Working after arrival: Online job?

[Pheebs1201 269]

Hi, this has been really interesting!

It is a nightmare - all this grey area lol! I am actually talking to my boss next week and he said he will talk to the legal people in the company, I will let you know what comes up

Please do let me know what they say. Thank you

I'm a bit out of subject but what kind of job is it? I would looove to have an online job

I write descriptions of houses that are for sale in the UK and these are made into "audiotours" of the property, so prospective buyers can have a "tour" of the property online before making the trip to look at it in person. I love my job, it's so handy! Got me through university

This is terrible advice. Sorry, I'm not preaching here, nor do I care, but if your wife worked in the US under those circumstances before she had authorization, then I'm glad that it that didn't come back to haunt you.

If you are living in the US, are getting paid to do work, and you're not an employee of a foreign or domestic company, then by default you are self-employed in the US (regardless of whether you have officially set up a company in your name or not). Self-employed in the US = US Employment. There's no grey area here. That you are doing work for a foreign entity is irrelevant. YOUR employment is still US-based because in the eyes of the government you ARE working for a US company. It's just that in this case the "company" happens to be you and you are it's only employee. Go ahead and consult anyone at USCIS or any immigration lawyer and ask them if it will be okay for you to work as a self employed person in the US before getting your EAD. The answer will be an unequivocal 'No'. Like many other aspects of immigration, just because someone else was able to do it doesn't mean it's okay.

OP, feel free to take your chances. I realize that it's all really just semantics as far as who is getting paid for doing what for who and where, but your situation is very cut and dried as far as USCIS would be concerned. Sure, maybe nothing happens...maybe Immigration won't know, or even care...but you are potentially begging for trouble come AOS time if you do.

Thank you for your input and advice. I do understand where you are coming from. But the company is not my own, it is a UK based company which employs me to do the work, but I believe it is considered freelance as I am responsible for reporting my income (which fluctuates as work is inconsistent month to month) as they do not submit anything on my behalf? Am I making a grey area greyer?

[templeton 120]

Thank you for your input and advice. I do understand where you are coming from. But the company is not my own, it is a UK based company which employs me to do the work, but I believe it is considered freelance as I am responsible for reporting my income (which fluctuates as work is inconsistent month to month) as they do not submit anything on my behalf? Am I making a grey area greyer?

Not grey at all in this case. I understand the UK company is not your own. The actual location of the entitiy you do the work for doesn't make any difference. If you are not an official employee of that foreign company, then any work you do for them while living in the US would be considered US-based self-employment. That's not allowed.

[Pheebs1201 269]

Not grey at all in this case. I understand the UK company is not your own. The actual location of the entitiy you do the work for doesn't make any difference. If you are not an official employee of that foreign company, then any work you do for them while living in the US would be considered US-based self-employment. That's not allowed.

Okay thank you, I understand now. Well that certainly seems to have cleared things up! Fingers crossed my permission to work will come through quickly (when the time comes) and I won't have to stop work for too long.

Thank you for everyones help and patience!

[Teddy B 17,251]

Not really true. Freelance workers who spend more than 3 months on US soil are considered "self-employed" and must report all earnings to the IRS and immigration. To avoid doing this is tax evasion. Whilst working online for an overseas company is definitely grey area, it is less so once you're an "independent contractor" as at that point, you're considered self-employed, and all self-employed income is now considered US Based income.

I'm a freelancer, and I work for international companies building websites and applications. I've had enough headaches with the US tax laws to know how insanely inane and pedantic they can be about getting their money.

If a freelancer chooses to work for a non-us based company and have the money deposited into a non-us bank account, whilst attempting to immigrate to the US, don't you think that would raise some red flags come AOS time when you're supposed to report all earnings and they start checking up on things? The US has a very long reach when it comes to immigration and they scrutinize everything. I'm pretty sure if the beneficiary was receiving paychecks the foreign government would have knowledge of this and report thus to the US government when the AOS time came around.

No flags were raised, no questions were asked and approval was given by Border Patrol for my wife to work remotely while in the US as a tourist. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but it didn't apply in my wife's case nor does it apply to the op.

This is terrible advice. Sorry, I'm not preaching here, nor do I care, but if your wife worked in the US under those circumstances before she had authorization, then I'm glad that it that didn't come back to haunt you.

If you are living in the US, are getting paid to do work, and you're not an employee of a foreign or domestic company, then by default you are self-employed in the US (regardless of whether you have officially set up a company in your name or not). Self-employed in the US = US Employment. There's no grey area here. That you are doing work for a foreign entity is irrelevant. YOUR employment is still US-based because in the eyes of the government you ARE working for a US company. It's just that in this case the "company" happens to be you and you are it's only employee. Go ahead and consult anyone at USCIS or any immigration lawyer and ask them if it will be okay for you to work as a self employed person in the US before getting your EAD. The answer will be an unequivocal 'No'. Like many other aspects of immigration, just because someone else was able to do it doesn't mean it's okay.

OP, feel free to take your chances. I realize that it's all really just semantics as far as who is getting paid for doing what for who and where, but your situation is very cut and dried as far as USCIS would be concerned. Sure, maybe nothing happens...maybe Immigration won't know, or even care...but you are potentially begging for trouble come AOS time if you do.

My wife was allowed entry as a tourist in B2 status which is up to 6 months stay and was given permission to work remotely in Canada by the US Border Patrol. Whether self employed or employed by another company has nothing to do with those stipulations. The two criteria that come into play are whether you are taking a job away from a US worker and whether you are getting paid in US funds. If there are distinct provisions that say otherwise, I would be happy to see wording from an official gov't site stating that. We consulted our accountant when it came to be tax time and was told that as long as she had paid taxes in Canada on the money she earned up until she received her greencard, she would not need to claim that income in the US. Our accountant prepared our taxes and put his name on them, I doubt he would do so if he wasn't confident in what he was doing.

To the op, you are entering as a K-1 and are considered to be work authorized immediately. I do think you need to ask the POE Officer for that stamp in your passport. So working remotely for you should not be a question at all.

[Pheebs1201 269]

No flags were raised, no questions were asked and approval was given by Border Patrol for my wife to work remotely while in the US as a tourist. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but it didn't apply in my wife's case nor does it apply to the op.

My wife was allowed entry as a tourist in B2 status which is up to 6 months stay and was given permission to work remotely in Canada by the US Border Patrol. Whether self employed or employed by another company has nothing to do with those stipulations. The two criteria that come into play are whether you are taking a job away from a US worker and whether you are getting paid in US funds. If there are distinct provisions that say otherwise, I would be happy to see wording from an official gov't site stating that. We consulted our accountant when it came to be tax time and was told that as long as she had paid taxes in Canada on the money she earned up until she received her greencard, she would not need to claim that income in the US. Our accountant prepared our taxes and put his name on them, I doubt he would do so if he wasn't confident in what he was doing.

To the op, you are entering as a K-1 and are considered to be work authorized immediately. I do think you need to ask the POE Officer for that stamp in your passport. So working remotely for you should not be a question at all.

It seems like there is a lot of conflicting opinions regarding whether this is legal or not.

I still don't really understand how they can object to you holding a foreign position where you are paid in foreign currency, as you said it does not affect anyone in the US.

I think it essentially boils down to this: working remotely is a fairly new concept and there are no hard and fast rules regarding this. Perhaps something they need to consider addressing imminently!

How convenient for me

[Teddy B 17,251]

It seems like there is a lot of conflicting opinions regarding whether this is legal or not.

I still don't really understand how they can object to you holding a foreign position where you are paid in foreign currency, as you said it does not affect anyone in the US.

I think it essentially boils down to this: working remotely is a fairly new concept and there are no hard and fast rules regarding this. Perhaps something they need to consider addressing imminently!

How convenient for me

There are a lot of threads on VJ on this topic. I've put a link to them below. If you read them you will find the general consensus here is that working remotely is allowed. You will also find there are quite a few VJers who have done so. To my knowledge there is no written law against it.

http://www.visajourney.com/search/index.php?cx=007424365766759747816%3Auy9flr-th5y&cof=FORID%3A10&q=working+remotely&sa=Search&siteurl=www.visajourney.com%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F521548-working-after-arrival-online-job%2Fpage-3%23entry7329652&ref=www.visajourney.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsearch%26do%3Duser_activity%26mid%3D129259&ss=3631j1234033j16

Edited November 7, 2014 by Teddy B

[Pheebs1201 269]

There are a lot of threads on VJ on this topic. I've put a link to them below. If you read them you will find the general consensus here is that working remotely is allowed. You will also find there are quite a few VJers who have done so. To my knowledge there is no written law against it.

http://www.visajourney.com/search/index.php?cx=007424365766759747816%3Auy9flr-th5y&cof=FORID%3A10&q=working+remotely&sa=Search&siteurl=www.visajourney.com%2Fforums%2Ftopic%2F521548-working-after-arrival-online-job%2Fpage-3%23entry7329652&ref=www.visajourney.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsearch%26do%3Duser_activity%26mid%3D129259&ss=3631j1234033j16

Thank you! Much appreciated!

[templeton 120]

No flags were raised, no questions were asked and approval was given by Border Patrol for my wife to work remotely while in the US as a tourist. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but it didn't apply in my wife's case nor does it apply to the op.

My wife was allowed entry as a tourist in B2 status which is up to 6 months stay and was given permission to work remotely in Canada by the US Border Patrol. Whether self employed or employed by another company has nothing to do with those stipulations. The two criteria that come into play are whether you are taking a job away from a US worker and whether you are getting paid in US funds. If there are distinct provisions that say otherwise, I would be happy to see wording from an official gov't site stating that. We consulted our accountant when it came to be tax time and was told that as long as she had paid taxes in Canada on the money she earned up until she received her greencard, she would not need to claim that income in the US. Our accountant prepared our taxes and put his name on them, I doubt he would do so if he wasn't confident in what he was doing.

To the op, you are entering as a K-1 and are considered to be work authorized immediately. I do think you need to ask the POE Officer for that stamp in your passport. So working remotely for you should not be a question at all.

Okay, please stop. Whether or not your wife was allowed to work with her B2 visa makes no difference. That's not what the OP is immigrating with so why would you assume the same rules apply?

And no, K-1's are absolutely NOT work-authorized immediately, which is the whole point to the OP's dilemma. They must either wait until their green card is issued, or at least get the Employment Authorization Card in the meantime, which usually takes 2 - 3 months after filing for AoS.

[Pheebs1201 269]

Okay, please stop. Whether or not your wife was allowed to work with her B2 visa makes no difference. That's not what the OP is immigrating with so why would you assume the same rules apply?

And no, K-1's are absolutely NOT work-authorized immediately, which is the whole point to the OP's dilemma. They must either wait until their green card is issued, or at least get the Employment Authorization Card in the meantime, which usually takes 2 - 3 months after filing for AoS.

This is definitely true, I know I am not authorized to work immediately.

Ahh, this is all so confusing! I think the better to be safe than sorry approach might be my best bet, unless I can afford to seek legal advice.

[Teddy B 17,251]

Okay, please stop. Whether or not your wife was allowed to work with her B2 visa makes no difference. That's not what the OP is immigrating with so why would you assume the same rules apply?

And no, K-1's are absolutely NOT work-authorized immediately, which is the whole point to the OP's dilemma. They must either wait until their green card is issued, or at least get the Employment Authorization Card in the meantime, which usually takes 2 - 3 months after filing for AoS.

You are correct in that she is not immediately authorized to work, that did change about 3 years ago. I was reading old info on that.

Permission to Work

After admission, your fiancé(e) may immediately apply for permission to work by filing a Form I-765, Application for Employment Authorization with the USCIS Service Center having jurisdiction over your place of residence. Any work authorization based on a nonimmigrant fiancé (e) visa would be valid for only 90 days after entry. However, your fiancé (e) would also be eligible to apply for an extended work authorization at the same time as he or she files for permanent residence. In this case, your fiancé(e) would file Form I-765 together with Form I-485 as soon as you marry.

Your condescending attitude is getting old. The op can work remotely while waiting for her greencard. Either show me something official in writing that states she cannot or give it a rest. I have first hand experience with this issue along with many others on this board, do you?

I found this post in regards to working remotely and it certainly applies here.

I did it, and so did a lot of others. It's not illegal. Though you'll find many on VJ who will argue the point. Some feel they are experts in things which they have no expertise or background in. Suffice it to say they are wrong and don't even bother arguing the point.

The EAD only authorizes work for an American employer. The US has no jurisdiction for authorizing employment for a Canadian-based company. Just make sure the Canadian company knows he's a non-resident so he gets taxed appropriately, then claim that income in both your US and Canadian tax return. Easy peasy.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Teddy B

[Pheebs1201 269]

I think both viewpoints are supported with valid reasoning. I'm not sure debating it further will achieve anything. If I manage to obtain a definite answer either way I will be sure to update this thread.

Thank you again to everyone who responded and tried to help me with this query! I very much appreciate it.

[Teddy B 17,251]

I think both viewpoints are supported with valid reasoning. I'm not sure debating it further will achieve anything. If I manage to obtain a definite answer either way I will be sure to update this thread.

Thank you again to everyone who responded and tried to help me with this query! I very much appreciate it.

Please do ask the POE officer upon your entry to the states and report back with your findings.

Good luck!

[templeton 120]

Sorry, OP. I've tried. Teddy B doesn't comprehend that working while self-employed - which is what you'd be considered in the eyes of the US government as a freelancer - in the US is still considered US employment...whether it's doing something remotely for a foreign company or not. As you know, that's not allowed as a K-1 until you get your EAD. End of story. And yes, I do have first hand experience in this subject.

[Pheebs1201 269]

Please do ask the POE officer upon your entry to the states and report back with your findings.

Good luck!

I will do my best, thank you for your help!

Sorry, OP. I've tried. Teddy B doesn't comprehend that working while self-employed - which is what you'd be considered in the eyes of the US government as a freelancer - in the US is still considered US employment...whether it's doing something remotely for a foreign company or not. As you know, that's not allowed as a K-1 until you get your EAD. End of story. And yes, I do have first hand experience in this subject.

Thank you for all your help!

I hope that they make more specific laws regarding working remotely in the near future so that others are not left with any doubt as to what they can and cannot do.

[d3adc0d3 186]

No flags were raised, no questions were asked and approval was given by Border Patrol for my wife to work remotely while in the US as a tourist. I'm not sure what you're referring to, but it didn't apply in my wife's case nor does it apply to the op.

Your wife came in on a B2, not a K1. She was not intending to immigrate and from what you've described she was not a freelancer, she was working remotely for a company in which she was hired full time. Not a contractor. These are two very different situations.

My wife was allowed entry as a tourist in B2 status which is up to 6 months stay and was given permission to work remotely in Canada by the US Border Patrol. Whether self employed or employed by another company has nothing to do with those stipulations. The two criteria that come into play are whether you are taking a job away from a US worker and whether you are getting paid in US funds. If there are distinct provisions that say otherwise, I would be happy to see wording from an official gov't site stating that. We consulted our accountant when it came to be tax time and was told that as long as she had paid taxes in Canada on the money she earned up until she received her greencard, she would not need to claim that income in the US. Our accountant prepared our taxes and put his name on them, I doubt he would do so if he wasn't confident in what he was doing.

This is because she was on a B2, not a K1, and had no concerns of AOS, and if my previous understanding is correct, she was a full time employee of a foreign company, not a self-employed contractor on U.S. soil.

To the op, you are entering as a K-1 and are considered to be work authorized immediately. I do think you need to ask the POE Officer for that stamp in your passport. So working remotely for you should not be a question at all.

WRONG! A K1 is an entry visa, you are MOST DEFINITELY NOT authorized to work immediately. You will recieve a SSC that says "AUTHORIZED TO WORK WITH EAD", meaning every single K1 visa holder must Adjust their status and file for the EAD in order to be authorized to work in the U.S. Without the EAD you will be working illegally and risk being deported.

travel.gov says DIRECTLY:

After admission, your fiancé(e) may immediately apply for permission to work by filing a Form I-765, Application for Employment Authorization with the USCIS Service Center having jurisdiction over your place of residence. Any work authorization based on a nonimmigrant fiancé (e) visa would be valid for only 90 days after entry. However, your fiancé (e) would also be eligible to apply for an extended work authorization at the same time as he or she files for permanent residence. In this case, your fiancé(e) would file Form I-765 together with Form I-485 as soon as you marry.

[source]

No use in applying for an EAD since they are not typically issued within the timeframe the the I-94 expires, so you'll just be throwing away the $400+.

[source 1] [source 2]

(6) An alien admitted to the United States as a nonimmigrant fiancé or fiancee pursuant to section 101(a)(15)(K)(i) of the Act, or an alien admitted as a child of such alien, for the period of admission in that status, as evidenced by an employment authorization document issued by the Service; (Revised 8/14/01; 66 FR 42587 )

[source]

§ Sec. 274a.5 Use of labor through contract. (Section revised effective 11/28/09;74 FR 55725 )

Any person or entity who uses a contract, subcontract, or exchange entered into, renegotiated, or extended after November 6, 1986 (or, with respect to the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, after the transition program effective date as defined in 8 CFR 1.1 ), to obtain the labor or services of an alien in the United States knowing that the alien is an unauthorized alien with respect to performing such labor or services, shall be considered to have hired the alien for employment in the United States in violation of section 274A(a)(1)(A) of the Act.

[source]

Hope that helps you understand better.

Edited November 7, 2014 by d3adc0d3