Stop the Press Spree Against Working Moms

[MichelleandCraig 1]

I haven't read the first few pages of this yet...I will tonight when I have more time...just getting supper on now, and had a couple minutes. After reading the first few replies though, I have to say...I can see how covering for moms with sick kids, etc. *could* be a problem in some places and be annoying, but with that said...my employer never let me have time off for that reason. It was made clear that we were expected to have a backup sitter (such as grandparents or *whoever*..someone who would take them if they were sick) and that it was not a reason to miss work. So...all depends where you work if they accept that as a valid 'excuse' or not too. Probably been said already, so if it has been, sorry for the repeat. M.

[Jenn! 918]

Back to the discussion of children...or #### trophies as Pius describes them.

I buried two of them at the same time. Stillborn. Maybe to you that was a blessing...no more "contributions to society" to burden the US with, eh?

Not once did I "expect" anyone to "cover" for me while I was dog sick carrying Michael and Matthew. Not once did I NOT carry my load...sometimes for others as needed. When my boys died, I was only allowed TWO frickin weeks off. I never complained though...I went back to work like the good lil girl I am.

At my annual review I was cited for taking the two weeks off. It was written as "personal problems caused a distraction, making it difficult for Karen to fulfill her duties". Two weeks to recover from birth, death, and a funeral for two babies that should NOT be in the ground.

Yeah, I guess I expect too much...one things for damn sure....IF I get lucky to become pregnant again with another lil "#### trophy", I'll make damn sure NOT to ask anyone for anything at anytime.

Karen, the attitude of your employer is exactly what I think needs to change. It means nothing for an employer to allow time off when they turn around and use it against you. That's not being flexible. Oh well, pretty soon we'll all be replaced by robots that have no feelings - that's what employers really want.

So sorry you had to go through that. If it were me, I probably would have lost my job.

[peezey 0]

They are f*ing lazy. Go to Europe and see for yourself.

I lived in Europe for three years. Yours is exactly the type of mentality that needs to be changed int hsi country.

What type of mentality are you referring to? Anti-European?

FYI, I lived in Europe for more than twenty three years but enough is enough.

I do plan to go back again some day in the not so distant future and take your place.

Working too much is a waste of a life IMO. It bugs me that when you choose family over work, you're called lazy or without strong work ethic. I think some Americans (and you ) have got their priorities all messed up.

You say lazy, I say enjoying life.

me, too!! me, too!!

[ILIKEALLCAPS 0]

Right.....

So, where I work we're a safety company. The reports we produce enable you, the consumer, to purchase things with a fair idea that they're actually not going to kill you. On my team (we're split into teams to focus on particular industries) we're about 50/50 spawn/spawnless. At least once a week there is someone on my team who is out, has to take an afternoon (or morning) off, is a little late, or whatever excuse you have for dealing with a kid. (don't forget the "parent-teacher conference" dodge.) What this means is that we have 1 less body to deal with incoming work. That means a rush job comes in and goes into my name....shifting things around in priority....delaying companies from being able to ship product. For some industries that can be millions of dollars a day. All because little Melvin missed the bus. It also means that I get asked why things are late. Now take that to the point where there's 2, or 3, or 5 out.

Is this fair? Nope. Is it the real world? Yep.

Sorry, I'm not going to feel all warm and fuzzy about helping out the spawn-enhanced....unless they bring back some nice flu bug to share....and then I just get sick.

That's my .02

[peezey 0]

Geez, I must be an a$$hole because all this time I've worked with people who needed time here and there for their kids, I actually felt good about covering (if you can even call it that, I have never seen the indemic problem people are describing in this thread) for them because I know it can be tough sometimes. What in the hell was I thinking?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Right.....

So, where I work we're a safety company. The reports we produce enable you, the consumer, to purchase things with a fair idea that they're actually not going to kill you. On my team (we're split into teams to focus on particular industries) we're about 50/50 spawn/spawnless. At least once a week there is someone on my team who is out, has to take an afternoon (or morning) off, is a little late, or whatever excuse you have for dealing with a kid. (don't forget the "parent-teacher conference" dodge.) What this means is that we have 1 less body to deal with incoming work. That means a rush job comes in and goes into my name....shifting things around in priority....delaying companies from being able to ship product. For some industries that can be millions of dollars a day. All because little Melvin missed the bus. It also means that I get asked why things are late. Now take that to the point where there's 2, or 3, or 5 out.

Is this fair? Nope. Is it the real world? Yep.

Sorry, I'm not going to feel all warm and fuzzy about helping out the spawn-enhanced....unless they bring back some nice flu bug to share....and then I just get sick.

That's my .02

You make some good points. I think Jenn has expressed throughout this thread that companies need an across-the-board flexibility work policy. I work in the video game industry which is aging but in the beginning primarily made up of single guys who had no life outside of games. I still work with a lot of guys who are single with no kids, and they'll take time off from work for their doctor's appointments or other errands. Some people will abuse the system. I guess I'm lucky because my company is flexible that as long as you get your work done. There are clear cut expectations as to what each employee must achieve for each milestone. Although we rely on others to get our work done, ultimately it is on our shoulder. If Bob, for example, was out of the office taking his daughter to the orthodontist and I needed him to get my work done - if it becomes a problem, I can and should bring it up with my company. Often times we are asked to make up for such lost time by working late and on the weekends.

Having flexibility that is applied fairly to all employees is the key here.

[KiKi 0]

Wow, after reading all of this I am soooo grateful for my boss, he's a gem, he NEVER, EVER gives us grief for dealing with family issues,

of course I work for a non-profit childcare resource and referral, so this is what we do.....but again SO thankful to have a great boss AND great co-workers.

I am currently going back to work on January 2nd and my baby is 4 months old, my heart is breaking and I wish everyday I had gone to Canada where the mother-child bonding period is HONORED with a year off.

I am so sad to see that these attitudes are out there.......no wonder we are falling apart as a nation, our priorities are as screwed up as ever.

Sweden has the HIGHEST number of women in the workforce and, not surprisingly, the most support for them with Government funded daycare, huge maternity leaves etc. This country of mine makes me very very sad........

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Just to add to my earlier remarks...did I *ever* miss work for Corey? Of course I did...a few times I missed some hours for school programs and things like that. I was lucky enough that my mom and dad took care of him most of the time. (eta..most of the time and always when he was sick)But..did I also ever cover for other people when *they* missed work?? a LOT of times! I didn't feel so bad the few times I had to miss, either, because when I covered it was usually for pothead kids who got drunk and high earlier and couldn't be bothered to make it in...and they kept their jobs until they had missed so much time it was blatant. So..no guilt here! M.

Edited November 30, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Sweden has the HIGHEST number of women in the workforce and, not surprisingly, the most support for them with Government funded daycare, huge maternity leaves etc. This country of mine makes me very very sad........

And yet, Sweden does NOT pay a price in lower productivity as Sweden has higher GDP per hour worked than the USA. What does this tell you......?

[Jenn! 918]

Sweden has the HIGHEST number of women in the workforce and, not surprisingly, the most support for them with Government funded daycare, huge maternity leaves etc. This country of mine makes me very very sad........

And yet, Sweden does NOT pay a price in lower productivity as Sweden has higher GDP per hour worked than the USA. What does this tell you......?

The Swedes are lazy???

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I know Jenn, what a load of #######!

[Peikko 1,575]

Right.....

So, where I work we're a safety company. The reports we produce enable you, the consumer, to purchase things with a fair idea that they're actually not going to kill you. On my team (we're split into teams to focus on particular industries) we're about 50/50 spawn/spawnless. At least once a week there is someone on my team who is out, has to take an afternoon (or morning) off, is a little late, or whatever excuse you have for dealing with a kid. (don't forget the "parent-teacher conference" dodge.) What this means is that we have 1 less body to deal with incoming work. That means a rush job comes in and goes into my name....shifting things around in priority....delaying companies from being able to ship product. For some industries that can be millions of dollars a day. All because little Melvin missed the bus. It also means that I get asked why things are late. Now take that to the point where there's 2, or 3, or 5 out.

Is this fair? Nope. Is it the real world? Yep.

Sorry, I'm not going to feel all warm and fuzzy about helping out the spawn-enhanced....unless they bring back some nice flu bug to share....and then I just get sick.

That's my .02

You are seriously expecting us all to believe that in the company you work for, the only people who 'abuse' the system are parents, more specifically mothers? I seriously doubt that one. I would bet money that the majority of cover days are required because of the feckless single people who take time off because of hangovers and the like.

[ceriserose 1]

Right.....

So, where I work we're a safety company. The reports we produce enable you, the consumer, to purchase things with a fair idea that they're actually not going to kill you. On my team (we're split into teams to focus on particular industries) we're about 50/50 spawn/spawnless. At least once a week there is someone on my team who is out, has to take an afternoon (or morning) off, is a little late, or whatever excuse you have for dealing with a kid. (don't forget the "parent-teacher conference" dodge.) What this means is that we have 1 less body to deal with incoming work. That means a rush job comes in and goes into my name....shifting things around in priority....delaying companies from being able to ship product. For some industries that can be millions of dollars a day. All because little Melvin missed the bus. It also means that I get asked why things are late. Now take that to the point where there's 2, or 3, or 5 out.

Is this fair? Nope. Is it the real world? Yep.

Sorry, I'm not going to feel all warm and fuzzy about helping out the spawn-enhanced....unless they bring back some nice flu bug to share....and then I just get sick.

That's my .02

You make some good points. I think Jenn has expressed throughout this thread that companies need an across-the-board flexibility work policy. I work in the video game industry which is aging but in the beginning primarily made up of single guys who had no life outside of games. I still work with a lot of guys who are single with no kids, and they'll take time off from work for their doctor's appointments or other errands. Some people will abuse the system. I guess I'm lucky because my company is flexible that as long as you get your work done. There are clear cut expectations as to what each employee must achieve for each milestone. Although we rely on others to get our work done, ultimately it is on our shoulder. If Bob, for example, was out of the office taking his daughter to the orthodontist and I needed him to get my work done - if it becomes a problem, I can and should bring it up with my company. Often times we are asked to make up for such lost time by working late and on the weekends.

Having flexibility that is applied fairly to all employees is the key here.

I think the message that's getting missed by some of the parents on this thread who are getting upset about this concept is that no one doesn't expect parents to need to take some time off for family reasons. But having an expectation that others will pick up the slack (and if they don't they're somehow immoral or hate children), or that others don't deserve due consideration for their own personal needs just because they don't have children is an imbalance.

In my opinion, the issue is more to do with how corporations and business owners operate, and less about helping out a co-worker. And believe me, I've been in the workforce for over 20 years; I've picked up the slack cheerfully many a time for a person with a sick child. I resent the implication that if I don't choose to do so with my free time or my energy that it makes me a worse person than the noble parent who's left work to go bail their kid out of jail or help them stand in line to go get concert tickets (yes, both have happened).

Equal time isn't too much to ask, really.

[ILIKEALLCAPS 0]

You make some good points. I think Jenn has expressed throughout this thread that companies need an across-the-board flexibility work policy. I work in the video game industry which is aging but in the beginning primarily made up of single guys who had no life outside of games. I still work with a lot of guys who are single with no kids, and they'll take time off from work for their doctor's appointments or other errands. Some people will abuse the system. I guess I'm lucky because my company is flexible that as long as you get your work done. There are clear cut expectations as to what each employee must achieve for each milestone. Although we rely on others to get our work done, ultimately it is on our shoulder. If Bob, for example, was out of the office taking his daughter to the orthodontist and I needed him to get my work done - if it becomes a problem, I can and should bring it up with my company. Often times we are asked to make up for such lost time by working late and on the weekends.

Having flexibility that is applied fairly to all employees is the key here.

Very valid points. I have no problem with a policy that allows you to take Jr. to a baseball game.....as long as I get to go to a game when I want, too. As it is, I need to plan at least 2 weeks in advance for anything spontaneous.....and even then I get the disapproving looks. Heck, I've had a supervisor who took a half-day off work so he could drive his kid to school on the first day of school. His 10 year old kid. Who was going to the same school he'd been going to....for the last 5 years. This same person called me....on my personal cell phone....and threatened to fire me if I didn't come in and fix a program. Mind you....this was on Valentine's day, when I had expensive tickets to dinner theatre....and I'd been off work for 6 hours. Screw that. Apply priorities equally and see how much more a team will work together.

[MichelleandCraig 1]

To me, the whole thing really has little to do with parents or childless workers. (sounds stupid considering the topic, I know...) It has everything to do with work ethic...like I mentioned in my earlier post, the majority of the times that I covered for someone (and I did it a LOT...I could always use the money too!) were for single people with hangovers, laziness or some other 'disorder' of that sort. Sometimes it was for moms too...but had nothing to do with their children. They had a migraine, or were 'sick' or whathaveyou. Plenty of parents will do everything in their power to be at work..backup sitters, using personal time or sick time instead of just calling in...etc..and plenty of single people are just as responsible. It's just down to the individual. To me, parents don't take any more 'advantage' of other workers than single workers do of working parents. Maybe it's just my experience, too...but then again, maybe it's just YOUR experience if that's not how it's been where you work. M.