"Guns Don’t Kill People, People Do?"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"Guns Dont Kill People, People Do?"

This is my first entry in my new blog, A Logical Take where I will explain how logic can help us examine and make sense of the world around us. For my first entry, I would like examine an argument that is being heard, over and over again, in the wake of the Sandy Hook tragedy, and the subsequent debate about gun regulation:

Guns dont kill people; people kill people.

Everyone's heard it, a lot of people believe it, and some even think it settles the whole gun control debate. (After all, thats why its the NRAs slogan, and why people brandish it on bumper stickers and post it endlessly on facebook.) Others, however, think the argument is terrible. Interestingly, however, I cant find a solid consensus regarding what exactly is wrong with it. Some think it begs the question, others think it equivocates, still others think it merely oversimplifies the issue. Consequently, especially as a logician, I think its an argument worth some examination.

Some might not want to read any further, thinking that by using the Sandy Hook tragedy to argue for gun regulations I am politicizing that tragedy. There are a couple of things to say in response. First, I'm not going to argue for or against gun regulations. I am simply going to examine this argument. There may still be good arguments against gun regulation, or there may not. All I want to know is whether or not this argument is one. Secondly, the notion that the political ramifications of a tragedy should not be discussed in the wake of that tragedy is itself fallacious. We do need to make sure our heads are emotionally clear before having a serious discussion, but it is not disrespectful to the victims of a tragedy to discuss possible ways that we might avoid similar tragedies. Besides, tragedies such as Sandy Hook have now become so common that if we are not allowed to speak about gun regulations in the wake of such tragedies, we will never be allowed to speak about it at all. Truth be told, the notion that one shouldn't talk about such things after a tragedy is a political notion itself one invented by those against gun regulations because they know that people are more in favor of gun regulations after such tragedies.

So let us turn to the argument itself: Guns dont kill people; people kill people. The first thing to notice is that the argument has no stated conclusion. What follows? Since the argument is usually given in the context of a discussion about gun regulation, by gun advocates, I assume the conclusion has something to do with that. But what exactly? That there should be no gun regulation at all? That there should not be more gun regulation than there is? That the increase in mass killings done with guns is irrelevant to whether or not there should be gun regulations? Who knows? And an argument without an obvious conclusion is hardly an argument at all.

In any event, it doesn't matter because no conclusion about gun regulation logically follows from these two statements. To understand why, let me articulate the difference between ultimate, intermediate, and proximate causes. Consider the words you are looking at right now. What "caused" the words to appear as they are appearing to you right now? You might say that I, the author, did but that is not the whole story. The whole story is long and includes my fingers typing on a keyboard, the creation of an MSWord document, me posting the words on my blog, etc. There is a long "causal chain" standing between my intention to type these words and the emission of light from your screen to your eyes. The causal chain starts with me I am the ultimate cause. Other subsequent links in the chainmy typing, Justins postings, your clickingare intermediate causes." And the light emitting from your screen is the proximate causethe thing or event most immediately responsible for your current experience.

The argument under consideration clarifies that, when it comes to murders, people are the ultimate cause and guns are merely proximate causes the end of a causal chain that started with a person deciding to murder. But nothing follows from these facts about whether or not guns should be regulated. Such facts are true for all criminal activity, and even noncriminal activity that harms others: The ultimate cause is found in some decision that a person made; the event, activity or object that most directly did the harming was only a proximate cause. But this tells us nothing about whether or not the proximate cause in question should be regulated or made illegal. For example, consider the following argument:

"Bazookas don't kill people; people kill people."

Although it is obviously true that bazookas are only proximate causes, it clearly does not follow that bazookas should be legal. Yes, bazookas don't kill people, people dobut bazookas make it a lot easier for people to kill people, and in great numbers. Further, a bazooka would not be useful for much else besides mass murders. Bazookas clearly should be illegal and the fact that they would only be proximate causes to mass murders does not change this. In fact, it is totally irrelevant to the issue; it has nothing to do the fact that they should be illegal. Why? Because other things are proximate causes to peoples demise, but obviously shouldnt be illegal. For example, consider this argument (given in the aftermath of a bad car accident):

"Cars don't kill people; people kill people."

Obviously cars should not be illegal, but notice that this has nothing to do with the fact that they are proximate causes. Of course, they should be regulated; I shouldn't be allowed to go onto the highway in a car with no brakes. But all of that has to do what cars are for (they are not made for killing people), what role they play in society (it couldn't function without them), etc. It's a complicated issueone to which pointing out that that cars are merely proximate causes to some deaths contributes nothing.

So clearly the argument under consideration, and any other argument that merely points out that guns are proximate causes (e.g., "stop blaming the guns and start blaming the person") is fallacious. Since people can't seem to agree on what fallacy such arguments employ, I would like to give a name to the mistake I have identified within them: "the fallacy of mistaking the relevance of proximate causation."

So, should all guns be illegal? After all, like the bazooka, they do make killing people in mass easier to accomplish. Then again, like cars, using them for mass murder is not their intended function. Most people agree that they should at least be regulated (at the least, most think that all gun sales should require a background check). But how strictly should they be regulated? Perhaps very strictly. After all, states with stricter gun regulations have fewer gun related deaths. Then again, there may be philosophical issues related to the protection of liberty that trump such utilitarian concerns. Its a complicated issue.

And thats my point: Its a complicated issue. There are lots of relevant factors involved, but the fact that guns are proximate causes isn't one of them. So the next time quotes the NRA slogan, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people," in an attempt to end a discussion about gun control, do me a favor: point out that they have mistaken the relevance of proximate causation, pause briefly to enjoy the confused look on their face, and then patiently explain the fallacy to them.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/logical-take/201302/guns-don-t-kill-people-people-do

[Dakine10 5,452]

He has a point, but i'm not sure it's ever worth rationalizing such a strawman argument. It's a fallacy to begin with.

Take the absurdity to it's limit and you would then argue why one would keep a gun for defense anyway. If guns don't kill people, why have a gun. Just keep extra people around.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well I like the idea that if all inanimate are inherently non dangerous, then I should be able to buy hand grenades or a nuclear weapon.

Strangely no one argues for those to be legal. Why? Because it is absolutely insane!

[Pooky 3,809]

Well I like the idea that if all inanimate are inherently non dangerous, then I should be able to buy hand grenades or a nuclear weapon.

Strangely no one argues for those to be legal. Why? Because it is absolutely insane!

Yet every time there is a gun incident, your go-to argument is to say that the gun was the main driver. What about looking at what caused the person behind the trigger to pull it?

I would like nothing better than to remove guns from the culture of US life, but American history and the number of firearms in circulation weigh prohibitively, in my opinion, against that possibility.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yet every time there is a gun incident, your go-to argument is to say that the gun was the main driver. What about looking at what caused the person behind the trigger to pull it?

I would like nothing better than to remove guns from the culture of US life, but American history and the number of firearms in circulation weigh prohibitively, in my opinion, against that possibility.

Ive never said that the gun was the cause of the crime, only that the presence of the gun makes it possible.

I was readimg something else earlier that talked about how mental illness is often cited as a reason for a lot of mass shootings. Yet there is actually little evidence that a mental illness is at work in their crimes. The columbine killers, the kid who shot up Virginia tech were social misfits. Introverted loners who are full of rage and US gun culture merely gives them agency to act on it.

[Pooky 3,809]

Ive never said that the gun was the cause of the crime, only that the presence of the gun makes it possible.

I was readimg something else earlier that talked about how mental illness is often cited as a reason for a lot of mass shootings. Yet there is actually little evidence that a mental illness is at work in their crimes. The columbine killers, the kid who shot up Virginia tech were social misfits. Introverted loners who are full of rage and US gun culture merely gives them agency to act on it.

Yet your opening point regarding the family massacre in Florida was made about the guns and not what made him want to try killing his whole family. Do you honestly believe he would have not tried the same, if he had no access to firearms?

And what good would more laws do, if the ones we have are ignored? If the reports I read are correct, current laws should have prevented him gaining access to firearms, had they been enforced.

Just how do you propose reversing over 200 years of American history and culture and remove over 300 million firearms from circulation?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I have no idea what would have happened if the guy didn't have guns, no one does. Itsma bit pointless trying to speculate. I would say though that when guns are involved the level of escalation of an incident pretty much guarantees someone being killed or seriously injured. Personally, I think we'd all be better off with people knocking lumps out of each other than pulling a gun.

I don't think you can reverse the gun culture or remove the guns from circulation. I don't have to agree with it though or the NRA's position on gun crime.