Deriving US citizenship through Father

[irfan 0]

VJ Friends

i have an important scenario if someone can help out.

A friend of mine became permanent resident in 1988 applied for his wife and 3 kids who came to US in 1993. At the time his kids were all under 15.His kids resided with him in NYC for 2 years and then visited US every year for 3 to 4 months during their school holidays till 1997. He became USC in 1997 while his kids were visiting him. They stayed for 3 months and left for back home. I believe once a parent is a USC all kids under 18 and permanent residents can apply for US passport and also apply for naturalization certificate.

unfortunately he never knew about this law and his kids ended up staying in home country and their green cards expired in 2003. He is back in US now and trying to apply for his kids but someone told him that his kids who are all over 21 now and single can still get US passports cause by law they were eligible to become citizen when he became citizen in 1997. Can someone please let me know if this is possible? i will appreciate. Thanks

[hammadf2a 3]

this is really complex!! but you should contact Islamabad embassy telling them that staying there was beyond your control and they might get their visas renewed!! goodluck.

[Ontarkie 14,890]

~~Moved to US Citizenship General Discussion, from Bringing Family Members of US Citizens to America - As the question is more about citizenship for the kids~~

[hammadf2a 3]

http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/returning.html

this might help you

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

The child citizenship we all know was enacted in 2001 , they aren't covered under that law. I am not sure of the old law

http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartH-Chapter4.html#S-C That seems to be the conditions.

Edited July 2, 2014 by NigeriaorBust

[irfan 0]

i appreciate the responses. But as i remember another friend of mine kids came to US in 1997 and the father became citizen in 1998 so the older child who was a few months from the age of 18 was given a US passport. Hope someone with more information will respond back. My only question is can they go to US embassy in pakistan and claim they were automatically citizens but did not know the law at that time?

[jan22 3,153]

i appreciate the responses. But as i remember another friend of mine kids came to US in 1997 and the father became citizen in 1998 so the older child who was a few months from the age of 18 was given a US passport. Hope someone with more information will respond back. My only question is can they go to US embassy in pakistan and claim they were automatically citizens but did not know the law at that time?

No, they can't -- because they may or may not have become citizens. It depends on the paperwork that was filed at the time he became a citizen and, in many cases, where the children were living at the time. If it is determined, for example, that they had already abandoned their US residency at the time he became a US citizen (which it sounds like someone might be able to say they did), then the children were not included in his naturalization. Even if they had not abandoned residency when he naturalized, it depends on the paperwork filed at the time of naturalization. This all depends on USCIS and their determination -- not the Embassy's. The father should contact USCIS -- or have a lawyer do so -- and see what the records show.

And, BTW, even though the initial return was beyond their control, since all are now over the age of 21 (per the OP), they cannot claim that remaining outside the US since the age of 18 was not under their control -- no returning resident visa likely.

[irfan 0]

No, they can't -- because they may or may not have become citizens. It depends on the paperwork that was filed at the time he became a citizen and, in many cases, where the children were living at the time. If it is determined, for example, that they had already abandoned their US residency at the time he became a US citizen (which it sounds like someone might be able to say they did), then the children were not included in his naturalization. Even if they had not abandoned residency when he naturalized, it depends on the paperwork filed at the time of naturalization. This all depends on USCIS and their determination -- not the Embassy's. The father should contact USCIS -- or have a lawyer do so -- and see what the records show.

And, BTW, even though the initial return was beyond their control, since all are now over the age of 21 (per the OP), they cannot claim that remaining outside the US since the age of 18 was not under their control -- no returning resident visa likely.

Sorry but what do you mean by paper work filed? the friend whose kid go the passport did not file anything other then the application to naturalize.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

On the parents citizenship paperwork. Was there mention of the children ? Where they included as dependents or did he already consider them as living outside the country, Immediately before and after were they spending more time in the US than out or where they abusing their green card to visit the US and were living else where ? This may not be do it yourself stuff. I would at least pay for a consult with a GOOD immigration lawyer,

[irfan 0]

On the parents citizenship paperwork. Was there mention of the children ? Where they included as dependents or did he already consider them as living outside the country, Immediately before and after were they spending more time in the US than out or where they abusing their green card to visit the US and were living else where ? This may not be do it yourself stuff. I would at least pay for a consult with a GOOD immigration lawyer,

i will ask the father this question about mention on citizenship paperwork. According to him after 1995 the kids were visiting him for 3 to 4 months every year till 1998 and he was claiming them his dependents on tax returns.

[JimmyHou 613]

Irfan,

I don't know about the old law, but under the current law, you would have two problems. The law requires that at the time the parent becomes a US citizen, the children should be:

1- US Permanent residents

2- Under 18

3- "...residing in the U.S. in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent..." (see here:http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents)

If the new law had applied at the time the parent became a US citizen, the children in this case probably didn't meet the third requirement and may not even have met the first requirement because they were out of the country for so long; they may have been deemed to have lost their residency.

One other thing... expiration of a greencard does not mean expiration of permanent resident status. If a permanent resident living in the US lets his/her greencard expire, then he/she is still a US citizen. In this case however, the children have probably been abroad for far too long.

The only question is, did they become US citizens when their parent was naturalized or not? If the answer is yes, then it doesn't matter how old they are now, because they would already be US citizens. Unfortunately, it looks like the they may never have been eligible for automatic US citizenship. At least, this is the case under the new law... you'll need to consult a lawyer or do a lot of research to find out how the law worked back then.

This is of course my reading of a complicated legal issue and I'm not a lawyer, so I could be completely wrong... just trying to explain how I see the case.

This is not a USCIS link, but may be helpful.

http://www.lawhelpmn.org/files/1765CC5E-1EC9-4FC4-65EC-957272D8A04E/attachments/2973308D-B5A3-41F6-9E5E-1DD94DFBBC57/i-12-proving-your-childs-citizenship.pdf

Edited July 2, 2014 by JimmyHou

[irfan 0]

Irfan,

I don't know about the old law, but under the current law, you would have two problems. The law requires that at the time the parent becomes a US citizen, the children should be:

1- US Permanent residents

2- Under 18

3- "...residing in the U.S. in the legal and physical custody of the U.S. citizen parent..." (see here:http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents)

If the new law had applied at the time the parent became a US citizen, the children in this case probably didn't meet the third requirement and may not even have met the first requirement because they were out of the country for so long; they may have been deemed to have lost their residency.

One other thing... expiration of a greencard does not mean expiration of permanent resident status. If a permanent resident living in the US lets his/her greencard expire, then he/she is still a US citizen. In this case however, the children have probably been abroad for far too long.

The only question is, did they become US citizens when their parent was naturalized or not? If the answer is yes, then it doesn't matter how old they are now, because they would already be US citizens. Unfortunately, it looks like the they may never have been eligible for automatic US citizenship. At least, this is the case under the new law... you'll need to consult a lawyer or do a lot of research to find out how the law worked back then.

This is of course my reading of a complicated legal issue and I'm not a lawyer, so I could be completely wrong... just trying to explain how I see the case.

This is not a USCIS link, but may be helpful.

http://www.lawhelpmn.org/files/1765CC5E-1EC9-4FC4-65EC-957272D8A04E/attachments/2973308D-B5A3-41F6-9E5E-1DD94DFBBC57/i-12-proving-your-childs-citizenship.pdf

Jimmy

Thanks for your detailed response. I just confirmed with another friend whose kid arrive in june of 1997 and they were citizens by august 97 so it means the law existed at that time. regarding the person for whom i asked the question he became citizen in june of 1997 and his kids came to visit him using their green cards after being out of US for 8 months they are suppose to get passports by law.

I still believe he will go talk to a lawyer cause if the law was that a person whose citizen can get his kids passports if they are permanent residents was

[Jawaree 719]

The laws does apply but best to speak to a US atty. there

may be hurdles only an atty could manage the bar....lets

says there are requirements how long the kids should have

stayed in the US, have things changed because of GC been

abandoned, do he need 1st to re-petitioned them & have them

apply since they aged out?....best to get an atty

[Rip_curl 4]

I just applied for my son's passport after acquiring our naturalization certs at passport agency. They asked for US green card, birth cert, our marriage cert (original and certified), proof that he living with us (I had to get that from his school). I didn't take the marriage and birth cert at first but they were persistent on seeing the original. And if they are not in English then it has to be translated and certified. I had that at home since i had to get it for green card.

This process is if you are applying within US but I am not sure what it will be from Pakistan. They can check from the US consulate there but I doubt that it will be different as this is state department requirement.

As other posters mentioned it would be best to consult an experienced immigration attorney.

[AnotherLostSoul 167]

better speak to an attorney....laws change here all the time, hard to tell what was applicable back in 1997. Now for sure, kids visiting their dad does not count as a "continuous residence" and certainly does not count as "under custody of a US citizen". Also, as one mentioned, depends on what papers the father filled out. If he did nothing, and his kids just "visited him" that, under current law, does not help them. But who knows about 1997. Certainly not I...I was just 5 years old. LOL So, you're better off speaking to an attorney on this...good luck!