Does 221g always mean there will be a 2nd interview?

[MikeandThea 11]

We got a 221g for a new NBI. The CO told my girl that everything was fine except the NBI for the AKA and as soon as he got it from her via 2go, it was a done deal and would be approved. I got the impression that this could all be resolved by just sending in the document they requested and they'd issue the Visa. The issue is that her birth certificate name was wrong at birth and they couldnt afford to change it for 24 years. So the Embassy wanted a new NBI on the A.K.A for the incorrect name. No problem. My girl got it and sent it via 2go but the Embassy in Manila called her today and said she was scheduled for a 2nd interview on Dec 20 concerning the NBI issue. When asked if they received the new NBI that she sent 10 days ago, they said no. So, she has a new one to bring to the interview but I advised her to get another NBI to bring with her to the 2nd interview and send in another one via 2go at MOA with a letter explaining what happened. We're hoping they will approve the visa and cancel the 2nd interview. What are the chances of that happening?

Thanks

Edited December 13, 2016 by SalandJaz

[MarkPerry 488]

2nd interview is usually not required.

I suspect if they have her scheduled for the 20th, then it will not be cancelled. Even if they receive all the required documentation.

[Sagot 1,548]

We got a 221g for a new NBI. The CO told my girl that everything was fine except the NBI for the AKA and as soon as he got it from her via 2go, it was a done deal and would be approved. I got the impression that this could all be resolved by just sending in the document they requested and they'd issue the Visa. The issue is that her birth certificate name was wrong at birth and they couldnt afford to change it for 24 years. So the Embassy wanted a new NBI on the A.K.A for the incorrect name. No problem. My girl got it and sent it via 2go but the Embassy in Manila called her today and said she was scheduled for a 2nd interview on Dec 20 concerning the NBI issue. When asked if they received the new NBI that she sent 10 days ago, they said no. So, she has a new one to bring to the interview but I advised her to get another NBI to bring with her to the 2nd interview and send in another one via 2go at MOA with a letter explaining what happened. We're hoping they will approve the visa and cancel the 2nd interview. What are the chances of that happening?

Thanks

Did your fiancee print out a copy of the 221g to bring to NBI when requesting the new NBI with AKA? Hand the 221g to the NBI personal, they will make sure the document gets to the embassy.

New NBI must be delivered to the embassy directly from NBI, not from your fiancee.

[MikeandThea 11]

Yes, she did give NBI a copy of the 221g to show them what she needed. They joked with her and said it would be ready on Dec 6th, a week away, and that she should send chocolates from America. She went there on Dec 6 to get it, then sent it to the embassy via 2go as per the instructions in the 221 g letter.

[Sagot 1,548]

Yes, she did give NBI a copy of the 221g to show them what she needed. They joked with her and said it would be ready on Dec 6th, a week away, and that she should send chocolates from America. She went there on Dec 6 to get it, then sent it to the embassy via 2go as per the instructions in the 221 g letter.

The 221g said for her to take the NBI to 2GO? That is different.. Documents are normally picked up once a week and delivered to the embassy from NBI.

[teddy k 35]

Hi everyone. From what I know is that on every Friday NBI sends out to the Embassy

[Stevephoto 224]

Hopefully everything will be resolved on the 20th. Have her bring all of the notes to and from the embassy along with the 221g and NBI to streamline the process as much as possible. It sounds annoying, but relatively minor. Good luck.

[Sagot 1,548]

Hi everyone. From what I know is that on every Friday NBI sends out to the Embassy

Exactly. It would be nice to see that 221g email.

[MikeandThea 11]

The Embassy got the NBI they asked for but then they called Jaz and said to be at the interview with it or with out it but to bring additional proof that she is who she says she is and they asked for the court order where she changed her name and gender. I had forgotten that her original BC had her name and gender wrong. Her father fixed it all in 2012 and her BC says that it was changed and certified that her name and gender are now correct.

At her 2nd interview yesterday, they grilled her for four hours about her Birth Certificate and told her they want to see a court order proving she is a female. However, Republic Act 10172 was passed in 2012 removing the requirement for a court order and it can all be done at the local Municipal Civil Registrar, which is what she did. I pointed this out in an email to the embassy but I just sent it 2 hours ago and don't expect to hear back from them until tomorrow at the soonest.

Also, they did not issue Jaz any paper or email requesting any documentation. It was verbal only that she get a court order. She said the Filipino Consul tried to explain to the American Consul how the law works but the American Consul refused to listen and insisted on a court order even though that is not how the law for changing anything on a Philippine BC works.

I'm sure they are suspicious of something but I don't know what. We've given them everything they asked for except a court order which cannot be done. I don't understand why they are asking for that when they should know its not proper procedure. And, I'm really wondering why they didn't issue another 221 (g) asking for it. The first 221 (g) asked specifically for an NBI for the AKA. This time, its just a verbal request for a document that does not and cannot be gotten under the RA No. 10172.

Any ideas?

[MikeandThea 11]

Exactly. It would be nice to see that 221g email.

Here it is...

[Sagot 1,548]

The Embassy got the NBI they asked for but then they called Jaz and said to be at the interview with it or with out it but to bring additional proof that she is who she says she is and they asked for the court order where she changed her name and gender. I had forgotten that her original BC had her name and gender wrong. Her father fixed it all in 2012 and her BC says that it was changed and certified that her name and gender are now correct.

At her 2nd interview yesterday, they grilled her for four hours about her Birth Certificate and told her they want to see a court order proving she is a female. However, Republic Act 10172 was passed in 2012 removing the requirement for a court order and it can all be done at the local Municipal Civil Registrar, which is what she did. I pointed this out in an email to the embassy but I just sent it 2 hours ago and don't expect to hear back from them until tomorrow at the soonest.

Also, they did not issue Jaz any paper or email requesting any documentation. It was verbal only that she get a court order. She said the Filipino Consul tried to explain to the American Consul how the law works but the American Consul refused to listen and insisted on a court order even though that is not how the law for changing anything on a Philippine BC works.

I'm sure they are suspicious of something but I don't know what. We've given them everything they asked for except a court order which cannot be done. I don't understand why they are asking for that when they should know its not proper procedure. And, I'm really wondering why they didn't issue another 221 (g) asking for it. The first 221 (g) asked specifically for an NBI for the AKA. This time, its just a verbal request for a document that does not and cannot be gotten under the RA No. 10172.

Any ideas?

Best I can suggest is get a notarized letter from the local registry where the BC was corrected, basically stating the process was complete to correct an "typographical error" in the originally BC and that all of this was done without a court order per Republic Act 10172, passed in 2012. I also suggest printing out a copy of RA 10172 to include.

Not sure what the embassy is suspicious about, the medical verifies the gender of your fiancee. Must be a new CO ... welcome to the Philippines...

[MikeandThea 11]

Best I can suggest is get a notarized letter from the local registry where the BC was corrected, basically stating the process was complete to correct an "typographical error" in the originally BC and that all of this was done without a court order per Republic Act 10172, passed in 2012. I also suggest printing out a copy of RA 10172 to include.

Not sure what the embassy is suspicious about, the medical verifies the gender of your fiancee. Must be a new CO ... welcome to the Philippines...

Thanks Sagot for your opinion. Jaz is so upset she can barely speak. She is emotionally exhausted and the 4 hour interrogation has just about drained all hope from her. I'm still getting bits and pieces of what happened and until I can get a full understanding of what exactly the Consular wants, and why, I can't do much but I have an idea of where this is going to go.

Jaz said that they made her write a written statement saying she will 'fix' this problem, made her sign it then dismissed her without giving her a copy. Does that not sound strange to you? I think you may be correct that this CO is new and clueless and I'm hoping a senior CO will see what is going on and set her straight.

I think what I need now, is to study how others have fought the Manila Embassy over questionable issues like this and won with logic and correctness. The Embassy is just an extension of the State Department which means its just another huge bureaucratic institution made up of imperfect humans many of which think they are perfect and the rest a combination of various human characteristics that cause grief like this because they get irrational hunches, feelings and suspicions caused by a desire to stop fraud but don't really know it when they see it. So, in order to look like they are somehow competent and have 'insight' into hunches they cannot prove, they invent things like this hoping the applicant will just give up.

They have picked the wrong couple for that. I realize that over time, an experienced CO will have handled enough cases that they can easily see fraud and deal with it but here, none exists and to add credibility to your idea that this CO is inexperienced is the way its being handled. She ( the CO ) first asks for one thing, and when she gets it, she asks for something else, as if trying to trip us up. If we provide that and she asks for something different, then she is grasping at straws, convinced that Jaz and I are trying to cleverly slip past her with a fake Birth Certificate, NBI or some other document.

There are literally thousands of VISA applicants per year that have the exact same problem and yet the Embassy lets them have a VISA because they can see there was no intention of fraud. I don't see why they think we are different but as has been said, the CO can decide to deny the VISA but has to give a good reason for it. Will the Embassy deal with me at all since I am the Petitioner? I have already sent and email of inquiry about this latest interview and their request. Or, will they only deal with Jaz?

I'm expecting a denial and at least if that happens, I would expect a reason and that can be appealed and/or resolved to the satisfaction of a reasonable CO. Where would I look for information on how to spar with them and make them see that we are not going to give up? I've attached a copy of the email I sent. Thanks again for your input.

[Sagot 1,548]

Thanks Sagot for your opinion. Jaz is so upset she can barely speak. She is emotionally exhausted and the 4 hour interrogation has just about drained all hope from her. I'm still getting bits and pieces of what happened and until I can get a full understanding of what exactly the Consular wants, and why, I can't do much but I have an idea of where this is going to go.

Jaz said that they made her write a written statement saying she will 'fix' this problem, made her sign it then dismissed her without giving her a copy. Does that not sound strange to you? I think you may be correct that this CO is new and clueless and I'm hoping a senior CO will see what is going on and set her straight.

I think what I need now, is to study how others have fought the Manila Embassy over questionable issues like this and won with logic and correctness. The Embassy is just an extension of the State Department which means its just another huge bureaucratic institution made up of imperfect humans many of which think they are perfect and the rest a combination of various human characteristics that cause grief like this because they get irrational hunches, feelings and suspicions caused by a desire to stop fraud but don't really know it when they see it. So, in order to look like they are somehow competent and have 'insight' into hunches they cannot prove, they invent things like this hoping the applicant will just give up.

They have picked the wrong couple for that. I realize that over time, an experienced CO will have handled enough cases that they can easily see fraud and deal with it but here, none exists and to add credibility to your idea that this CO is inexperienced is the way its being handled. She ( the CO ) first asks for one thing, and when she gets it, she asks for something else, as if trying to trip us up. If we provide that and she asks for something different, then she is grasping at straws, convinced that Jaz and I are trying to cleverly slip past her with a fake Birth Certificate, NBI or some other document.

There are literally thousands of VISA applicants per year that have the exact same problem and yet the Embassy lets them have a VISA because they can see there was no intention of fraud. I don't see why they think we are different but as has been said, the CO can decide to deny the VISA but has to give a good reason for it. Will the Embassy deal with me at all since I am the Petitioner? I have already sent and email of inquiry about this latest interview and their request. Or, will they only deal with Jaz?

I'm expecting a denial and at least if that happens, I would expect a reason and that can be appealed and/or resolved to the satisfaction of a reasonable CO. Where would I look for information on how to spar with them and make them see that we are not going to give up? I've attached a copy of the email I sent. Thanks again for your input.

CO is a woman? Oh my, I wonder if it is "her"? There was a CO back when we were there, she was a bear, yelling at the Filipina even (we were at the next window over) ... I continually heard reports, on and off, like that over the years.

How do you fight the embassy? Can't. He who has the GOLD makes the rules... the visa is the gold. Not even your congressman or senator has power of them. Oh in writing there is a way, and there is a fee of about $600 if memory serves, but you have to wait for the case file to be returned to NVC/USCIS...

... If the embassy denies. (most that hit this wall let the petition/visa application die then get married and pursue a spousal visa)

I would still approach this with a notarized letter from the municipal register as I noted earlier.