Figuring out this ObamaCare thing

[Stuart and Thea 95]

NO POLITICS PLEASE!

Okay, with all the chatter about the new healthcare system, I've been trying to wrap my head around what the new system will mean for my family.

Currently, I don't have a plan at all, so I pay zero dollars. I haven't been here long enough to need a trip to the doctor yet for a regular checkup, but was considering finding one that would enroll me as a patient for a yearly fee, for regular checkups. I also was planning on putting money into savings when I could afford it to have in the case of an emergency.

I know that currently, if you don't charge a credit card for healthcare, you have the option to ask them to lower the price, and they can also make an affordable payment plan (sometimes zero percent) and in the case of extreme illness or injury, there are compassionate use programs available, as well as charity.

Now, I know I have to pay into a plan for a government run program through an insurance company, or risk a fine of up to 1800$ a year. Plans in my area cost more than that, so I will be forced to pay approximately 2500$ a year or take the fine. I'm wondering if it's really worth it, considering what I hear about people having to pay above what insurance covers now anyway, and so many patients being advised by their physicians to tell treatment centers that they are uninsured because the cost difference is actually less to them than what their insurance company makes them pay. I am just worried that this is going to cost me money for things that I could have paid for myself with less cost.

A friend of mine sent me this link to help me find out what it will mean to me, from the Washington Post. It has a spot on it to put in your family size and income and it calculates for you what it will cost.

calculator for new health care bill

I also wonder if people with plans currently will drop them in favour of using this kind of plan, if it's less expensive and provides stricter guidelines, would they be allowed to? I would guess their current plans would have to be made considerably more affordable....

Can someone who has already looked into this more please walk us through what to do with regards to healthcare? Will it still be beneficial to just get a plan outside of this through work for example? Will this be money taken off a paycheque pretax or do we have to use after tax dollars?? Gah... there's a lot of questions...

PLEASE NOTE, THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO DISCUSS THE RIGHT OR WRONG OR IT, though I'm sure your thoughts on the subject will come through. I want the how to, and what does it mean for me, pros and cons of paying vs being fined, or sticking with a company plan. If you want to discuss the right or wrong of it, please comment on the thread that is in the politics section of the forum, this one is just for people who have to live with the fallout of the decision to navigate it. I purposely kept this out of that section to make it more productive for us living here who need to learn about it.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

One thing to keep in mind is this mandate doesn't take effect until 2014. In the meantime, there will be a lot of media coverage and educational outreach to help explain what it means to you. I imagine by then your options should be more clear. More employers will offer a plan and there will be state subsidized plans and lots of stuff. To be honest, I read that most of congress didn't read the bill, so if they didn't read it, I am not sure the media (less likely to read it) really knows what is going on yet. The transition will be gradual and make more sense as time goes on. I think it's admirable to want to figure it out now, but I think it will much easier to just wait a bit, and let the info come your way (which it will).

I might point out that the bill has been in effect for a while already.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Harpa Timsah

[litlmina 40]

If you don't want this to be political, you may want to refer to it as the Affordable Healthcare Act.

These are great questions, and hopefully the media will be all over this in the coming weeks - running stories that answer these questions.

In the meantime, have you checked out http://www.healthcare.gov/law/information-for-you/index.html ? There's a lot of info on the site, and there's a "Find Insurance Options" section where I think you can look at plans and run some numbers.

[Stuart and Thea 95]

If you don't want this to be political, you may want to refer to it as the Affordable Healthcare Act.

These are great questions, and hopefully the media will be all over this in the coming weeks - running stories that answer these questions.

In the meantime, have you checked out http://www.healthcare.gov/law/information-for-you/index.html ? There's a lot of info on the site, and there's a "Find Insurance Options" section where I think you can look at plans and run some numbers.

It's all over my facebook and on news sites as Obamacare, not meant to be political, but it makes it more identifiable. As a Canadian, I can tell you that I never heard it referred to as anything else.

Thanks for the link, but I really wanted to put my money into a savings account so that I could use it how I wanted to. I also was hoping that I would find work that had health insurance attached to it, so could put it off for a while. Good to know that I have a few years to think about it, but still irked that my current financial situation doesn't allow for insurance, and nothing is going to change that for a while, but I'm still going to have to get it. I also wonder if refusing to pay (as that will be the cheaper option for me currently, from zero dollars a year to 1800 dollars a year) will be a mark against me with regards to ROC. I can't afford to pay, but won't be able to afford not to pay... or risk deportation??

Edited June 29, 2012 by Stuart and Thea

[M&Pooh 12]

I also wonder if refusing to pay (as that will be the cheaper option for me currently, from zero dollars a year to 1800 dollars a year) will be a mark against me with regards to ROC. I can't afford to pay, but won't be able to afford not to pay... or risk deportation??

This is an interesting question. Since the Supreme Court ruled it's "a tax", probably the punishment for nonpaying that would be the same as for nonpayment of any other taxes.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

It's all over my facebook and on news sites as Obamacare, not meant to be political, but it makes it more identifiable. As a Canadian, I can tell you that I never heard it referred to as anything else.

Thanks for the link, but I really wanted to put my money into a savings account so that I could use it how I wanted to. I also was hoping that I would find work that had health insurance attached to it, so could put it off for a while. Good to know that I have a few years to think about it, but still irked that my current financial situation doesn't allow for insurance, and nothing is going to change that for a while, but I'm still going to have to get it. I also wonder if refusing to pay (as that will be the cheaper option for me currently, from zero dollars a year to 1800 dollars a year) will be a mark against me with regards to ROC. I can't afford to pay, but won't be able to afford not to pay... or risk deportation??

The penalty won't be $1800 until 2016 or 2017. The first year the penalty will be like $675 I believe. Then it will ramp up. If you are not working, you will be able to find a cheaper alternative insurance by then.

[M&Pooh 12]

I know that currently, if you don't charge a credit card for healthcare, you have the option to ask them to lower the price, and they can also make an affordable payment plan (sometimes zero percent) and in the case of extreme illness or injury, there are compassionate use programs available, as well as charity.

So, you don't want to obtain your own health insurance but "in the case of extreme illness or injury" you want somebody esle ( e.g. those who contributed to the charity ) to pick up your bill? I think, this is fair and just that you'll be requiring to pay a penalty/tax for such a parasitical ( let's call things by their names ) behavior.

[M&Pooh 12]

So, you don't want to obtain your own health insurance but "in the case of extreme illness or injury" you want somebody esle ( e.g. those who contributed to the charity ) to pick up your bill? I think, this is fair and just that you'll be requiring to pay a penalty/tax for such a parasitical ( let's call things by their names ) behavior.

"You'll be requirED", of course

[Stuart and Thea 95]

So, you don't want to obtain your own health insurance but "in the case of extreme illness or injury" you want somebody esle ( e.g. those who contributed to the charity ) to pick up your bill? I think, this is fair and just that you'll be requiring to pay a penalty/tax for such a parasitical ( let's call things by their names ) behavior.

I'm not saying I don't WANT to obtain it, sheesh! I just can't afford it right now, and don't see that changing anytime soon! I'm trying to figure out just how this is supposed to be a benefit to us is all. If there IS an emergency, I CAN access help, that's not parasitical behaviour, it's called charity, and I would advise anyone in a situation where they find themselves unable to pay for healthcare themselves to seek help. What would you HAVE these parasites do, just suffer with the illness and injury lest they take on government services, god forbid?

The penalty won't be $1800 until 2016 or 2017. The first year the penalty will be like $675 I believe. Then it will ramp up. If you are not working, you will be able to find a cheaper alternative insurance by then.

I think that's per person, I was using the calculator for a family of three to obtain that figure

[Stuart and Thea 95]

From the website linked above by litlmina, I see this about tax credits :

‎Tax credits to help the middle class afford insurance will become available for those with income between 100% and 400% of the poverty line who are not eligible for other affordable coverage. (In 2010, 400% of the poverty line comes out to about $43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of four.) The tax credit is advanceable, so it can lower your premium payments each month, rather than making you wait for tax time. It’s also refundable, so even moderate income families can receive the full benefit of the credit. These individuals may also qualify for reduced cost-sharing (copayments, co-insurance, and deductibles).

Any idea about the not eligible for other affordable coverage part? Does that mean that if there's a plan that someone is willing to give us, which according to the law, I thought there would have to be, then we might get tax credits? I think this is worded really poorly, because to me, who would fall in this section, I'm pretty sure there will be a plan I'm eligible for, so just who will the tax credits go to? I think getting a tax credit will really help, if I am somehow ineligible for a plan... but if I'm ineligible for a plan, then, I wouldn't be paying for one would I??? Anyone??

[M&Pooh 12]

I'm not saying I don't WANT to obtain it, sheesh! I just can't afford it right now,

You can stop here. This is the major flaw of your argument. Inside your mind, you think of a health insurance as of something optional, a kind of luxury, the thing that you might be buying when you have some extra money. This is absolutely wrong approach, and the PPACA finally intends to fix it. The health insurance MUST be thought of as something as necessary as food, housing, car insurance and other mandatory expenses. I bet when driving you're not arguing with a cop giving you a ticket for driving with no insurance: "But I just can't afford car insurance!" If you're not driving, I have even better example for you. When you've lived in Canada [ where healthcare is funded by the government, i.e. from the tax revenue ], have you ever complained to Revenue Canada - "I can't afford paying taxes!" I bet you haven't. Read the Supreme Court decision. The majority of judges treat this penalty that you're so unhappy about as "tax". So, legally that means that you're refusing to pay your tax. The consequences are obvious.

If there IS an emergency, I CAN access help, that's not parasitical behaviour, it's called charity, and I would advise anyone in a situation where they find themselves unable to pay for healthcare themselves to seek help. What would you HAVE these parasites do, just suffer with the illness and injury lest they take on government services, god forbid?

Obviously, nobody ( except probably Ron Paul & Co. who plainly state that "healthcare is not a right" ) would advocate letting people die outside of a hospital. It would be obviously ultimately immoral. And here is the great contradiction of a current system: that everybody is getting health service, but only some [insured] people are actually paying for it. Economically speaking, this system can either go broke or getting reimbursed somehow - read: have other people pay for the services hospitals giving away for free. This is very unfair, and the reform is intended to fix that "hole" by creating a system when everybody gets healthcare and everybody pays for it, and if you REALLY can't afford it, you're getting assistance in obtaining an insurance [i am not sure whether that would or would not be considered a "public burden"]. And, again, it implies that from now on, EVERYBODY should stop thinking of a health insurance as of a luxury.

Edited July 1, 2012 by M&Pooh

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I think that's per person, I was using the calculator for a family of three to obtain that figure

I just read the first year penalty is the higher of $95 per person or 1% of Adjusted Gross Income. The $695 per person is 2016. So if you don't get insurance by 2014, you'll pay less than $300 for a penalty for your family.

This is why figuring his out now is putting the cart before the horse. Things will be more clear soon, and more health insurance options will become available. The law is the "Affordable Care Act" which makes it easier for most people to get insurance. I know you can't afford insurance now, but the whole point of the law is to make it more affordable for everyone. New options will start to exist soon that intended to fill the gap or people who cannot get insurance as it is now. You can't plan now for options you don't yet have, especially based on misinformation (my own about the penalty included).

Edited July 1, 2012 by Harpa Timsah

[Stuart and Thea 95]

You can stop here. This is the major flaw of your argument. Inside your mind, you think of a health insurance as of something optional, a kind of luxury, the thing that you might be buying when you have some extra money. This is absolutely wrong approach, and the PPACA finally intends to fix it. The health insurance MUST be thought of as something as necessary as food, housing, car insurance and other mandatory expenses. I bet when driving you're not arguing with a cop giving you a ticket for driving with no insurance: "But I just can't afford car insurance!" If you're not driving, I have even better example for you. When you've lived in Canada [ where healthcare is funded by the government, i.e. from the tax revenue ], have you ever complained to Revenue Canada - "I can't afford paying taxes!" I bet you haven't. Read the Supreme Court decision. The majority of judges treat this penalty that you're so unhappy about as "tax". So, legally that means that you're refusing to pay your tax. The consequences are obvious.

I can't afford to drive right now, and am not working, a difference between living here and living in Canada. There, I had a salary, here, I've emptied out all of my savings paying for my mortgage back home of an unsold house. I am no longer eligible for the tax credits I would have had in Canada, and have to pay an additional fee to them instead of the 2000$ I was hoping for. Sometimes food is a luxury. We haven't gone out to dinner, out on dates etc because I've been trying to save money in order to get some credit. And no, I've never complained to Revenue Canada, because I was always in the category of getting enough tax credits back as to not have a problem paying for them, I am not sure I can say the same here... See my question above as to eligibilty of persons to obtain tax credits, they certainly will make it easier for someone like me to afford them, as we fall in that field. Hopefully by the time this tax comes into effect things will be different, my husband is already looking for new work, as he's working 70 hours a week at a salaried job. We're just getting by. I don't know how rich you must be as to think this is not inexpensive, but the plans in my area are at minimum 450$ a month.

To argue that it's a luxury is a moot point, I don't care if it is or isn't I just can't afford the damn thing, currently, we only have between 200-300$ extra every couple of months, and that's our emergency money. Recently his 400$ car broke down and needed repair. Walking to work takes him over an hour because of the windy roads here through the mountains, and you have to have a car to get to any job. I've already applied at any within 30 minute walk, and those that would be worth paying 40+$ a day cab fare to get there and back, so don't just go and suggest I get a job, I'm trying to be practical here and you're just turning it into an argument.

You also say I'm unhappy about this penalty/tax... I'm pretty concerned due to financial constraints, yes! Very concerned about the consequences, you say that they're obvious, but I asked in an earlier post what they would be... so... not so obvious to me, care to enlighten? Or do you just want to call me a parasite again?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Thea: Just relax. There will be time to figure this out, and let me stress, that more options will become available by 2014. Now I hear that middle class families will get a $4000 tax credit to help buy insurance. Other gov programs will be expanded for people who were not previously covered under these programs. They estimate only 1% of people will have to pay the penalty. Employers will get more incentive to offer insurance to their employees (if your husband is not being offered it presently).

Lots more stuff will happen by 2014. Please don't think "Healthcare in my area of $450 a month so I can't afford it!" There will be more affordable options by 2014. That's the whole point of the law. The point of the law is NOT a penalty (though the media pounces on this aspect). The point is to expand health insurance options and make it more affordable. Your options will become obvious over the next 2 years. You can't figure it out now, because the expansion of health insurance options hasn't happened yet.

[Stuart and Thea 95]

I'm one of those people who like to get a handle on things ahead of time, just in case! So basically the advice is to just wait and see what happens and don't even think about it for now? I guess my questions can wait for a couple of years.. lol!