Cutting Planned Parenthood Would Increase Medicaid Births, C.B.O. Says

[Teddy B 17,252]

2 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

preach.

The nonchalant way people approach this issue as if old people are a burden, ticks me off.

[Teddy B 17,252]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

It doesn't allow them, it forces them. I didn't say the same safety nets available for the poor anyway should not be available for them. I just don't believe the government should decide for you when, where, why and how much to invest for your own retirement, I find that to be immoral and profoundly anti freedom and anti American.

Great, like I said you're in charge of what to do with the bodies.

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, Teddy B said:

You adjust the amount that people pay in to equal the amount that is being paid out and you pass a law that prevents that money from being used for any other purpose. It would be nice to hire a financial team that would be in charge of investing the monies paid in so it would yield the highest pay outs.

So your solution would be to force people to pay even more into a ponzi scheme? Don't we already pay enough? Add single payer which some support on top of that, soon enough you won't need a 50% bracket, you'll end up paying that much anyway.

 

To be clear I'm not saying those that put money into the system already should not get it back, I am suggesting that instead of forcing people to give the government money so it can manage it for them, we educate them and teach them A. The importance of investing for retirement and B. How to manage it for themselves should they choose to. If you explained the importance to most people I guarantee you would not end up with as many millions on the streets as you claim. Education is key, not coercion. 

[Teddy B 17,252]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

So your solution would be to force people to pay even more into a ponzi scheme? Don't we already pay enough? Add single payer which some support on top of that, soon enough you won't need a 50% bracket, you'll end up paying that much anyway.

 

To be clear I'm not saying those that put money into the system already should not get it back, I am suggesting that instead of forcing people to give the government money so it can manage it for them, we educate them and teach them A. The importance of investing for retirement and B. How to manage it for themselves should they choose to. If you explained the importance to most people I guarantee you would not end up with as many millions on the streets as you claim. Education is key, not coercion. 

It's not a ponzi scheme, it's a support system for elderly people to live a somewhat normal and healthy life. Unlike a ponzi scheme, there is a payout for the investors with ss.

 

50% bracket? No, maybe around 30% like Canada, but at least everyone is taken care of for the most part.

[OriZ 3,165]

4 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

Great, like I said you're in charge of what to do with the bodies.

Why do you think there would be so many bodies? I'm honestly not so sure what you're huffin n puffin about  I just don't believe SS should be mandatory. I find nothing immoral about letting people be in control of their own lives and make their own choices. Why do some of you think the government should make all the choices for us because it "knows better" and needs to "save us from ourselves". Educate people, and they will make their own decisions. And if they fail, there are plenty of safety nets already in place.

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, Teddy B said:

It's not a ponzi scheme, it's a support system for elderly people to live a somewhat normal and healthy life. Unlike a ponzi scheme, there is a payout for the investors with ss.

 

50% bracket? No, maybe around 30% like Canada, but at least everyone is taken care of for the most part.

Man, young people literally believe there is a better chance they will see a UFO than get their payout. It's a slippery slope - where does it stop? Why not decide how much fast food one should be allowed to consume so they don't get sick and can't afford their bills and also end up on the street(or worse and then there's even more bodies)? The government is already making so many decisions for us, I happen to believe people should have the right to choose where to put their retirement money.

[Teddy B 17,252]

6 minutes ago, OriZ said:

So your solution would be to force people to pay even more into a ponzi scheme? Don't we already pay enough? Add single payer which some support on top of that, soon enough you won't need a 50% bracket, you'll end up paying that much anyway.

 

To be clear I'm not saying those that put money into the system already should not get it back, I am suggesting that instead of forcing people to give the government money so it can manage it for them, we educate them and teach them A. The importance of investing for retirement and B. How to manage it for themselves should they choose to. If you explained the importance to most people I guarantee you would not end up with as many millions on the streets as you claim. Education is key, not coercion. 

Most everyone I know including myself was taught and told the importance of saving for retirement many times by our teachers, parents and friends. The majority of people are still not prepared for retirement when the time comes. Most people do not grasp the concept of saving for retirement because they either can't afford it or think it's so far away that they don't have to worry about it until it's too late. No amount of education will prevent that.

[Teddy B 17,252]

4 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Why do you think there would be so many bodies? I'm honestly not so sure what you're huffin n puffin about  I just don't believe SS should be mandatory. I find nothing immoral about letting people be in control of their own lives and make their own choices. Why do some of you think the government should make all the choices for us because it "knows better" and needs to "save us from ourselves". Educate people, and they will make their own decisions. And if they fail, there are plenty of safety nets already in place.

What safety nets are in place for people, welfare? So instead of paying people social security, we'll just pay them welfare? You realize you just collapsed your own "choices have consequences" mantra and haven't saved one penny or changed one thing by eliminating ss and replacing it with welfare?

 

Do you even know why ss was enacted in the first place?

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, Teddy B said:

What safety nets are in place for people, welfare? So instead of paying people social security, we'll just pay them welfare? You realize you just collapsed your own "choices have consequences" mantra and haven't saved one penny or changed one thing by eliminating ss and replacing it with welfare?

 

Do you even know why ss was enacted in the first place?

I never in this thread suggested that I don't believe in helping poor people, even when I said choices have consequences all I was referring to(and clarified more than once) is the retirement portion of it. Yes, I know why SS was enacted, again where our disagreement lies is how many people will actually end up needing that help because they saved nothing for retirement. 

[OriZ 3,165]

14 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

Most everyone I know including myself was taught and told the importance of saving for retirement many times by our teachers, parents and friends. The majority of people are still not prepared for retirement when the time comes. Most people do not grasp the concept of saving for retirement because they either can't afford it or think it's so far away that they don't have to worry about it until it's too late. No amount of education will prevent that.

 

You can take what most people are being taught right now and throw it in the trash. I will never believe SS is a good thing, not when I know so many people who only got screwed over by it.  

[Teddy B 17,252]

2 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I never in this thread suggested that I don't believe in helping poor people, even when I said choices have consequences all I was referring to(and clarified more than once) is the retirement portion of it. Yes, I know why SS was enacted, again where our disagreement lies is how many people will actually end up needing that help because they saved nothing for retirement. 

We disagree on much more than that on this issue.

 

Over 40 million elderly people collect social security annually. 35% of those people rely on ss as their primary income.

 

[Teddy B 17,252]

3 minutes ago, OriZ said:

 

You can take what most people are being taught right now and throw it in the trash. I will never believe SS is a good thing, not when I know so many people who only got screwed over by it.  

Who has gotten screwed over by ss? To my knowledge payments are still being made.

[OriZ 3,165]

6 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

Who has gotten screwed over by ss? To my knowledge payments are still being made.

I gave one example about disability earlier, and there are many others. I'm sorry but when you have been paying into the system for over 20 years and can no longer work, just because you had a lapse in their determined timeframe for credits because you could not work for a different reason does not mean you should be ineligible to receive the benefits you paid for. There is so much wrong with this syetm, it's not even funny. And again I never said that those who currently collect SS should not continue to receive benefits they already paid for, quite to the contrary because one of my main issues with SS is so many people don't for many different reasons.

 

EDIT: Gotta go get some work done

Edited March 17, 2017 by OriZ

[Teddy B 17,252]

6 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I gave one example about disability earlier, and there are many others. I'm sorry but when you have been paying into the system for over 20 years and can no longer work, just because you had a lapse in their determined timeframe for credits because you could not work for a different reason does not mean you should be ineligible to receive the benefits you paid for. There is so much wrong with this syetm, it's not even funny. And again I never said that those who currently collect SS should not continue to receive benefits they already paid for, quite to the contrary because one of my main issues with SS is so many people don't for many different reasons.

 

EDIT: Gotta go get some work done

You and I are not talking about ss disability, we're talking about the retirement part of ss. People who are under retirement age and need or want ss disability payouts are a different ball game. The abuse of the ss system on the disability level is enormous, that part of the system needs a complete overhaul. SS disability has become an extension of unemployment benefits for many who can work but chose not to and there are far too many fraudulent cases of people who aren't truly disabled. The amount of fraud makes it very hard for the people who truly need the disability payments to get them.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Teddy B

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 hour ago, Teddy B said:

Haven't you heard? They die too! Everyone who isn't independently wealthy dies, it's a very simple system with extremely low overhead.

Wow you at work early. Wife kick you out ?  Its ST Pat's day no Fed Holiday ?