Islamophoibia in the US

[^_^ 5,021]

Now, I am scared.

don't be. evil can be defeated.

[justashooter 430]

if you are interested in what jihad really means - theologically speaking - you must turn off the wnd and stormfront and other assorted neo-nazi portals and go to the primary source.

if this concept is difficult to grasp, i blame the poor state of education in the great state of pennsyltucky.

your personal insult is received at face value (none).

i understand the meaning of the word as given in text.

i also understand the meaning of the word as given in cultural context.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

in islam extremism is the squeaky wheel, and it is too much steering the machine.

sure, lots of islamics live peacefully. i make no reference to them.

then, lots of islamics make "holy war" under order of jihad.

their reputation preceeds them.

[^_^ 5,021]

i understand the meaning of the word as given in text.

i also understand the meaning of the word as given in cultural context.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

in islam extremism is the squeaky wheel, and it is too much steering the machine.

sure, lots of islamics live peacefully. i make no reference to them.

then, lots of islamics make "holy war" under order of jihad.

their reputation preceeds them.

A good answer I can agree with.

The Patriot - This is what happens when you let an extremist know you're watching. They suddenly become reasonable.

[justashooter 430]

A good answer I can agree with.

The Patriot - This is what happens when you let an extremist know you're watching. They suddenly become reasonable.

does this work with islamic extremists? you see, i am from a christian background...

[^_^ 5,021]

does this work with islamic extremists? you see, i am from a christian background...

Your past posts belie your alleged Christian faith.

[justashooter 430]

Your past posts belie your alleged Christian faith.

there you go, trying to define someone's religion, again.

[^_^ 5,021]

there you go, trying to define someone's religion, again.

My apologies if I offended you by calling you Christian. I didn't realize it was such a grievous insult to you and your people.

[nurse1967 287]

Even though there is Islamaphobia present in the USA, there is a general distaste for all immigrant groups. In the past, when immigrants came to the USA they strived to acclimate and assimilate into the American culture. Now, many immigrants come to America and demand that we bend over backward to learn their language and culture. I believe this is what fuels the current anti-immigrant sentiment seen in the USA.

[Laveau 67]

Great point, Betsy.

[JohnR! 5,495]

This wasn't meant to spark a religious debate.

All Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Eternal Son of God incarnate and is worthy of all worship and adoration. They also believe that the there are three persons existent as one essence called God (Father, Son (who came as Jesus Christ), Holy Spirit), and that all are equally worthy of worship as they are one single God.

If you want to believe that this is the same God of Islam, by all means go ahead.

Like I said before, while I disagree with you, I will by no means disrespect you. Though sometimes I'm not as respectful as I should be.

It is the one and same god. The Quran refers to Jesus as 'the messiah'. Furthermore, the god in the trinity to which you refer, is the god of Avraham. Same god for all three religions.

It is not a matter or personal belief. It is really a matter of reading the scriptures.

[JohnR! 5,495]

does this work with islamic extremists? you see, i am from a christian background...

Rationale hardly ever works with extremists. Muslim extremists are no different than the garden variety christian extremists you find in the WBC, or through the voice of Jerry Falwell and his ilk. In both cases they only mock the faith they falsely claim to honor.

[bsd058 296]

It is the one and same god. The Quran refers to Jesus as 'the messiah'. Furthermore, the god in the trinity to which you refer, is the god of Avraham. Same god for all three religions.

It is not a matter or personal belief. It is really a matter of reading the scriptures.

Is it? So a muslim would have no problem saying that Jesus Christ is God?

[^_^ 5,021]

Is it? So a muslim would have no problem saying that Jesus Christ is God?

Jesus is a prophet in Islam. Mohammad was the last prophet.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Is it? So a muslim would have no problem saying that Jesus Christ is God?

I don't think Muslims and Jews recognize the idea of the trilogy. That is a notion specific to Christianity not shared by its sister religions.

On a positive note, what Christians, Muslims and Jews call god is the very same entity. The only difference is in the prophets, but the source, the almighty god, creator of everything, is one and the same.

In the end itnreally doesn't matter. The basic principles of all three are the same.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Gegel

[bsd058 296]

Jesus is a prophet in Islam. Mohammad was the last prophet.

Therein lies the difference then, doesn't it? The New Testament does not merely ascribe to Jesus the title prophet, nor is it enough to call Jesus the messiah. The only one that can save people from their sin is God himself. He does not merely forgive sin without death. This would make him unjust. Sin must be punished, and the wages of sin paid for (which is death).

The Apostle John clearly wrote in his Gospel that the Word was in the beginning with God and that the Word was Divinity in itself. The Word became flesh and lived among us. John (a direct disciple of Jesus) ascribed to him deity. "Doubting Thomas" called him his Lord and his God when he saw Jesus' flesh wounds after his physical resurrection from the dead. The New Testament Scriptures speak of a God willing to enter into creation itself as a man to die on behalf of man in order that God's justice prevail and sin actually be punished in the body of Jesus Christ, but that he can show his mercy on those that would believe on faith in Christ. Good works cannot bring one to salvation. That's a doctrine foreign to Chrstianity. This is legalism. A Christian doesn't do good be accepted by God. A Christian does good because he is accepted by God. This is where the term born again comes from. A person cannot choose to be born again or cause themselves to become aware of their sinful nature. They are reborn by the Spirit of God first, and then become subject to God out of their own will. Before this event takes place, no man can come to God, nor are they willing to. They remain in rebellion to him. After this event, their desire is to please Him. And it is an event only God can cause. In Christianity, man does not chase after God for redemption, God chases after men to be redeemed. No one knows why He cares so much for those whom He loves, He just does. Rebirth raises man from spiritual death into spiritual life: eternal life, in fact. When a man is spiritually dead he cannot do any good as far as God is concerned. All of his righteousness is as filthy rags as Isaiah puts it.

Islam emphatically rejects this notion of God. That philosophically, Allah cannot become His own creation. That Allah made it only seem that Jesus died but really Allah fooled the disciples and Jesus did not really die. That we have the ability (even after the fall ruined man) to do the greatest good and choose to come to Allah. That good works can possibly convince Allah to save us and forgive us. That man is not so utterly lost that he actually needs a saviour to redeem him through dying on his behalf. That God can forgive out of His own love without the need for justice to be done against sin itself.

Until the spiritual rebirthing (according to Christianity) happens in a Muslim, they will have no hope of seeing the kingdom of God, let alone enter it. A spiritually darkened man cannot recognize his need for a saviour until the Holy Spirit enters him and brings him to life spiritually. It's a supernatural event, and possibly the Holy Spirit will breathe life into many Muslims one day and make them realize their need for a someone to take their place and suffer God's wrath on their behalf. Only He knows His own plan. That's why I preach to anyone who will engage me in discussion.

As far as Jews are currently concerned, many believe that Jesus is a continuation of their Jewish religion. That he was the fulfillment of the promises God had made in the Tanakh. The early church believed this. In fact all of the early church were Jews at first. They hadn't recognized that God was bringing Gentiles into His plan of salvation too. In Abraham's seed (not plural, but singular) all of the nations of the world were to be blessed according to the Tanakh. This seed is understood by Christians as Jesus Christ. And so God has fulfilled the promise he gave to Abraham in Jesus Christ. Again though, the law was supposed to show man how depraved he actually was. It was by faith that Abraham was justified by his belief in the promises of God according to Genesis 15. He was made righteous through his faith in God, not through his good works. Though many Jews nowadays believe that good works can put them in good standing before God, the fact remains that without shedding blood on the day of atonement, their sins would not be forgiven according to the law given to Moses. What were they to do if they had sin before the day of atonement and died? How could they stand before their infinitely holy God without the forgiveness of their sins for that year? The Jews also needed a final sacrifice to take away all of their sins, past, present, & future. God saw fit that some Jews would recognize this need and believe on Jesus Christ.

This doesn't seem like the same "God of Abraham" of Islam. At least, it doesn't to me. "God of Abraham" may be the same title, but the title is about all they would have in common.

By the way, don't think I'll hold it against you that you believe these are the same God. Christians just have their reasons for disagreeing with this common new theme people keep throwing out there that they are the same God. They are not.

Also, most Christians study Judaism in depth as they believe the Tanakh holds the same authority as the New Testament.

I'll admit I have not studied the Quran much. If you'd like to point out to me resources, by all means. I'm always willing to learn more. I personally think that I'm not splitting hairs over minor matters. The fundamentals between the Chrstian God and Islamic God are completely different, while the name "God of Abraham" remains the only thing similar between the entities. At least muslims are monotheistic; then again, so is Shaitan (Satan).

Edited August 15, 2012 by bsd058