Ex-soldiers reveal the pressure they are put under by their superiors - and question the IDF’s commitment to leaving the unarmed unharmed

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ex-soldiers reveal the pressure they are put under by their superiors - and question the IDF’s commitment to leaving the unarmed unharmed

Memories of his service along the Gaza border two years ago have been streaming through the mind of Shai Davidovich this week as he hears news from the crowded coastal enclave of heavy Palestinian civilian casualties from the devastating Israeli military campaign there.

Mr Davidovich, 27, the educational director for an ex-soldiers’ group Breaking the Silence, served in field intelligence during Operation Pillar of Cloud, a previous Israeli war against Hamas in Gaza in 2012. He says he was repeatedly ordered to help prepare for the firing of artillery during the hostilities but that he thought it was “crazy’’ to use artillery in a crowded area, in this case the town of Beit Hanoun.

“The news is bringing me back to when we were there and we got orders every day that at 5pm we will shoot artillery. We prepared all day for this, but in the end it didn’t happen. It was surrealistic to see kids playing in Beit Hanoun. With the binoculars we saw a lot of civilians, but I don’t remember that anyone ever spoke about the civilian population. I thought to myself, ‘how can you fire without harming civilians?’

“Artillery is an imprecise weapon. Artillery fire to an area inhabited by civilians cannot be moral, we trained on open areas.’’

Mr Davidovich’s memories fuse with the images of large-scale carnage in the current conflict, which he unequivocally opposes, unlike the near consensus of Israelis who view this as a just war of self-defence against rocket fire and tunnel infiltrations, and blame Hamas for all the civilian casualties. “Any campaign in which the civilian population is harmed on a large scale cannot be moral,’’ he says. “Israel has a right to defend itself, but not like this.’’

Mr Davidovich’s colleagues in Breaking the Silence, which collects soldiers’ secret testimonies to try to enlighten the Israeli public as to the true nature of the army’s activities in the West Bank and Gaza. This week, alarmed at the civilian deaths in Gaza, it took testimonies from soldiers who served in previous Israeli operations in the region, including Mr Davidovich.

They made the testimonies available to The Independent to make a statement against the current fighting. Operation Rainbow in 2004 is the earliest of the campaigns covered while Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09 and Operation Pillar of Defence in 2012 also feature. They do not include anything from the current conflict.

“If you look at all the recent operations continuing into the current operation you see a moral descent that doesn’t stop and a military aggressiveness that only increases,’’ says Yehuda Shaul, the founder of Breaking the Silence.

“The level of destruction, the death toll of civilians and the practices teach us that it gets worse and worse.’’ He takes issue with the use of artillery and the bombing of family homes of Hamas personalities, which the army says are used for command and are, therefore, legitimate targets.

Mr Shaul says that even if Israel warns civilians to vacate areas to be targeted, that does not absolve it of moral responsibility for their fate. “If they don’t leave do they deserve to die?’’, he asked.

“One of the biggest lies of this operation and Cast Lead is that we’re doing everything to avoid civilian casualties. When you use artillery in a place like Gaza you can’t say you are taking every precaution. It’s not the case that generals are looking to kill more civilians, far from that. But we are far away from the official line that everything is being done to avoid civilian casualties.’’

While Breaking the Silence views the testimonies from the past as a way to understand the present, the army believes the group is rehashing old claims to embarrass it at a sensitive time. Asked about the allegations, Col (res.) Shaul Shay, former deputy head of Israel’s National Security Council and a scholar at the Interdisciplinary Centre in Herzliya, near Tel Aviv, told The Independent that the army “kept, is keeping and will keep high moral standards in all its Gaza operations.

“To our sorrow, the approach of Hamas is to use civilians as a human shield and to war against our civilian population. The army adheres in an exceptional manner almost to the point of endangering our soldiers in order to try to have war with minimum civilian casualties. The more Hamas shelling builds shooting positions, tunnels and attack positions in built-up areas, the more the army is forced to fight there and from this there are [civilian] casualties”.

He says steps to warn civilians to leave their homes go beyond anything the US or UK militaries have done. “Breaking the Silence has no case. It saddens me that Israelis make such claims at such a time, claims that serve the propaganda and psychological warfare of the enemy,’’ Mr Shay said.

Soldier testimonies here.

[Hei Guizi 21]

Yawn

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yawn

Yawn? Unless you're saying that you're The Zohan or something, I'd say those guys have more of a first hand opinion that you do,

[Hei Guizi 21]

All Pal propaganda sweetie.

Rant on if you wish. The lawn has been cut again and they will do it again in a year or two.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's interesting that you can write off what's happened as 'cutting the lawn'. That's a euphemism and there's only one reason you use euphemisms in a situation like that - to dehumanise people.

Ever heard of The Final Solution? Same rationale.

[Hei Guizi 21]

Final solution would be for the Pals to accept the land offered them at the beginning and stop teaching hate to children and launching missiles into Israel. Together in peace they could both prosper and be strong. But !! that is Not what is written in the Hamas charter so it aint gonna happen unless the Pals get rid of Hamas. So the hate rages on.

Stay tuned for the next round of landscaping work.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not talking about the situations being comparable, I'm talking about the language you are using - trying to play down civilian deaths and destruction because it doesn't fit in with your agenda. You want to sweep those deaths under the carpet. I think that's wrong.

Naturally you are aware that the situation in Gaza predates Hamas by quite a number of years. Hamas didn't spring out of nothing, it was a response to Israel's policy towards the Palestinian territories. It's an entirely predictable situation.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Hail Ming!

[OriZ 3,157]

Yes there are people on both sides that have some problems with either sides policies and practices. For every soldier in the IDF you can find me, I can find you an ex-terrorist, son of terrorist, etc.

Here is some more soldier cruelty from the recent operation:(hint, it's not the Israelis that tied him to the wall).

and here they are brutally attacking a little child that just wants to play with his toys(this is IN Israel, Jerusalem, Western wall) - the scarf on his head is one of Hamas, Btw.

You're talking about first hand. I have much better first hand than you. For one I've been a soldier myself, for two I know people that were in Gaza just now, and three I've known people from previous operations.

In 2006 during the war with Lebanon I know for a fact there were times they knew a building had rockets in it, or they were shooting them from it, but did not attack cause there were civilians there.

In Gaza right now same thing. There is even a particular hospital and a particular area of it which no, it was not attacked, cause it had civilians in it, even though they knew that Hamas leadership was hiding in it.

I can go on and on.

[Póg mo 1,749]

Yes there are people on both sides that have some problems with either sides policies and practices. For every soldier in the IDF you can find me, I can find you an ex-terrorist, son of terrorist, etc.

Here is some more soldier cruelty from the recent operation:(hint, it's not the Israelis that tied him to the wall).

and here they are brutally attacking a little child that just wants to play with his toys(this is IN Israel, Jerusalem, Western wall) - the scarf on his head is one of Hamas, Btw.

You're talking about first hand. I have much better first hand than you. For one I've been a soldier myself, for two I know people that were in Gaza just now, and three I've known people from previous operations.

In 2006 during the war with Lebanon I know for a fact there were times they knew a building had rockets in it, or they were shooting them from it, but did not attack cause there were civilians there.

In Gaza right now same thing. There is even a particular hospital and a particular area of it which no, it was not attacked, cause it had civilians in it, even though they knew that Hamas leadership was hiding in it.

I can go on and on.

Cute pictures.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes there are people on both sides that have some problems with either sides policies and practices. For every soldier in the IDF you can find me, I can find you an ex-terrorist, son of terrorist, etc.

Here is some more soldier cruelty from the recent operation:(hint, it's not the Israelis that tied him to the wall).

and here they are brutally attacking a little child that just wants to play with his toys(this is IN Israel, Jerusalem, Western wall) - the scarf on his head is one of Hamas, Btw.

You're talking about first hand. I have much better first hand than you. For one I've been a soldier myself, for two I know people that were in Gaza just now, and three I've known people from previous operations.

In 2006 during the war with Lebanon I know for a fact there were times they knew a building had rockets in it, or they were shooting them from it, but did not attack cause there were civilians there.

In Gaza right now same thing. There is even a particular hospital and a particular area of it which no, it was not attacked, cause it had civilians in it, even though they knew that Hamas leadership was hiding in it.

I can go on and on.

What the soldiers in the article are objecting to is being part of military actions where they were ordered to fire on a target regardless of the civilian presence.

I can see the wrong in that.

[OriZ 3,157]

lol so in response you are showing me pictures that have already been proven they are not even from Israel. Nice propaganda.

http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2012/02/03/photo-idf-soldier-stepping-girl-proven-false/

I've actually posted something before where they took it even further, now not only they show pictures that are not even from Israel and pretend they are, they actually take pictures of hurt Israelis(!!) and shamelessly claim they are Palestinians. To which Hail Ming told me I was propogandizing the issue. But I knew exactly why I was showing it. To expose stuff like this.

[OriZ 3,157]

What the soldiers in the article are objecting to is being part of military actions where they were ordered to fire on a target regardless of the civilian presence.

I can see the wrong in that.

I actually forgot even one more example...from the RECENT operation - there were actually pilots that were complaining that even though guys on the ground were being attacked from certain buildings, and required aerial assistance, the pilots were told not to fire due to danger of hitting civilians. So they called off helping out the ground troops - who ended up getting hurt and some even killed - in order to avoid civilian casualties, and they were expressing their frustration about that. I'm not saying they always do it perfect, like any army...but they do try.