What Happens Without Affirmative Action: The Story Of UCLA

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Exactly. I've been to the hospital recently and most of the physicians that cared for me were minorities. One Hispanic doc and a couple of Middle Eastern fellas. Not only did Affirmative Action not come to mind immediately but it actually never came to mind at all.

Odd there race never entered your mind but you can recall the race of every doctor that treated you, but yet you are color blind.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Here's my take on this:

AA doesn't ensure success. Just because you got a shot doesn't mean you will make it. If you are being treated by a non white professional, that doens't mean they aren't qualified. I'd wager they're better, you know why? Because they have to be.

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/01/178442772/for-a-black-doctor-building-trust-by-slowing-down

What kills me is most people actually think once you get in under AA some secret squirel code is entered into your records and you can just coast your way to a degree. They still have to work just as hard, if not twice as hard to make it.

[Karee 4,191]

What kind of message does it send that white job applicants with a criminal record are more likely to get a call back from the prospective employers than black job applicants with similar qualifications without a criminal record? That's the reality we live in today. That's people being treated differently because of their race - preferential for being white in this case. That's affirmative action, isn't it? But we don't want to talk about that, do we?

So what do you want to do? Force people to hire minorities based on their race? How's that gonna work out? Having people work somewhere where they weren't wanted. I wonder how their co-workers will feel knowing they got the job simply because of their race That sounds like a real recipe for success.

I swear people come up with these silly ideas like AA and never think them through.

[Teddy B 17,252]

This is the most ignorant, racist twaddle I've read in a while.

I speak from the experience of having attended and graduated from an Ivy League institution. I can assure you that in the classroom, there are students of all races, genders, ethnicities and classes who can and do speak from across a spectrum of views, as well as from one view alone. You speak from... where? What experience? Do you have friends who work in college admissions in the US? I do, and it is a job that involves more than numbers. Numbers, my dear, mean squat much of the time. I know more than one recipient of a perfect SAT score and a straight A record at high school who couldn't hack it.

All of you who are making guesses as what it is like at Harvard or Yale should can it. You have zero experience in this realm and are making at best highly uneducated guesses and at worst flat out racist conjecture about the supposed superiority of the white brain.

Is this your first day in P&R?

[Karee 4,191]

Here's my take on this:

AA doesn't ensure success. Just because you got a shot doesn't mean you will make it. If you are being treated by a non white professional, that doens't mean they aren't qualified. I'd wager they're better, you know why? Because they have to be.

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/01/178442772/for-a-black-doctor-building-trust-by-slowing-down

What kills me is most people actually think once you get in under AA some secret squirel code is entered into your records and you can just coast your way to a degree. They still have to work just as hard, if not twice as hard to make it.

Do you have a problem with them basing admissions on income rather than race? It seems this policy has ensured that the university is pretty much back to the racial makeup that it was before affirmative action was ruled illegal. I mean that's the goal here, right?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I'm not sure how you would perform a study like that. Maybe number of malpractice lawsuits? That probably wouldn't be valid though, because the blood sucking lawyers sue over anything these days with the hope of a settlement.

What about the qualified student that was denied a slot at a university because they were the wrong race? I'd like to see those numbers as well.

I'm having a hard time understanding why people have a problem with leveling the playing field based on income and ability to pay, rather than race? In the article I posted, it seemed to have the same effect. Minority enrollment went up.

I don't have a problem with the method used in your article.

I was just commenting on the idea that it's "normal" or "to be expected" that African-American doctors should be immediately suspect as to their actual qualifications, and that this mentality should be blamed on the fact that affirmative action programs exist.

[Peter_Pan 661]

This is the most ignorant, racist twaddle I've read in a while.

I speak from the experience of having attended and graduated from an Ivy League institution. I can assure you that in the classroom, there are students of all races, genders, ethnicities and classes who can and do speak from across a spectrum of views, as well as from one view alone. You speak from... where? What experience? Do you have friends who work in college admissions in the US? I do, and it is a job that involves more than numbers. Numbers, my dear, mean squat much of the time. I know more than one recipient of a perfect SAT score and a straight A record at high school who couldn't hack it.

All of you who are making guesses as what it is like at Harvard or Yale should can it. You have zero experience in this realm and are making at best highly uneducated guesses and at worst flat out racist conjecture about the supposed superiority of the white brain.

Wow! If that is the debate level of an Ivy League graduate, I must be smarter than I think.

You seem to be contradicting yourself from one post to another.

It benefits a university to have a multiplicity of backgrounds, so that students and faculty have their viewpoints challenged.

In case you dont see the contradiction, I'll spell it out for you. I only have a degree from Cocarlatii de Sus, but I manage not to claim that diversity brings multiple perspectives, only to add later that it doesnt matter what your gender/race is, because you can have a variety of points of view despite being white or black.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So what do you want to do? Force people to hire minorities based on their race? How's that gonna work out? Having people work somewhere where they weren't wanted. I wonder how their co-workers will feel knowing they got the job simply because of their race That sounds like a real recipe for success.

I swear people come up with these silly ideas like AA and never think them through.

So what do you want to do? Tell minorities "tough titties"? Tell them to come back as a white person in your next life so they may share in the opportunities of this nation as well?

I've been in hiring positions for a couple decades now and not once did I have to hire a minority person that had less qualifications than a non-minority applicant. Not once. And I have personally hired several hundred people over the years working for different companies hiring all different levels of staff. The idea that AA is about hiring lesser qualified people because they happen to be members of a minority is laughable. It's about leveling the playing field which is still heavily stacked against them.

[Peter_Pan 661]

But you did hire a minority candidate over a white male just as qualified, no?

[Karee 4,191]

I've been in hiring positions for a couple decades now and not once did I have to hire a minority person that had less qualifications than a non-minority applicant. Not once. And I have personally hired several hundred people over the years working for different companies hiring all different levels of staff. The idea that AA is about hiring lesser qualified people because they happen to be members of a minority is laughable. It's about leveling the playing field which is still heavily stacked against them.

How do you level the playing field? By forcing people to select the minority when evaluating equally qualified candidates? That sounds like the definition of racism to me.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I've been in hiring positions for a couple decades now and not once did I have to hire a minority person that had less qualifications than a non-minority applicant. Not once. And I have personally hired several hundred people over the years working for different companies hiring all different levels of staff. The idea that AA is about hiring lesser qualified people because they happen to be members of a minority is laughable. It's about leveling the playing field which is still heavily stacked against them.

How do you level the playing field? By forcing people to select the minority when evaluating equally qualified candidates? That sounds like the definition of racism to me.

I thought I said it quite clearly. Maybe bigger letters will help? Extra color scheme for the relevant part?

I've been in hiring positions for a couple decades now and not once did I have to hire a minority person that had less qualifications than a non-minority applicant. Not once.

[Karee 4,191]

I thought I said it quite clearly. Maybe bigger letters will help? Extra color scheme for the relevant part?

So then there's no logic in having affirmative action at all then.

[Peter_Pan 661]

Think about it this way - two candidates, both equally prepared, one black, one white. You chose the white one. Is that racism?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So then there's no logic in having affirmative action at all then.

Unless AA addresses certain issues in the screening process - that part of the hiring process that precedes the hiring manager seeing a resume.

[RGinWA 816]

Think about it this way - two candidates, both equally prepared, one black, one white. You chose the white one. Is that racism?

It is if you choose him because you're not use to hiring non-whites or if him being white made you feel safer with the choice.