my wife is a natural born shooter

[Nick_Moscow 2]

Her very first time firing a weapon (or so she claims)

As everyone here pretty much already mentioned: yes, if your RUBette was of high-school age before the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the twentieth century took place, she has already shot a firearm, likely a Kalishnikov, in her 'defense of the homeland' class (yeesh all we got here in the US was gym class, or at best a wooden mock rifle for marching in formation in ROTC).

I'm happy to say I got my RUBette on the range but sad to say she did not shoot with me Slim was right when he said the girls like the trip to enjoy nature; my issue was that even with the ear protection on all the loud bangs spooked her...plus there probably are remnants of PTSD from the WWIII that took place in our household when she found out that I bought a gun without her permission ....but I'm hoping this will be like when someone tries out the diving board for the first time....on our first trip, she at least went to the range with me (LOL,and read her book while sitting at a picnic table off to the side), on the second trip I'm hoping she'll HOLD the firearm, then maybe on the third trip, she'll pull the trigger

As for type of firearm to purchase, you'll probably have lots of factors to think about:

1. Caliber choice

1a. Is the firearm primarily for self defense or fun? I went with self defense so I got the Glock 22 .40 caliber but the downside of this is:

i. costlier ammo and

ii. greater recoil which might spook my RUBette on her third trip to the rangge when she finally pulls the trigger.

2. Type of firearm

2a. Do you go with rifle, handgun, shotgun?

1. rifle - lots of fun for target shooting/fun, good self defense option, ammo can be expensive if it's for example an AK or AR-15 vs. a .22

i. I really wanted a rifle (still do) but with the one-shot surprise purchase that I knew would be followed by WWIII, I had to go with a handgun as my first-choice firearm

ii. What are your state's current or upcoming laws?

a. If you live in the people's republic of Maryland, as I do, both options are bad: you either try to buy now a semi-automatic rifle before they're banned, or you buy a handgun before you're forced beginning Oct. 1 to pay a new handgun tax (in the form of a bloated licensing process)

2. Shotgun - also lots of fun for target or skeet shooting (h/t Skip), maybe OK for self-defense but you've got the difficulty of reloading and also limited magazine capacity

i. WHATEVER YOU DO don't ever take VP Biden's advice! You'll either be staring down a criminal with a very expensive metal baseball bat once your shotgun is empty, or you'll be facing criminal charges like the poor guy in Washington state who followed Biden's advice (this is actually true - look it up!)

3. Handgun - this is I think your best choice if you're only sneaking one firearm past your RUBette, or if you're trying to buy before your own People's Republic state (MD, CT, CO, etc.) outlaws your second amendment rights

i. You should seriously consider a .22 handgun. The benefits: lower cost ammunition and lighter recoil, also you may be surprised at the benefits of a .22 for self defense. The NRA had a great review of .22 ammunition in its Rifleman magazine about four months ago. The gist of the article was that the .22 can be a great defensive round:

a. it has penetration depth almost equal to 9mm or .40 caliber rounds

b. though the HP rounds have much less expansion than 9mm or .40 caliber HP rounds, the article made two great points:

1. Expansion is often overrated with the explanation of needing tissue damage in the event that the attacker is intoxicated or on drugs and therefore less like likely to be incapacitated by an FMJ or a smaller round

2. studies show that caliber may be unimportant since very often the firearm need not be fired: the fear of being shot, or fear of having already been shot, is enough to stop the attacker

So, my thought is that a .22 caliber handgun is the best choice for a first firearm purchase. Whichever way you go, good luck and have fun on the range with your RUBette!

(BTW, if you do have a .40, be on the lookout for great online deals (I find that gun-deals . c o m is a good site) - only a few weeks ago I got an amazing deal! I got Serbian .40 caliber JHP rounds for about $17 per box after shipping!

[slim 1,514]

.22 pistol is the way to go, .22 rifle is a close second.

I have a Walther P-22 that my wife and her friends really like shooting. It's a great little handgun and perfect for them to get started on. It's no slouch either. I recently ran it through the Combat Focus Shooting course (nearly 1,000 rds with several mag swaps, etc.) and the only issues I had were operator induced. I'd have ZERO qualms carrying this pistol for self defense. The Ruger Mk series (I, II, III) is pretty good as is the Browning Buckmark.

As for a .22 rifle, there are several to choose from. I'm partial to the Ruger 10/22 because of it's reliability and availability of aftermarket parts. The Marlins (60, 597, etc.) are more accurate but not quite as robust as the Rugers. I'd stay away from the Remington 597. Savage makes a fine little .22 in both bolt and semi.

The big reason I recommend the Ruger 10/22 is it's really easy to transition to just about anything else after that. "Mags go in here, work the bolt like this, click off the safety..." when she jumps on an AR or AK or whatever, the basic operation is pretty much the same. Plus it's light, easy to use, and plenty accurate. Not too expensive either.

[Steve S 2]

Thanks, Nick, for a detailed analysis. I have watched a lot of YouTube videos on this topic. Some posters of these videos are really fanatics, into heavy caliber guns and they keep an armory at the bedside (eg. high capacity 10 mm handgun AND shotgun). I however am not preparing for the extremely unlikely event of a full-scale tactical assault -- the chance of firing anything at home is remote and of needing advanced "stopping power" more remote still. I am looking for something that is both fun for target practice and can be in a gunsafe at home "in case if what" (as Irina would say). A handgun seems by far the most practical for this purpose though for fun I want to try out the other types of weapons. Other issues to consider -- the noise without ear protection and risk of over penetration (neighbors close by) may favor the .22. If to keep only one gun which is also for target shooting, a relatively long barrel revolver or semi-auto in .22 with single or single/double action makes a lot of sense. I would also favor having a thumb safety (important to practice with for muscle memory).

My comment about Irina only claiming never to have shot before was purely in jest -- she did not complete all her schooling in the Soviet era when weapons training may have been more common.

The comment about "natural born shooter" and DOMA - ha, you zinged me with that one!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks, Nick, for a detailed analysis. I have watched a lot of YouTube videos on this topic. Some posters of these videos are really fanatics, into heavy caliber guns and they keep an armory at the bedside (eg. high capacity 10 mm handgun AND shotgun). I however am not preparing for the extremely unlikely event of a full-scale tactical assault -- the chance of firing anything at home is remote and of needing advanced "stopping power" more remote still. I am looking for something that is both fun for target practice and can be in a gunsafe at home "in case if what" (as Irina would say). A handgun seems by far the most practical for this purpose though for fun I want to try out the other types of weapons. Other issues to consider -- the noise without ear protection and risk of over penetration (neighbors close by) may favor the .22. If to keep only one gun which is also for target shooting, a relatively long barrel revolver or semi-auto in .22 with single or single/double action makes a lot of sense. I would also favor having a thumb safety (important to practice with for muscle memory).

My comment about Irina only claiming never to have shot before was purely in jest -- she did not complete all her schooling in the Soviet era when weapons training may have been more common.

The comment about "natural born shooter" and DOMA - ha, you zinged me with that one!

I have quite a collection for Alla to choose from but she wanted her "own" guns and she tried my .22s first. For HER purpose she needs nothing else. She likes shooting paper targets at long ranges (100 yards for her 22 rifle and 25 yards for her 22 pistol) She says it is more interesting that way.

For a Kalshnikov she said "maybe someday". One guy let her try a .300 Win Mag and he got the stinky eye for that She does not shoot my bigger guns. She does not carry a pistol but always pats me down for mine. She checks my front pocket (keys), back pocket (wallet) and right hip (gun) "OK, let's go, I don't need my purse, you have the keys, money and gun"

If she wants you can move up to larger caliber rifles and pistols.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As everyone here pretty much already mentioned: yes, if your RUBette was of high-school age before the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the twentieth century took place, she has already shot a firearm, likely a Kalishnikov, in her 'defense of the homeland' class (yeesh all we got here in the US was gym class, or at best a wooden mock rifle for marching in formation in ROTC).

I'm happy to say I got my RUBette on the range but sad to say she did not shoot with me Slim was right when he said the girls like the trip to enjoy nature; my issue was that even with the ear protection on all the loud bangs spooked her...plus there probably are remnants of PTSD from the WWIII that took place in our household when she found out that I bought a gun without her permission ....but I'm hoping this will be like when someone tries out the diving board for the first time....on our first trip, she at least went to the range with me (LOL,and read her book while sitting at a picnic table off to the side), on the second trip I'm hoping she'll HOLD the firearm, then maybe on the third trip, she'll pull the trigger

As for type of firearm to purchase, you'll probably have lots of factors to think about:

1. Caliber choice

1a. Is the firearm primarily for self defense or fun? I went with self defense so I got the Glock 22 .40 caliber but the downside of this is:

i. costlier ammo and

ii. greater recoil which might spook my RUBette on her third trip to the rangge when she finally pulls the trigger.

2. Type of firearm

2a. Do you go with rifle, handgun, shotgun?

1. rifle - lots of fun for target shooting/fun, good self defense option, ammo can be expensive if it's for example an AK or AR-15 vs. a .22

i. I really wanted a rifle (still do) but with the one-shot surprise purchase that I knew would be followed by WWIII, I had to go with a handgun as my first-choice firearm

ii. What are your state's current or upcoming laws?

a. If you live in the people's republic of Maryland, as I do, both options are bad: you either try to buy now a semi-automatic rifle before they're banned, or you buy a handgun before you're forced beginning Oct. 1 to pay a new handgun tax (in the form of a bloated licensing process)

2. Shotgun - also lots of fun for target or skeet shooting (h/t Skip), maybe OK for self-defense but you've got the difficulty of reloading and also limited magazine capacity

i. WHATEVER YOU DO don't ever take VP Biden's advice! You'll either be staring down a criminal with a very expensive metal baseball bat once your shotgun is empty, or you'll be facing criminal charges like the poor guy in Washington state who followed Biden's advice (this is actually true - look it up!)

3. Handgun - this is I think your best choice if you're only sneaking one firearm past your RUBette, or if you're trying to buy before your own People's Republic state (MD, CT, CO, etc.) outlaws your second amendment rights

i. You should seriously consider a .22 handgun. The benefits: lower cost ammunition and lighter recoil, also you may be surprised at the benefits of a .22 for self defense. The NRA had a great review of .22 ammunition in its Rifleman magazine about four months ago. The gist of the article was that the .22 can be a great defensive round:

a. it has penetration depth almost equal to 9mm or .40 caliber rounds

b. though the HP rounds have much less expansion than 9mm or .40 caliber HP rounds, the article made two great points:

1. Expansion is often overrated with the explanation of needing tissue damage in the event that the attacker is intoxicated or on drugs and therefore less like likely to be incapacitated by an FMJ or a smaller round

2. studies show that caliber may be unimportant since very often the firearm need not be fired: the fear of being shot, or fear of having already been shot, is enough to stop the attacker

So, my thought is that a .22 caliber handgun is the best choice for a first firearm purchase. Whichever way you go, good luck and have fun on the range with your RUBette!

(BTW, if you do have a .40, be on the lookout for great online deals (I find that gun-deals . c o m is a good site) - only a few weeks ago I got an amazing deal! I got Serbian .40 caliber JHP rounds for about $17 per box after shipping!

Alla's transcripts list it as "military preparedness training" (at least that is what it translated to) She says the first day the shooting instructor told the girls to "lay down" and they all laid on their backs with their knees up. You gotta love Ukrainian girls. Then he said "Turn over girls, on your STOMACH!"

She said she "closed her eyes and pulled the trigger"

I love her stories. In summer they went to Komsomol "summer camp" in rural areas. This means they worked on collective farms pulling weeds or harvesting vegetables for 2 weeks and had classes on the greater glory of Communism in the afternoon. She HATED it and lagged far behind the others crying about her nails being ruined. Oh YES, I believe this! The commisars, or whatever they called them, would scream at her ad she would cry more. "I am a terrible communist" she says. "they tried to wash my brain but I still have a dirty mind"

Edited September 21, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Neonred 3,460]

"they tried to wash my brain but I still have a dirty mind"

Aren't we lucky to have RUB wives?

[slim 1,514]

Other issues to consider -- the noise without ear protection and risk of over penetration

The after action reports I've read and the folks I've spoken to who've shot in defensive situations have confirmed the sound isn't even noticed. "There's so much adrenaline pumping and you're worried about other stuff. Only later do you think about it."

Over penetration is a legitimate concern. Almost every slug of any caliber will penetrate bodies, walls, etc., and just keep on going. Hollow points typically will not. Nor will birdshot from a shotgun. Ammo selection is way more important than caliber.

I love her stories. In summer they went to Komsomol "summer camp" in rural areas. This means they worked on collective farms pulling weeds or harvesting vegetables for 2 weeks and had classes on the greater glory of Communism in the afternoon. She HATED it and lagged far behind the others crying about her nails being ruined. Oh YES, I believe this! The commisars, or whatever they called them, would scream at her ad she would cry more. "I am a terrible communist" she says. "they tried to wash my brain but I still have a dirty mind"

My wife said when she was 10 they had to work at the potato farm and she and her friends bribed a guy with potatoes and vodka to take them home. Not sure where a 10 year old got vodka, but "it's Russia."

[Steve S 2]

So many reasons I would never want my little girl (if I had one) in a situation like that . . .

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Aren't we lucky to have RUB wives?

Oh Yes!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

My wife said when she was 10 they had to work at the potato farm and she and her friends bribed a guy with potatoes and vodka to take them home. Not sure where a 10 year old got vodka, but "it's Russia."

The stuff is everywhere!

In Ukraine they would have been able to buy it at the corner kiosk, not sure if Russia is the same. Ukraine raised the drinking age to 21 and the general reaction is "the police wanted to be able to shake down more people for bribes"

Seems to be the universal excuse..."It's Ukraine"

Edited September 22, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[BastillaShan 30]

The stuff is everywhere!

In Ukraine they would have been able to buy it at the corner kiosk, not sure if Russia is the same. Ukraine raised the drinking age to 21 and the general reaction is "the police wanted to be able to shake down more people for bribes"

Seems to be the universal excuse..."It's Ukraine"

Heh.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/09/10/vending-machine-in-ukraine-sold-shots-vodka-instead-coffee/

[slim 1,514]

It's always the tax man that messes everything up.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Heh.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/09/10/vending-machine-in-ukraine-sold-shots-vodka-instead-coffee/

It's Ukraine!

Two examples from this summer. Went to the optomotrist on a Tuesday at 10am. They were closed. the sign said "OPEN M-F 0900-1700" Hmmm. Alla sticks her head in to the shop next door. "have you seen the person in this shop?" "She did not come today". It's Ukraine

Taking a photo of the Marshall Zhukov sculpture in the Marshall Zhukov subway station

Cop: What do you think you are doing?

Me: Taking a photo

Cop: You cannot take a photo

Alla: Why not?

Cop: we have rules

Alla: WHAT rules?

Cop: Special rules

Alla:

Cop: I will take your camera and throw it under the next train!

Alla: Gopniki, Let's go!

It's Ukraine

[vbtwo 54]

We went to the zoo in Kiev.

There was a family in front of us (grandmother, mother, 2 kids) to buy tickets. The sign says there is a family ticket that includes 2 adults and 2 kids (costs the same as just 2 adult tickets). The lady says they do not qualify because it's for families and they're not a family because there is no father with them! They say it only says 2 adults and 2 kids. They stand there arguing back and forth for like 5 minutes before them having to buy 4 tickets at regular price. Apparently 2 adults and 2 kids mean specifically a father and a mother with 2 kids in Ukraine.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We went to the zoo in Kiev.

There was a family in front of us (grandmother, mother, 2 kids) to buy tickets. The sign says there is a family ticket that includes 2 adults and 2 kids (costs the same as just 2 adult tickets). The lady says they do not qualify because it's for families and they're not a family because there is no father with them! They say it only says 2 adults and 2 kids. They stand there arguing back and forth for like 5 minutes before them having to buy 4 tickets at regular price. Apparently 2 adults and 2 kids mean specifically a father and a mother with 2 kids in Ukraine.

Or it meams the clerk is having a bad day and wants to feel like they are important and MAKE them do it THEIR WAY! Or wants a bribe...split the difference. I bet that would work.

Should be a skit on Saturday Night Live.