Ariz. specialist killed herself in Iraq weeks after objection

[Marc and Olga 0]

So what? Do you have any idea how many suicides the services experience in a single year?

The U.S. Navy has at least one to two per deployment of each aircraft carrier, for various reasons and sometimes no reason is given.

Oh well. There's no "cure" for life, is there? Not even suicide.

What an a$$....

Just stating the facts, mam....Take a midol and come back later

Your response is a knee slapper ...But it still makes you no less an a$$...

The point my dense friend is that there are many suicides committed each year by military personnel. Sad but true.

It's clear that one is mentally unstable to do such a thing and it's absurd to think that a single political issue would bring a person to do such a thing.

One would have to be "dense" to assume that an "Army Interrogation Officer" is not effected daily by the "political issue" of "torture".

[ChristinaM 0]

Deeply traumatised, more than "mentally unstable", perhaps.

From the article, this young woman was quiet and unassuming. It's likely safe to say that it wasn't a series of rowdy arguments which lead her to hate her life so much she wished to end it. I think it's not an unreasonable assumption that what she saw as part of her job lead to the belief that she couldn't go on living - and that what she was being asked to do was outside the scope of what she had been trained to do.

She got a dergee in Psychology - so what? At least she was smart enough to go to college. Many people take a degree in a field that they're interested in, knowing that it will help them in their future life even if they don't wish to follow the specific field they studied. I think some people are reading too much into it.

Suicide - any suicide - is a crying shame. For anyone to say "so what?" is uncalled for. Remember that that young woman was somebody's daughter, somebody's friend, maybe somebody's lover. Perhaps it's the "nothing but a number" mentality which allows people to support the war so ardently and fervently despite the human costs on both sides; those of you who have been in the military and have seen friends die should know better.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

For anyone to say "so what?" is uncalled for. Remember that that young woman was somebody's daughter, somebody's friend, maybe somebody's lover. Perhaps it's the "nothing but a number" mentality which allows people to support the war so ardently and fervently despite the human costs on both sides; those of you who have been in the military and have seen friends die should know better.

Considering that the 'usual suspects' making the "so what" claims and "snuffed herself" comments are constantly berating others for denigrating the military - its perhaps no surprise to see that they, like the government only appear to support the troops when they say the right thing.

And yes - considering the state of mind someone has to be in to commit suicide, it really is a tragedy - what pushed her over the edge is really irrelevant.

Edited November 6, 2006 by erekose

[Carol&Marc 0]

Deeply traumatised, more than "mentally unstable", perhaps.

From the article, this young woman was quiet and unassuming. It's likely safe to say that it wasn't a series of rowdy arguments which lead her to hate her life so much she wished to end it. I think it's not an unreasonable assumption that what she saw as part of her job lead to the belief that she couldn't go on living - and that what she was being asked to do was outside the scope of what she had been trained to do.

She got a dergee in Psychology - so what? At least she was smart enough to go to college. Many people take a degree in a field that they're interested in, knowing that it will help them in their future life even if they don't wish to follow the specific field they studied. I think some people are reading too much into it.

Suicide - any suicide - is a crying shame. For anyone to say "so what?" is uncalled for. Remember that that young woman was somebody's daughter, somebody's friend, maybe somebody's lover. Perhaps it's the "nothing but a number" mentality which allows people to support the war so ardently and fervently despite the human costs on both sides; those of you who have been in the military and have seen friends die should know better.

Christina the writer was using this to show how the military makes people kill themselves. Who knows what was on this poor woman's mind. The writer was TRYING to connect her suicide to her job in the military. There could have been many reasons she did it.

Snuffed is another word for kill don't try to turn it in to something it's not, Clairvoyant are we. TYPICAL

Edited November 6, 2006 by Carol&Marc

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Snuffed is another word for kill don't try to turn it in to something it's not, Clairvoyant are we. TYPICAL

I know I've heard that before... Ah yes, here we go:

Please answer these simple questions:

why do you have the freedom of speech?

Because, as Steven pointed out, a bunch of people in the eighteenth century decided that would be a good thing. Why did they decide so? Because they read a bunch of mostly French books explaining how a good society balanced individual freedoms with communal responsibility, meaning idea of freedom is based on the idea of reciprocity between governing and governed.

However, while this principle was enshrined in the bill of rights (not the declaration of independence or the constitution), it was abridged by the governing authorities as early as 1797. Why? Because the governing authorities viewed popular dissent (particularly by supporters of the opposing party) as a threat to their unabated power. Interestingly, rather than telling people they didn't have the freedom of speech anymore, the Adams administration just called everyone who disagreed a foreign spy, hence the moniker Alien and Sedition Act. Most shocking fact in this context: Th. Jefferson himself was accused of posing a threat to the government and Americans and was sought for trial by some town in Connecticut.

how did this right come about?

See above. The right came about because of the insufficiencies of the constitution. Importantly, it is an outgrowth of the French enlightenment. The revolution itself has nothing to do with it, as it was primarily fought over taxation and imperial expansion (no the British did not want their colonial subjects to move west of the thirteen colonies).

How many died for this right?

Lots of people but not during official battlefield actions. The Freedom of Speech has been abridged way too often and every time people (many of whom are unnamed and still branded traitors) died. What is happening now is just another episode of oppression in the name of patriotism.

were you born in the U.S.

No, but I live here. And I do consider this question an insult because it suggests that only native born Americans have the right to free speech or to speak their mind. But as the Alien and Sedition Act and all the other incursions on free speech demonstrate, this move is typical of a certain brand of people who do not understand the right to free speech as reciprocal.

Do you love America? If yes why?

Yes, I do, but not in the same way you do. America happens to be my work, and I am heavily invested in preserving the spirit of the constitution in everything I do.

For me, American is not some thing that only lives in symbols, such as the flag, the pledge, the larger-than-life images of the founders (all of which are meaningless because they obscure the beauty with a bunch of empty phrases). No, America is the here and now, the blood spillled by those excluded from the political process, and the past which is rich and more than just a list of military victories.

Is president Bush EVIL ?

How do I know, I haven't met him. I also don't consider people to be plain evil. I believe Bush is acting against America because rather than focusing on the communal good and communal responsibility he furthers individual interests, thus abolishing the central tenet of reciprocity so dear to the founders. The word "evil" oversimplifies the complex nature of the problem.

Why is President Bush like HITLER? if yes HOW?

Dude, that is possible the least appealing of your questions because it attests to your indoctrination. The answer is fairly simple. No, Bush is not like Hitler. For one thing, he lacks the intelligence; for another, Hitler was a decorated war veteran who defended his nation in WW I. There are, however, certain parallels concerning their understanding of national security (to secure a nation you need to abridge the rights of its inhabitants) and of their office (the leader of a country should hold as much power as humanly possible; hence democratic process are deemed dangerous and information that needs to be accessible to the general public to ensure democratic dialogue is classified)

But since I have just answered your questions, I'd like to hear your answers to the following:

1a.) What is a liberal? And please don't give me some blanket answer but take the time to provide your own personal explication together with some concrete examples.

1b.) Why are liberals endangering America?

2.) Why was it ok to impeach Clinton over a stained dressed but not ok to even question Bush's decisions in the aftermath of 9/11?

3.) What does the Patriot Act have to do with Patriotism if it defeats the tenets of the founders?

4.) If we assume the War of Independence and the War of 1812 was fought to ensure liberty to Americans, then how can we defend any war that abridges those liberties?

5.) Why do we always need to blame foreigners for everything that is wrong with this country?

6.) Why do we view America as an anti-imperialist nation and a champion of the oppressed around the world? What does the colonial legacy tell us about America's colonialism?

They are not answers! they are simple anti american opinions!

Something it isn't?

[Carol&Marc 0]

Let it go..................Baited questions will get you no where.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Let it go..................Baited questions will get you no where.

Nothing baited about it - According to you this is a "simple anti-american" opinion:

For me, American is not some thing that only lives in symbols, such as the flag, the pledge, the larger-than-life images of the founders (all of which are meaningless because they obscure the beauty with a bunch of empty phrases). No, America is the here and now, the blood spillled by those excluded from the political process, and the past which is rich and more than just a list of military victories.

[garya505 2]

Very tenuous to connect her "objections to interrogation" with subsequent suicide. Hard to see what one has to do with the other.

There is certainly above average suicide rate in the armed forces of most countries - in some instances its the result of institutionalised bullying. Russia for instance, is notorious for that sort of thing. Even in Britain, there has never been a satisfactory explanation to the rash of "suicides" at the Deepcut army barracks - something that always seemed very sinister to me.

What I found important to the story was that here was a highly trained interrogation officer objecting to the methods being used months before the photos were released from Abu Graihb. That confirms that what happened was not just some rogue guards getting their kicks with the detainees. The abuse was instituted within command.

Obviously a highly trained interrogation officer whose also a very troubled individual.

All it confirms is that she was suicidal.

The abuse could have very well been "instituted within command", but one suicidal person doesn't prove or disprove that.

[David and Karen 0]

[quote name='kaydee457' date='Nov 6 2006, 04:43 PM'

Oh, I'm sorry...Then you must be a Canadian

That ranks right up there with those my 2nd grader goes to school with.

Edited November 7, 2006 by David and Karen

[bucknekkid 0]

So what? Do you have any idea how many suicides the services experience in a single year?

The U.S. Navy has at least one to two per deployment of each aircraft carrier, for various reasons and sometimes no reason is given.

Oh well. There's no "cure" for life, is there? Not even suicide.

What an a$$....

Just stating the facts, mam....Take a midol and come back later

Your response is a knee slapper ...But it still makes you no less an a$$...

The point my dense friend is that there are many suicides committed each year by military personnel. Sad but true.

It's clear that one is mentally unstable to do such a thing and it's absurd to think that a single political issue would bring a person to do such a thing.

I am neither dense, your friend, or deaf..You may want to take a dose of your own Midol medicine and come back later mam...

Oh, I'm sorry...Then you must be a Canadian

Dang, a quick check of my profile and a 50/50 chance to get citizenship correct, and ya missed it man...

DENSE sir, is you flaming every Canadian on this forum, with that more than stupid remark...

Enter sir, into your next level of a$$...and it shall be called... DUMB A$$....

[kaydee457 13]

So what? Do you have any idea how many suicides the services experience in a single year?

The U.S. Navy has at least one to two per deployment of each aircraft carrier, for various reasons and sometimes no reason is given.

Oh well. There's no "cure" for life, is there? Not even suicide.

What an a$$....

Just stating the facts, mam....Take a midol and come back later

Your response is a knee slapper ...But it still makes you no less an a$$...

The point my dense friend is that there are many suicides committed each year by military personnel. Sad but true.

It's clear that one is mentally unstable to do such a thing and it's absurd to think that a single political issue would bring a person to do such a thing.

I am neither dense, your friend, or deaf..You may want to take a dose of your own Midol medicine and come back later mam...

Oh, I'm sorry...Then you must be a Canadian

Dang, a quick check of my profile and a 50/50 chance to get citizenship correct, and ya missed it man...

DENSE sir, is you flaming every Canadian on this forum, with that more than stupid remark...

Enter sir, into your next level of a$$...and it shall be called... DUMB A$$....

Ok dumbass. I'll let you have the last word......

[Ban Hammer 14,647]

Obviously a highly trained interrogation officer whose also a very troubled individual.

where does everyone keep getting that idea? i'm betting those in her unit regarded her as the fng as she was fresh outta ait, a freaking newbie. just because she graduated from ait does not make her "highly trained" so let's ditch that phrase.

[DeadPoolX 9]

where does everyone keep getting that idea? i'm betting those in her unit regarded her as the fng as she was fresh outta ait, a freaking newbie. just because she graduated from ait does not make her "highly trained" so let's ditch that phrase.

Well, I think what people are confusing here is "training" versus "experience." She may have been "highly trained" but she lacked the necessary on-the-job experience to really become efficient and good at what she does. Experience counts for a lot, especially in the realm of interrogation. There's only so much you can learn from books, classes, and other training sessions.