Minneapolis Muslim Cashiers refuse to scan pork products

[peezey 0]

Its a far cry from refusing to handle certain products at a supermarket (resulting in no noticeable delay to the customer) and trampling women's rights. It's the "at will" part of the contract (much as I don't agree with the "at will" clause) that will probably sort this out. They're not refusing service point blank like those Somali tax-drivers..

This woman took a job because she needed a job. She may or may not have thought about the inventory of pork in the store. She has by this time scanned countless products with pork ingredients, and if she is an immigrant, probably had no idea. However, she sees a package of bacon and does recognize it as pork and stops short and asks the customer to handle it for her. She freaked out a bit. Big deal. Does that mean she will again? We don't know. But we've all been in a situation where things were just fine then something happened we didn't necessarily expect, not because it was a curve ball thrown our way but because we just didn't think of it until it was right there in front of our faces. Are new muslim immigrants somehow supposed to be any different than the rest of us when faced with something they are unsure how to deal with?

We have a group in the county who sends out mentally challenged adults to work in a chain of hardware stores here. These are the greatest people, hardest working, you'll ever meet. But sometimes they say the darndest things. Things you aren't supposed to say to customers. Do you get mad? Do you call the local paper? Or do you see it for what it is and move on?

There are great cashiers and totally rude cashiers, and they have been rude cashiers for 25 years. They'll never get fired. They're union and they don't care. They'll roll their eyes at you if you take too long putting your money away and getting the heck out of their line. But do you call the paper? No. You just do everything to avoid her line if you're feeling especially slow that day.

The fact this bacon scanning thing made the news is insulting to journalists and publishers everywhere, not to mention an insult to subscription paying customers of the paper.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Incrementalism is fine as long as there is a benefit (or doesn't hurt) to society. When you have incrementalism that involves a religion that tramples woman's rights that's a bad thing IMHO.

No one is forcing them to work there. They are 'at-will' employees.

Its a far cry from refusing to handle certain products at a supermarket (resulting in no noticeable delay to the customer) and trampling women's rights. It's the "at will" part of the contract (much as I don't agree with the "at will" clause) that will probably sort this out. They're not refusing service point blank like those Somali tax-drivers..

aka incremental

[mawilson 2,133]

Did you all realize that Indonesia (230 Million) is the 4th largest country by population, just behind the USA (300 million)? Yet, their murder rate is 1/50th of the rate here? Now that is scary.

Yes...... Indonesia is the safest place on earth. You're much more likely to die of starvation or get killed by a tsunami....

(How many people were killed by the last tsunami? 200,000?)

[Caladan 19]

Incremental isn't the same as "first they refused to scan my bacon, then they beheaded my daughter for not wearing a veil."

Have a little perspective. America is strong enough and diverse enough to handle nearly everything, and we've got this cool separation of church and state bit to keep out religious courts.

This country has a long history of accomodating some beliefs, tossing the ones it doesn't like, and incorporating the rest in so seamlessly that future generations think that it's just part of being American to have Columbus Day (an Italian-American holiday) and St. Patrick's Day parades, and to eat Chinese food in Chinatown and to eat bagels and to take yoga and get acupuncture and drink green tea. We didn't turn into Ireland or Italy or China or Israel or India or Japan. We didn't import the violent or repressive tendencies of those cultures (preferring to have our own American homemade style of violence, I guess), and we won't with Somalia, either. We have been pretty good about picking and respecting the good.

Worst case here is a couple of Muslim grocery stores after Target fires a few cashiers.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Incrementalism is fine as long as there is a benefit (or doesn't hurt) to society. When you have incrementalism that involves a religion that tramples woman's rights that's a bad thing IMHO.

No one is forcing them to work there. They are 'at-will' employees.

Its a far cry from refusing to handle certain products at a supermarket (resulting in no noticeable delay to the customer) and trampling women's rights. It's the "at will" part of the contract (much as I don't agree with the "at will" clause) that will probably sort this out. They're not refusing service point blank like those Somali tax-drivers..

aka incremental

Which apparently is "fine so long as it doesn't hurt society", which is hard to really quantify - unless its specifically the fact that its 'muslims' who are doing this. As pointed out above - how is this different to other people whose faith gets in the way of their doing their jobs? It's not new or "revolutionary".

Edited March 17, 2007 by erekose

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Nope, and no one on this entire thread has said that the store couldn't fire them for not performing their duty. I think the store can fire them; I also think this is really not a big deal, given that I've had longer delays because the cashier can't tell an eggplant from an artichoke.

(More incrementalism fun: the McDonald's Filet-O-Fish sandwich. It was invented to attract the Catholic market - not eating meat on Fridays. It's an attack on the American institution -- the hamburger!)

I guess all I'm sayihg if the biggest thing I have to worry about with regard to importing a new culture is that some of them don't like handling pork, but obey the laws, are respectful citizens, and the like, I'm not too worried. And I'd rather society not be ninnies and run newspaper articles about the horror of middle America needing to wait 10 seconds at the cashier's, because I can't think of a better way to foster resentment in a small immigrant community than by people freaking out.

In terms of trampling women's rights,I'm far more worried about the American rightwing, which actually has power and influence, than I am a small Muslim minority.

Ten Percent Is Critical Mass

Professor Raphael Israeli, an expert on Islamic history from Hebrew University in Jerusalem, says that as the Muslim population of a nation increases, the risk of violence from that population increases. When Muslims reach 10% of the population, the violence explodes.

Speaking from Australia, Professor Israeli claims that Muslim immigrants manipulate Western values to take advantage of the hospitality and tolerance of Western countries. Says Professor Israeli, "Where there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence you are in trouble. If there is only 1 or 2 per cent they don't dare to do it - they don't have the backing of big communities. They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved. ... When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems. That is a general rule, so if it applies everywhere it applies in Australia."

Muslims are 1.5% of the population in Australia. Professor Israeli advocates capping Muslim immigration before their population reaches critical mass, as it has in France, with irreversible effects for the worst.

Professor Israeli said that in France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, it was already too late. There were regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country's political, economic and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/limit-...1405374552.html

Edited March 17, 2007 by LuckyStrike

[Ban Hammer 14,566]

I think it's the same thing. I am not really sure how I feel about the morning after pill, but if you are a pharmacist, you must be able to fulfil your job absent of your personal beliefs.

It's the same thing, and it's bullsh!t.

I wanna get a job and then say it's against my beliefs to actually DO anything.

sorry, i already have that job

And if eating pork and drinking alcohol is what it "means" to you to live in America, I'm embarrassed for you.

if that is how he measures freedom, what's it to you?

[peezey 0]

That's not a biased "study" at all.

Now we're the same as France and Australia? I've never heard anyone want to claim that before.

Edited March 17, 2007 by peezey

[Caladan 19]

There are what, depending on how you count, anywhere from one million to seven million Muslims in the U.S.? (No one's sure because it depends on whether you count all immigrants from Muslim countries as Muslim, or include Nation of Islam, etc.) Ten percent of 300 million is 30 million. For comparison's sake, there are about seventy million American Catholics.

So, we'd need another twenty-three million Muslims in order for your fear of immediate social breakdown to materialize, and it would have to happen quickly; we're good at assmilating foreigners.

I'm thinking we can afford not to have panic attacks over bad cashiers and the Union will stand.

[Ban Hammer 14,566]

The fact this bacon scanning thing made the news is insulting to journalists and publishers everywhere, not to mention an insult to subscription paying customers of the paper.

why?

[William33 110]

Did you all realize that Indonesia (230 Million) is the 4th largest country by population, just behind the USA (300 million)? Yet, their murder rate is 1/50th of the rate here? Now that is scary.

Yes...... Indonesia is the safest place on earth. You're much more likely to die of starvation or get killed by a tsunami....

(How many people were killed by the last tsunami? 200,000?)

Who said that? Of course, being on the leading edge of the "ring of fire" (earthquake/volcano central) makes Indonesia dangerous. As far as starvation, you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Although poverty is a problem, the large majority of Indonesians eat well.

[mybackpages 0]

Nope, and no one on this entire thread has said that the store couldn't fire them for not performing their duty. I think the store can fire them; I also think this is really not a big deal, given that I've had longer delays because the cashier can't tell an eggplant from an artichoke.

(More incrementalism fun: the McDonald's Filet-O-Fish sandwich. It was invented to attract the Catholic market - not eating meat on Fridays. It's an attack on the American institution -- the hamburger!)

I guess all I'm sayihg if the biggest thing I have to worry about with regard to importing a new culture is that some of them don't like handling pork, but obey the laws, are respectful citizens, and the like, I'm not too worried. And I'd rather society not be ninnies and run newspaper articles about the horror of middle America needing to wait 10 seconds at the cashier's, because I can't think of a better way to foster resentment in a small immigrant community than by people freaking out.

In terms of trampling women's rights,I'm far more worried about the American rightwing, which actually has power and influence, than I am a small Muslim minority.

Ten Percent Is Critical Mass

Professor Raphael Israeli, an expert on Islamic history from Hebrew University in Jerusalem, says that as the Muslim population of a nation increases, the risk of violence from that population increases. When Muslims reach 10% of the population, the violence explodes.

Speaking from Australia, Professor Israeli claims that Muslim immigrants manipulate Western values to take advantage of the hospitality and tolerance of Western countries. Says Professor Israeli, "Where there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence you are in trouble. If there is only 1 or 2 per cent they don't dare to do it - they don't have the backing of big communities. They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved. ... When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems. That is a general rule, so if it applies everywhere it applies in Australia."

Muslims are 1.5% of the population in Australia. Professor Israeli advocates capping Muslim immigration before their population reaches critical mass, as it has in France, with irreversible effects for the worst.

Professor Israeli said that in France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, it was already too late. There were regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country's political, economic and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/limit-...1405374552.html

There is some faulty logic here. Is the violence in Frnce due to an increase in the Muslim poplation or rather due to the consequences of colonialization? It's more complicated than increases in the Muslim population equals increase in violence

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...Is the violence in Frnce due to an increase in the Muslim poplation or rather due to the consequences of colonialization? It's more complicated than increases in the Muslim population equals increase in violence

Neither accurate, as the fundamentals of the post-1815 French governmental and economic systems (and the mentality they engender) also play a big part.

Britain certainly had more colonies as a whole than France; these included the large Muslim-majority nations of Pakistan and Bangladesh (albeit, pre-Partition, parts of "British India") + ultra-large-minority-Muslim India (I had to count it, as it now has the single-largest Muslim population in the world) and Arab areas won by Allenby from Ottoman Empire (and then given away by TL Lawrence). But (noticeably), it was not hit by such riots.

[GaryC 7]

You don't get out much, do you? There are no kosher stores where I live but there is half an aisle of kosher goods at every large grocery store in CA. I'm quite certain this is the same for most chain stores in the US. Does this impose on you? I hardly think so since you didn't even know it exists!

I get out all the time. Now who is assuming? No the Kosher isle does not impose on me. Thats because I can still go to the pork part of the meat department and get what I want without some casher giving me a hard time about it. Having diversity in the products I chose to buy harms no one. Having my choices restricted because of someone that disagrees with it is. Sorry you don't see the difference.

[GaryC 7]

Who are you speaking to here? I'm not muslim. There's some old saying about assuming.....

And if eating pork and drinking alcohol is what it "means" to you to live in America, I'm embarrassed for you.

No, eating pork and drinking alcohol isn't what it means to me to live in America. Having the right to without someone giving me a hard time at the check out line is. Please try again. I am imbarrassed for your lack of understanding.