Mormon Church Admits For First Time That Founder Joseph Smith Had A 14-Year-Old Bride

[GandD 5,966]

Oh come on now. Rlogan never said it's how it should be today. He simply pointed out that was the way it was done back then. Which is true.

And when you consider all of us today came from Noah's family... Oh the horror of incest!! And yet, it was the norm in ancient times.

And he said children are coddled from sex. Something I'm hoping he will clarify.

[scandal 951]

It is so interesting that in the age of increasing acceptance of gays, lesbians, plural relationships, etc. that the opposite has occurred with youth - the age of consent has steadily been raised as the bar is lowered for everyone else.

I think this is a false comparison.

The trend has been to offer consenting adults increasing freedom - to treat them as citizens in a free society, able to exercise the liberty to live as they choose.

But when it comes to members of our society who cannot offer free consent, society has stepped in to protect them from predation.

Hence, we increasingly have come to understand that adults capable of consent should be allowed to choose who to love and marry, which substances to ingest or inhale, which "obscene" content they should be allowed to view in the privacy of their own home, etc.

However when it comes to children, the mentally disabled or those with degenerative diseases affecting cognition and ability to consent, we've stepped in to regulate and restrict, in the name of protection of those who cannot necessarily protect themselves. Hence we have child labor laws, mandatory education laws, and of course we don't allow children to be victimized sexually or physically by predatory adults.

Nothing inconsistent here at all.

[GandD 5,966]

Got it. But it wouldn't disgust you so if you lived back when it was the norm.

Who knows? How could I answer that? Back then women couldn't own businesses, property, or vote. White men were legally allowed to rape female slaves. What used to be allowed does not get a pass because "that's the way things were" Those people were wrong. They abused women's and girl's rights and controlled their lives.

I think this is a false comparison.

The trend has been to offer consenting adults increasing freedom - to treat them as citizens in a free society, able to exercise the liberty to live as they choose.

But when it comes to members of our society who cannot offer free consent, society has stepped in to protect them from predation.

Hence, we increasingly have come to understand that adults capable of consent should be allowed to choose who to love and marry, which substances to ingest or inhale, which "obscene" content they should be allowed to view in the privacy of their own home, etc.

However when it comes to children, the mentally disabled or those with degenerative diseases affecting cognition and ability to consent, we've stepped in to regulate and restrict, in the name of protection of those who cannot necessarily protect themselves. Hence we have child labor laws, mandatory education laws, and of course we don't allow children to be victimized sexually or physically by predatory adults.

Nothing inconsistent here at all.

Dead on. Consenting adults is the key phrase.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Who knows? How could I answer that? Back then women couldn't own businesses, property, or vote. White men were legally allowed to rape female slaves. What used to be allowed does not get a pass because "that's the way things were" Those people were wrong. They abused women's and girl's rights and controlled their lives.

Dead on. Consenting adults is the key phrase.

Not arguing any of that. All I was attempting to point out is that olé Mr. Smith's actions were not out of character for the times.

[GandD 5,966]

Not arguing any of that. All I was attempting to point out is that olé Mr. Smith's actions were not out of character for the times.

Its not. But its still sad. I feel sorry for her being born at that time.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Thanks!

Perfect example of modern PC bullying. In one era, the vast majority of states have 10 year age of consent. In another, people are harassed for even pointing it out.

It is so interesting that in the age of increasing acceptance of gays, lesbians, plural relationships, etc. that the opposite has occurred with youth - the age of consent has steadily been raised as the bar is lowered for everyone else.

Could it perhaps be that there's an awareness that children mature at different rates and that they should be protected from possible sexual manipulation until such an age where they can reasonably make informed decisions about sex? The idea that we should ignore all that because a mature 10 year old might be ready to have sex (and isnt it an outrage that they cant) seems to me to be pretty frighteningly short sighted and very ignorant.

[decocker 7,198]

a ten year old ready for sex? nope. you can't find me one. not on this planet.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Could it perhaps be that there's an awareness that children mature at different rates and that they should be protected from possible sexual manipulation until such an age where they can reasonably make informed decisions about sex? The idea that we should ignore all that because a mature 10 year old might be ready to have sex (and isnt it an outrage that they cant) seems to me to be pretty frighteningly short sighted and very ignorant.

A ten year old ready for sex? Did you read your comment after you wrote it? No child's (Key word child) no child's body is ready for a grown man. PERIOD! They are also too mentally unstable and easily manipulated. The child will just end up as a sex slave instead of a wife.

Unbelievable!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A ten year old ready for sex? Did you read your comment after you wrote it? No child's (Key word child) no child's body is ready for a grown man. PERIOD! They are also too mentally unstable and easily manipulated. The child will just end up as a sex slave instead of a wife.

Unbelievable!

Let me clarify my position for you:

• I believe children mature at different rates.
• I do not believe 10-year olds should be having sex.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Something I don't know about marrying young in the early 1800s is whether or not they actually had sex. Perhaps giving a young daughter like that was a gift or a promise or a payment. And maybe the sex didn't start til later. I am not an expert on the subject, perhaps someone with scholarly knowledge on the subject can chime in. I'd like to imagine a young wife such as spoken about herr was raised as a child, and the sexual stuff didn't start til years later.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Something I don't know about marrying young in the early 1800s is whether or not they actually had sex. Perhaps giving a young daughter like that was a gift or a promise or a payment. And maybe the sex didn't start til later. I am not an expert on the subject, perhaps someone with scholarly knowledge on the subject can chime in. I'd like to imagine a young wife such as spoken about herr was raised as a child, and the sexual stuff didn't start til years later.

I think you'll be disappointed.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

I think you'll be disappointed.

You are prolly right. But I'd still like to think humanity was better off than having sex with little kids back then. Silly, I know, given the facts of our history.

[decocker 7,198]

I'd like to imagine a young wife such as spoken about herr was raised as a child, and the sexual stuff didn't start til years later.

how awesome would it be to be taken into a home, "raised" by a seemingly nice man, up until he deemed ya ripe enough to get busy with. just thinking about it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

the whole 'young wife' and 'if sex was put off until she was older' really isn't the argument. it's consent. and a young wife who is given as a gift or a promise - never has ownership of her consent. it's taken from her.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

To further clarify what I said earlier - by 'ready for sex' I meant that some people have sexual thoughts and desires at a young age. Many don't.

With regards to sex, we have an age of consent because it's been determined that this is the age that at which person is not only physically mature but is also able to handle the emotions that come with being sexually active. Obviously it's entirely possible that a 14 yo might be more emotionally mature than a 16 yo, but it's entirely responsible that as a society we have a minimum standard for when people can be sexually active.

Personally, I believe the absolute minimum should be 16.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

how awesome would it be to be taken into a home, "raised" by a seemingly nice man, up until he deemed ya ripe enough to get busy with. just thinking about it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

the whole 'young wife' and 'if sex was put off until she was older' really isn't the argument. it's consent. and a young wife who is given as a gift or a promise - never has ownership of her consent. it's taken from her.

Well, that's the way things were done back then, whether or not we agree with it today.

As for the ownership of consent.... there are cultures today who still don't see that as a valid argument. I know an Indian couple who met for the first time during their marriage ceremony. They're still married 52 years later.

I also know a guy who said his dad paid for his mom when she was very young, because she was pretty and he wanted her. (Can't remember what country they were from)