Country cracking down on "Race mixing".

[decocker 7,198]

I think you are dealing in the far margins to make a point.

considering that has always been your response to me, smh. these are not far margins, but a very small piece of a huge divide that occurred within the southern baptist church in the early - mid nineties.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I am not dis-agreeing with any of this. I merely responded to the small point in an above post referencing whether there is institutional racism outside Israel.

I agree that racism/ethnic prejudice exists at least in some form in most societies, but most other "Western democracies" are not doing "Jim Crow 2013," which is what's going on inside Israel, not to mention in the occupied West Bank. Imagine if in this day and age, there was a law saying a Jew cannot marry a non-Jew in the US, or England, or.... Germany That would be like Nazi-ish.

[Danno 1,228]

Maybe inbreeding explains the tea-party?!

NOw that sounds like the voice of experience.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Just as an example of how far things have gone in Israel, Shas (the Orthodox settler party) actually ran this as their campaign ad for this year's elections:

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I should have put a little explanation...

Shas was traditionally one of the parties of the Sephardim (Arab Jews - mostly Jews from North Africa - Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, etc.) and many of its leaders are of MENA heritage.

This ad directly targets Russian Jewish immigrants to Israel, who have been long accused by some religious leaders of not actually being Jewish. (About 1/2 of the Russian immigrants are admittedly not Jewish and do not represent themselves as Jewish, but the 1/2 who do are often subject to suspicion by the orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. Some have to undergo "conversions" just to get married to Jews in Israel.)

So the million or so Israeli citizens of Russian origin see this ad as hugely offensive and racist.

What's even more twisted is that Eli Yishai (one of Shas's rather brown-complexioned leaders of Tunisian heritage) actually stated last year to an Israeli newspaper that "this country belongs to us, to the white man."

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

For reference: Eli Yishai

[Caryh 5,206]

What happens to other faith people who have sex with a Muslim in an increasing number of Islamic countries?

My wife an I stayed at a small resort next to a Muslim fishing village, which provided each room with their own personal attendant. Ours was a young Muslim woman of age 19. She had grown up on an island under Sharia law, and happened to get pregnant by her Catholic boyfriend when she was 17. She proudly explained how her bf converted to Islam so they could marry and she would not have to be stoned to death. She also was happy that they were so modern now, because in her mother's time she would not have had that option and her family didn't have to kill him for revenge.

I don't think what Israelis are doing is right, but they're hardly alone and hardly the worse in the world.

I should have put a little explanation...

Shas was traditionally one of the parties of the Sephardim (Arab Jews - mostly Jews from North Africa - Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, etc.) and many of its leaders are of MENA heritage.

This ad directly targets Russian Jewish immigrants to Israel, who have been long accused by some religious leaders of not actually being Jewish. (About 1/2 of the Russian immigrants are admittedly not Jewish and do not represent themselves as Jewish, but the 1/2 who do are often subject to suspicion by the orthodox and ultra-Orthodox. Some have to undergo "conversions" just to get married to Jews in Israel.)

So the million or so Israeli citizens of Russian origin see this ad as hugely offensive and racist.

What's even more twisted is that Eli Yishai (one of Shas's rather brown-complexioned leaders of Tunisian heritage) actually stated last year to an Israeli newspaper that "this country belongs to us, to the white man."

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What happens to other faith people who have sex with a Muslim in an increasing number of Islamic countries?

My wife an I stayed at a small resort next to a Muslim fishing village, which provided each room with their own personal attendant. Ours was a young Muslim woman of age 19. She had grown up on an island under Sharia law, and happened to get pregnant by her Catholic boyfriend when she was 17. She proudly explained how her bf converted to Islam so they could marry and she would not have to be stoned to death. She also was happy that they were so modern now, because in her mother's time she would not have had that option and her family didn't have to kill him for revenge.

I don't think what Israelis are doing is right, but they're hardly alone and hardly the worse in the world.

Hasbara Talking Point #87 - "We're better than Yemen !"

This actually falls under Step #2 of "How to Make the Case for Israel and Win":

1. We rock

2. They suck

3. You suck

4. Everything sucks

...

Then you go into the second point: They suck. Here you talk about the legal system of Saudi Arabia, gay rights in Iran, slave trade in the Sudan, Mohammad Atta, the burqa, Palestinians dancing after 9/11, Arafat's facial hair, etc.

There is only one additional principle you need to understand here. It will separate you from the amateurs. You need to know your audience. If you've got a crowd already disposed to racist logic, go for it with everything you have. But if you get a liberal crowd, you need to sugar coat the racism a bit. Focus on women rights, human rights, religious tolerance, "clash of civilizations", terrorism, they teach their children to hate, etc. Deep down your audience WANTS to enjoy racism and feel superior. They just need the proper encouragement so they can keep their sophisticated self-image. Give them what they crave and they'll adore you! But be careful not to 'mix n match,' because it will cost you credibility.

When you're done, there will always be dead-enders insisting that abuse of gays in Iran does not justify ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Take a deep breath, and pull the doomsday weapon: You suck!

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html

[Caryh 5,206]

Hasbara Talking Point #87 - "We're better than Yemen !"

This actually falls under Step #2 of "How to Make the Case for Israel and Win":

So apparently you think stoning people to death is a good thing?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So apparently you think stoning people to death is a good thing?

Was that an attempt at Step #3: "You suck" ? Then #4 must not be far behind...

No, actually, I don't think that stoning people to death is "a good thing." But it still has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

[Caryh 5,206]

Ah yes back to quoting a justification system that allows you to ignore anything but the narrow point of view you've been taught. OK let me make it clear to you. Israel maybe jailing a Muslim for 18 months for lying about his religion to get sex, but in Islamic states, under Islamic law, a man having sex with a woman while being honest about it can be put to death. But that doesn't matter to you, because of course that is your religion, and so its OK because you can read it in the Koran.

You've put forth this idea of the great peaceful state of Palestine where all religions lived in peace. Tell me about this wonderful country that existed before the evil Jews moved in and took it away from them. Who was its enlightened leaders? What was its Constitution? What form of government did they have that created this utopia? Wait what's this I read, Palestine didn't even have a government until it was created after Israel was created? So it was always ruled by outside countries? The UK, Syria, the Ottoman Empire, Egypt, the list goes on, but a country called Palestine never existed. When it was attempted to create a country called Palestine and Israel, the Arabs in Palestine couldn't accept that, so they went to war and LOST. Israel created a country, and many Arabs living there refused to accept that. They went to war again and again and LOST. They gave up the chance to be a part of that country or form their own and Arab neighbors took over that land that was not Israel and told them it was part of their country now. And they went to war for the land now called Israel and LOST, again and again. These same neighboring countries drove out the Jews who then moved to Israel. In fact it was a number larger than the Arabs that left the lands now called the country of Israel.

Palestinians have been living by the sword and dying by the sword since Israel was formed. They could of had their own country, but these peaceful people who only wanted ti live side by side with their neighbors of other religions couldn't accept land they did not rule, even when they had never ever in history ruled that land themselves. The Palestinian people have been made pawns by those that wish to rule and enrich themselves. They've been cannon fodder for surrounding countries that also occupy lands around Israel that could have been a country called Palestine. But the leaders of this budding attempt at a country have never wanted peace, they have wanted it all, and ended up with nothing. Even when they had the opportunity to create partially autonomous states under Israel, what did they choose? They went to war with each other on who would control these scraps of land. Peaceful coexistence my ####. History does not show the leaders of Palestinians as ever having ruled over a peaceful country or any country.

Was that an attempt at Step #3: "You suck" ? Then #4 must not be far behind...

No, actually, I don't think that stoning people to death is "a good thing." But it still has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Ah yes back to quoting a justification system that allows you to ignore anything but the narrow point of view you've been taught. OK let me make it clear to you. Israel maybe jailing a Muslim for 18 months for lying about his religion to get sex, but in Islamic states, under Islamic law, a man having sex with a woman while being honest about it can be put to death. But that doesn't matter to you, because of course that is your religion, and so its OK because you can read it in the Koran.

You've put forth this idea of the great peaceful state of Palestine where all religions lived in peace. Tell me about this wonderful country that existed before the evil Jews moved in and took it away from them. Who was its enlightened leaders? What was its Constitution? What form of government did they have that created this utopia? Wait what's this I read, Palestine didn't even have a government until it was created after Israel was created? So it was always ruled by outside countries? The UK, Syria, the Ottoman Empire, Egypt, the list goes on, but a country called Palestine never existed. When it was attempted to create a country called Palestine and Israel, the Arabs in Palestine couldn't accept that, so they went to war and LOST. Israel created a country, and many Arabs living there refused to accept that. They went to war again and again and LOST. They gave up the chance to be a part of that country or form their own and Arab neighbors took over that land that was not Israel and told them it was part of their country now. And they went to war for the land now called Israel and LOST, again and again. These same neighboring countries drove out the Jews who then moved to Israel. In fact it was a number larger than the Arabs that left the lands now called the country of Israel.

Palestinians have been living by the sword and dying by the sword since Israel was formed. They could of had their own country, but these peaceful people who only wanted ti live side by side with their neighbors of other religions couldn't accept land they did not rule, even when they had never ever in history ruled that land themselves. The Palestinian people have been made pawns by those that wish to rule and enrich themselves. They've been cannon fodder for surrounding countries that also occupy lands around Israel that could have been a country called Palestine. But the leaders of this budding attempt at a country have never wanted peace, they have wanted it all, and ended up with nothing. Even when they had the opportunity to create partially autonomous states under Israel, what did they choose? They went to war with each other on who would control these scraps of land. Peaceful coexistence my ####. History does not show the leaders of Palestinians as ever having ruled over a peaceful country or any country.

I hate coming in late to a thread like this. But I will add my .02 cents because I see this going in a darker direction:

In different countries they intepret the Q'uran differently, some take a more relaxed approach towards it, others take it to the letter. I've never been to Pakistan or Isreal so I can't say either way what's right or wrong for those countries. But I will say that a lot of the gospel in the Bible is similar to Islam, remember you could get stoned for adultry back then. And having sex before marriage was considered a big sin. I had to convert when I married my wife almost 2 years ago, but she wouldn't have been killed if I didn't. Because in her country it's Islamic law, but more relaxed. The only difference between Americans and Middle Easterns is we've grown away from what the Bible says in detail, we use the parts we like and disregard the rest. Over there, they obey it. Not saying they are better for it, but it might put this in a better perspective.

[Caryh 5,206]

I hate coming in late to a thread like this. But I will add my .02 cents because I see this going in a darker direction:

In different countries they intepret the Q'uran differently, some take a more relaxed approach towards it, others take it to the letter. I've never been to Pakistan or Isreal so I can't say either way what's right or wrong for those countries. But I will say that a lot of the gospel in the Bible is similar to Islam, remember you could get stoned for adultry back then. And having sex before marriage was considered a big sin. I had to convert when I married my wife almost 2 years ago, but she wouldn't have been killed if I didn't. Because in her country it's Islamic law, but more relaxed. The only difference between Americans and Middle Easterns is we've grown away from what the Bible says in detail, we use the parts we like and disregard the rest. Over there, they obey it. Not saying they are better for it, but it might put this in a better perspective.

But one is still throwing stones and the other is not. I believe the Jews were the ones advocating stoning, Christianity officially ended that when Jesus said "who ever is without sin, cast the first stone". Islam came later an picked up stone again. Yes, some Islamic cultures got more relaxed, but now Wahhabi Islam is making a big come back even in those countries that were once more relaxed.

I honestly feel bad for Muslim people that have been thrust into war all over the world for a few that want power. Their leaders cannot deliver the goods to their people because so often they're busy enriching themselves and their cronies. So how do they keep the people in the land they control or wish to control? They use hate. They teach them its the Jew's or Christian's fault. They point to the Koran where it says its a sin to live under an non-muslim government, then they demand all other faiths accept their faith and let them rule over them or they bring war and/or terrorism. And if the government is one of those that take a more relaxed approach, they go after that government and demand they convert to Wahhabi Islam and strict Shiria law. It starts in small steps, religious patrols making sure young people are not acting too wild. Then short after they're beating women who didn't wear a burka, to stoning or whipping men and women who are together but not family. With woman who are not allowed to work, go to school, or drive a car. Who they demand become sequestered in the home unless a male relative takes them out.

I've known many Muslims over the years, most are just regular good people that want to live their life and be happy. The mistake they seem to make is they make excuses for the extremists. They join up with the fallacy that the Jews, Christians or the West created all their problems. They embrace and make excuses for the hate mongers who only want power for its own sake. And then one day they find they are also in war or terrorism plagued area and that living their life and finding happiness isn't so easy any longer. Those that can move elsewhere, and then the extremists follow them there, and soon they're starting the same cycle in a new location.

Have Christians done this to? Damn straight they have, witness Northern Ireland not so long ago. Its still tense there. But certainly not on the scale that is going on in the Islamic world. And you don't have an entire religion's population making excuses for the acts of terror committed by them. In fact people condemn those acts almost universally. Which is why its not happening all over the world where Christianity exists. When Islam and the Palestinians stop making excuses for those that preach war and terrorism so they can have power, condemning them instead, then they will find peace. But I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen, because they appear to be finding more justification to make their excuses as the abuses of some in their religion get worse and spread.

[decocker 7,198]

Dr. David Liepert, author of "Muslim, Christian and Jew." All of us think that our religion is 'good' and that those in apparent (and often politically motivated) opposition to it are 'bad.' But the real truth is that all of our religions are equally guilty of being used to promote violence, and-thanks to centuries of political manipulation that have distorted the way we read our holy books -- all of us are equally guilty of not following what our religions really say. ..."

muslimchristianandjew

[james&olya 1,121]

NOw that sounds like the voice of experience.

At least you are consistent!

Dannologic, flawed yesterday, flawed today, and undoubtedly will be flawed tomorrow!