An Upside of Immigration Inforcement

[Ban Hammer 14,216]

I'm not sure who I'd rather have working there -- illegals or convicted felons.

Many of the illegals are un-convicted felons. Putting ex-cons and homeless to work is a good idea.

[Fandango 1,440]

^

|----------------------- NOT LisaD's husband

lol!!!!!! DrunkSanta & PumpkinButt sure would go together tho, no?

Start your own thread if you want to yet again Rally against NAFTA-- and any free trade pact which is really meaningless since its the law. Not like you are asking for its repeal.

Sorry for dumping on your thread but some things needed to be addressed. The issue of illegal immigration seems to get drummed over and over again in one thread after another. I just wish those who are so wound up about it would at least look at the causes. The issues I've brought up with unfair trade are legitimate and I have yet to see anyone directly challenge the crux of the problems within it. It's like complaining about lung cancer without talking about smoking.

Steven, I'm curious...other than moaning about life behind your computer screen about pretty much everything, what are you actually DOING to rally change, since you obviously feel it's needed? Or is this the extent of your action? I asked you this once before, and I don't ever recall an answer

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Start your own thread if you want to yet again Rally against NAFTA-- and any free trade pact which is really meaningless since its the law. Not like you are asking for its repeal.

Sorry for dumping on your thread but some things needed to be addressed. The issue of illegal immigration seems to get drummed over and over again in one thread after another. I just wish those who are so wound up about it would at least look at the causes. The issues I've brought up with unfair trade are legitimate and I have yet to see anyone directly challenge the crux of the problems within it. It's like complaining about lung cancer without talking about smoking.

I'm glad you posted it. It realllyyy pisses me off when people say stuff like "if there are poor Mexicans it's Mexico's problem." There are causes, and they aren't all Mexico's fault.

And even if the U.S. had no role in Mexican poverty and had clean hands, I don't understand how people can be so blinded by their idiotic nationalism that they can't comprehend suffering unless it's experienced by an American. What if the U.S. had a huge crisis, and Mexico was a booming economy? You are a farmer and the U.S. is not helping you. What would you do?

Nevermind. People who make this argument refuse to empathize (if they can) and lack compassion.

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

[Ban Hammer 14,216]

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

so while you're feeling all of this altruism, have you done anything financially for mexico? sent them any money? made it a point to purchase goods only made in mexico? supported a child in poverty there?

edit to add: same questions for you, alex

Edited November 27, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

so while you're feeling all of this altruism, have you done anything financially for mexico? sent them any money? made it a point to purchase goods only made in mexico? supported a child in poverty there?

edit to add: same questions for you, alex

Charles, do you support fair trade?

[desert_fox 32]

Start your own thread if you want to yet again Rally against NAFTA-- and any free trade pact which is really meaningless since its the law. Not like you are asking for its repeal.

Sorry for dumping on your thread but some things needed to be addressed. The issue of illegal immigration seems to get drummed over and over again in one thread after another. I just wish those who are so wound up about it would at least look at the causes. The issues I've brought up with unfair trade are legitimate and I have yet to see anyone directly challenge the crux of the problems within it. It's like complaining about lung cancer without talking about smoking.

I'm glad you posted it. It realllyyy pisses me off when people say stuff like "if there are poor Mexicans it's Mexico's problem." There are causes, and they aren't all Mexico's fault.

And even if the U.S. had no role in Mexican poverty and had clean hands, I don't understand how people can be so blinded by their idiotic nationalism that they can't comprehend suffering unless it's experienced by an American. What if the U.S. had a huge crisis, and Mexico was a booming economy? You are a farmer and the U.S. is not helping you. What would you do?

Nevermind. People who make this argument refuse to empathize (if they can) and lack compassion.

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

You will find that Mexico is a member of OPEC and an oil exporting country.

Their big problem is CORRUPTION... The govt does almost nothing to improve the plight of their citizens...from public education to health services.

They also suffer from a cultural belief that it is macho to have 12 children, even though you have no means of supporting them.....CORRUPTION and OVER-POPULATION.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Start your own thread if you want to yet again Rally against NAFTA-- and any free trade pact which is really meaningless since its the law. Not like you are asking for its repeal.

Sorry for dumping on your thread but some things needed to be addressed. The issue of illegal immigration seems to get drummed over and over again in one thread after another. I just wish those who are so wound up about it would at least look at the causes. The issues I've brought up with unfair trade are legitimate and I have yet to see anyone directly challenge the crux of the problems within it. It's like complaining about lung cancer without talking about smoking.

I'm glad you posted it. It realllyyy pisses me off when people say stuff like "if there are poor Mexicans it's Mexico's problem." There are causes, and they aren't all Mexico's fault.

And even if the U.S. had no role in Mexican poverty and had clean hands, I don't understand how people can be so blinded by their idiotic nationalism that they can't comprehend suffering unless it's experienced by an American. What if the U.S. had a huge crisis, and Mexico was a booming economy? You are a farmer and the U.S. is not helping you. What would you do?

Nevermind. People who make this argument refuse to empathize (if they can) and lack compassion.

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

You will find that Mexico is a member of OPEC and an oil exporting country.

Their big problem is CORRUPTION... The govt does almost nothing to improve the plight of their citizens...from public education to health services.

So why enter into a trade agreement with them if they are so corrupt?

[mawilson 2,133]

For the umpteenth time,

Mexico is NOT a poor country. Their GDP per capita is $10,000 (2005 est.)

So why enter into a trade agreement with them if they are so corrupt?

We do what's good for us. They should do what's good for them. If NAFTA hurts them so bad, they shouldn't have signed it.

[Ban Hammer 14,216]

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

so while you're feeling all of this altruism, have you done anything financially for mexico? sent them any money? made it a point to purchase goods only made in mexico? supported a child in poverty there?

edit to add: same questions for you, alex

Charles, do you support fair trade?

are you playing dodge the question again, steven?

[peejay 327]

Start your own thread if you want to yet again Rally against NAFTA-- and any free trade pact which is really meaningless since its the law. Not like you are asking for its repeal.

Sorry for dumping on your thread but some things needed to be addressed. The issue of illegal immigration seems to get drummed over and over again in one thread after another. I just wish those who are so wound up about it would at least look at the causes. The issues I've brought up with unfair trade are legitimate and I have yet to see anyone directly challenge the crux of the problems within it. It's like complaining about lung cancer without talking about smoking.

I'm glad you posted it. It realllyyy pisses me off when people say stuff like "if there are poor Mexicans it's Mexico's problem." There are causes, and they aren't all Mexico's fault.

And even if the U.S. had no role in Mexican poverty and had clean hands, I don't understand how people can be so blinded by their idiotic nationalism that they can't comprehend suffering unless it's experienced by an American. What if the U.S. had a huge crisis, and Mexico was a booming economy? You are a farmer and the U.S. is not helping you. What would you do?

Nevermind. People who make this argument refuse to empathize (if they can) and lack compassion.

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

You will find that Mexico is a member of OPEC and an oil exporting country.

Their big problem is CORRUPTION... The govt does almost nothing to improve the plight of their citizens...from public education to health services.

They also suffer from a cultural belief that it is macho to have 12 children, even though you have no means of supporting them.....CORRUPTION and OVER-POPULATION.

Ditto.

When a nation doubles its population every 25 years through internal births without the resources to support the increase...whose fault is that? If you can't feed 'em...don't breed 'em. Mexico might learn something from China in regards to coming to grips with unsustainable population growth.

Instead...all they do is b*tch about any attempt by the USA to control their illegal dumping of their own citizens to the USA to push the burden on us.

[Traviesa 0]

For the umpteenth time,

Mexico is NOT a poor country. Their GDP per capita is $10,000 (2005 est.)

So why enter into a trade agreement with them if they are so corrupt?

We do what's good for us. They should do what's good for them. If NAFTA hurts them so bad, they shouldn't have signed it.

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600. You may think that $400 doesn't really constitute a big deal, or something worthy of posting, but that kind of exaggeration to try and strengthen an argument tends to weaken it when the reality of things is presented. There's a big difference between $10,000 and $9,600, much more than the literal $400...$10,000 looks so much better on paper. To better explain what I mean, I might have taken your statement for exactly what it says, and you may have convinced me of something, if I didn't know any better. But since I happen to know better, whatever you say now holds no water. How's this for some numbers-and this is taken straight out of my hardship letter...

While unemployment is listed as a low 3.2%, this is misleading as the CIA Factbook points out that an incredible 25% of the population is underemployed. If somehow Melissa could secure employment in Mexico, it is doubtful she would ever make a salary comparable to a US salary. The CIA World Factbook puts the current per capita GDP of Mexico at $9,600, compared with $40,100 in the US . If her salary in Mexico were less than a one fifth of what it is in the US, she would be unable to support herself, unable to pay for needed healthcare, and unable to pay her past debts for her college degree to be an accountant .

[one...two...tree 2,762]

We do what's good for us. They should do what's good for them. If NAFTA hurts them so bad, they shouldn't have signed it.

But that gets back to the issue of our problem with illegal immigrants and the cause of influx into this country. If we want to look at real solutions, we need to restructure NAFTA so as to keep the Mexican farmers in business.

Edited November 27, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[mawilson 2,133]

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600.

I took the numbers right out of the CIA World Factbook. It says $10,000, not $9,600.

But that gets back to the issue of our problem with illegal immigrants and the cause of influx into this country. If we want to look at real solutions, we need to restructure NAFTA so as to keep the Mexican farmers in business.

We may be able to fix Mexico, but we can't fix every other country in the world.

There will always be people wanting to cross the border and the only "real solution"

is to secure it.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

so while you're feeling all of this altruism, have you done anything financially for mexico? sent them any money? made it a point to purchase goods only made in mexico? supported a child in poverty there?

edit to add: same questions for you, alex

Charles, do you support fair trade?

are you playing dodge the question again, steven?

I vote and Congress ratified NAFTA 10 years ago. Congress needs to re-examine that trade agreement with what they hoped it would do (reduce illegal immigration) and fix what is broken. How about it, Charles? Do you support fair trade?

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600.

I took the numbers right out of the CIA World Factbook. It says $10,000, not $9,600.

But that gets back to the issue of our problem with illegal immigrants and the cause of influx into this country. If we want to look at real solutions, we need to restructure NAFTA so as to keep the Mexican farmers in business.

We may be able to fix Mexico, but we can't fix every other country in the world.

There will always be people wanting to cross the border and the only "real solution"

is to secure it.

I agree, Mark. I'm just trying to point here as I've done several times on the countless illegal immigration posts that NAFTA is part of the problem and therefore we can look to help solve the issue by restructuring that trade agreement to make it fair to the Mexican farmers.

[Traviesa 0]

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600.

I took the numbers right out of the CIA World Factbook. It says $10,000, not $9,600.

Well I just checked myself and it does, in fact, say $10,000. I'm just trying to figure out why it would have changed. Our lawyer wrote this in the last half of last year-is it really possible that the GDP would have had a 4% increase in such a short period of time? That doesn't make sense to me. I also noticed that their unemployment figure had changed from what was stated previously...well anyway, I stand corrected. It does in fact say $10,000.

however....

Even if it is $10,000, is it just me, or does that not really sound like a whole lot? Particularly put up next to ours right around $40,100. And who all is making this $10,000? To take this down to real life examples, I can definitely relate to the US figure-that sounds about right to me, I know there's plenty of individuals who make right about that much (myself included, and I'm really not all that special) and plenty who make more, as well as those who make less. Then we have this Mexico figure. I just did a quick calculation of Javier's weekly salary multiplied by 52 weeks in a year and came up with $4,160, which is about half of that supposed per capita GDP. And, from my (limited, but concrete) experience, what he makes down there is fairly well average. I just think it's interesting that what I consider "average" for this country, pretty much matches up to what our actual GDP per capita is, whereas the reality of average for Mexico is less than half of their per capita GDP. I just think that the numbers we're seeing there are not a good reflection of the MAJORITY reality down there. I am well aware that there are plenty of wealthy Mexicans, including politicians and actors...