Sex lives of married Egyptians laid bare - news article

[Mithra 1,185]

Oh I'm sure it contributes to the issue a lot. Luckily, it seems that people are starting to realize that it's not necessary and that it is harmful. If older folks from rural areas, like my MIL, are realizing this...it's a good sign.

Well, I'm going to say it: there's an elephant in the room and it's name is "FGM," which no doubt contributes to the issue.

[Ihavequestions 419]

Oh I'm sure it contributes to the issue a lot. Luckily, it seems that people are starting to realize that it's not necessary and that it is harmful. If older folks from rural areas, like my MIL, are realizing this...it's a good sign.

A couple of weeks ago there was a mobile FGM clinic that ran through Minya, supported by one of the political parties. This same political party has a female member of parliament, who has openly called for mandatory FGM for every female, with fathers bearing the responsibility of assuring it gets done.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

A couple of weeks ago there was a mobile FGM clinic that ran through Minya, supported by one of the political parties. This same political party has a female member of parliament, who has openly called for mandatory FGM for every female, with fathers bearing the responsibility of assuring it gets done.

fabulous..and somehow anyone thinks that someone winning the elections changes things for women.. HAHAHAHH

[Nasturtium 500]

A couple of weeks ago there was a mobile FGM clinic that ran through Minya, supported by one of the political parties. This same political party has a female member of parliament, who has openly called for mandatory FGM for every female, with fathers bearing the responsibility of assuring it gets done.

What is their ultimate rationale for this-- culture or religion?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

FGM was banned in Egypt in 2007.

However, it's an ancient custom in Africa, embedded into cultural traditions which cross religious lines - many Egyptian Coptic girls are also circumcised; Ethiopian Jews also practiced FGM.

There certainly are those who continue to call for the ban to be lifted, and try to give it religious justification. But we know that Islam does not justify, endorse, or encourage it (at least not beyond what is now considered a cosmetic procedure in Western countries - labiaplasty.) In fact, most forms of FGM violate Islamic laws about women's right to sexual enjoyment, or laws about unnecessary bodily harm.

This practice is perpetuated almost entirely by women - it's performed by women on other women and girls. Most of the time, men have nothing to do with the decision or carrying out the procedure. It is mothers who are having this done to their daughters.

So it's up to women to stop it.

[Mithra 1,185]

I don't understand why females are wanting this for other females.

A couple of weeks ago there was a mobile FGM clinic that ran through Minya, supported by one of the political parties. This same political party has a female member of parliament, who has openly called for mandatory FGM for every female, with fathers bearing the responsibility of assuring it gets done.

[Nasturtium 500]

FGM was banned in Egypt in 2007.

However, it's an ancient custom in Africa, embedded into cultural traditions which cross religious lines - many Egyptian Coptic girls are also circumcised; Ethiopian Jews also practiced FGM.

There certainly are those who continue to call for the ban to be lifted, and try to give it religious justification. But we know that Islam does not justify, endorse, or encourage it (at least not beyond what is now considered a cosmetic procedure in Western countries - labiaplasty.) In fact, most forms of FGM violate Islamic laws about women's right to sexual enjoyment, or laws about unnecessary bodily harm.

This practice is perpetuated almost entirely by women - it's performed by women on other women and girls. Most of the time, men have nothing to do with the decision or carrying out the procedure. It is mothers who are having this done to their daughters.

So it's up to women to stop it.

Yeah, that's the thing-- they will try to give a religious justification a lot but it's totally cultural... but then some just give cultural justification so I was curious what the party line was.

It is totally a women's activity, enforced, sponsored, and perpetuated by women. It has a lot to do with social control.

I don't understand why females are wanting this for other females.

I know, right?

[Ihavequestions 419]

What is their ultimate rationale for this-- culture or religion?

Both.

Egyptians have been practicing FGM since time immortal, and the evidence is in mummies missing their girl parts.

Christians no longer do this, although when it was exclusively a cultural practice, they did.

There's hadith that some Muslim scholars say supports it (hello, isn't this the MO?).

Sure, it's perpetuated by women, but it's fathers who don't want "sexy" daughters and husbands who want wives that won't stray.

The "illegal" part of it was overturned because of the screaming from the uber religious crowd, so now if a doctor determines the girl parts need to go, the job gets done.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Both.

Egyptians have been practicing FGM since time immortal, and the evidence is in mummies missing their girl parts.

Christians no longer do this, although when it was exclusively a cultural practice, they did.

There's hadith that some Muslim scholars say supports it (hello, isn't this the MO?).

Sure, it's perpetuated by women, but it's fathers who don't want "sexy" daughters and husbands who want wives that won't stray.

The "illegal" part of it was overturned because of the screaming from the uber religious crowd, so now if a doctor determines the girl parts need to go, the job gets done.

The Coptic Church has made efforts to educate and persuade Christian Egyptians to end the practice, but unfortunately it is still happening within their community.

The hadith that has been cited to justify the practice:

Um Atiyyat al-Ansariyyah said: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.

is considered by the vast majority of Islamic scholars to be "weak." Sofiyya could explain this much better than I, but basically it has not met the criteria in documentation to be considered unquestionably "authentic." And even at face value, this hadith certainly does not seem to be approving extreme mutilation such as clitoridectomy or pharaonic circumcision (infibulation.)

It is very true that many, many Egyptians and other sub-Saharan Africans (both Muslim, Christian and Jew) still believe FGM encourages their daughters to be chaste and makes them desirable marriage partners. It's true that many still believe that no man will marry an un-circumcised girl. Many try to justify cultural traditions and prejudices by cherry-picking or distorting religious text.

But men are not the ones who are dragging girls to the cutter to be cut - women (usually the girls' mothers) are doing it.

Education is key. But women have to be the ones to lead the way on this - because when you come down to the facts of the matter, it's only women who can stop it. All the legislating in the world is not going to change things - it's a matter of changing society's attitudes.

Women have to be the ones to educate women about this, for the sake of their daughters.

[Ihavequestions 419]

The Coptic Church has made efforts to educate and persuade Christian Egyptians to end the practice, but unfortunately it is still happening within their community.

The hadith that has been cited to justify the practice:

Um Atiyyat al-Ansariyyah said: A woman used to perform circumcision in Medina. The Prophet (pbuh) said to her: Do not cut too severely as that is better for a woman and more desirable for a husband.

is considered by the vast majority of Islamic scholars to be "weak." Sofiyya could explain this much better than I, but basically it has not met the criteria in documentation to be considered unquestionably "authentic." And even at face value, this hadith certainly does not seem to be approving extreme mutilation such as clitoridectomy or pharaonic circumcision (infibulation.)

It is very true that many, many Egyptians and other sub-Saharan Africans (both Muslim, Christian and Jew) still believe FGM encourages their daughters to be chaste and makes them desirable marriage partners. It's true that many still believe that no man will marry an un-circumcised girl. Many try to justify cultural traditions and prejudices by cherry-picking or distorting religious text.

But men are not the ones who are dragging girls to the cutter to be cut - women (usually the girls' mothers) are doing it.

Education is key. But women have to be the ones to lead the way on this - because when you come down to the facts of the matter, it's only women who can stop it. All the legislating in the world is not going to change things - it's a matter of changing society's attitudes.

Women have to be the ones to educate women about this, for the sake of their daughters.

I agree that education is what makes the difference, although it wasn't the Muslim Sisterhood giving away free cuttings and it's men who send uncut brides back home until they get it done.

Technical point: Just because you quoted the hadith doesn't score you any points in the MO because I was me, me, me who mentioned it first.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I agree that education is what makes the difference, although it wasn't the Muslim Sisterhood giving away free cuttings and it's men who send uncut brides back home until they get it done.

Technical point: Just because you quoted the hadith doesn't score you any points in the MO because I was me, me, me who mentioned it first.

I miss VP.

Duly adding the plus-one

[handspring92 0]

I dont at all agree on the fact that there selfish in bed, my husband is quite uhmm "giving". And as he says "its all about you". So i think that its based on a person and if your pleasure comes from theres.

[handspring92 0]

Not ALL Egyptian men have that particular aversion

Totally agree, my husband said its up to me if i want to he would never force it. And i have to say as much as my husband and i have talked about guys and there porn fantisys, he said he knows thats not real. i think its just all based on how you communicate with your partner in what you want and what they want.