Wisconsin father defends family from drunk intruder

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

"How about these so called vigil antes and neighbor hood watch people be registered(back ground checks) and trained by the state.? I might feel a little more safe if I knew they had training or who they were. I have a neighbor hood watch sign 50 feet from my front door and I honestly don't even know who they are or if they even exist".

Now Gary and Sosuke that's my original post above. Sosuke went on a rant about why do I wanna know and blah blah blah. How hard was that to understand. Read to what I'm responding to. Point being maybe this kind of reform could possibly spare another tragedy like this.

Save the bs. You should be more concerned with the literally thousands of murders in this country committed by thugs. You want to play the numbers game on here between US citizens who are armed LEGALLY vs US citizens who have committed crimes with illegally owned guns? Let's do it.

[james&olya 1,121]

oh, BTW grammar master, you should probably seperate the subordinate clause from the following phrase with a comma.... ).

My bad! I'll tell you what, if you promise to not mis-spell separate I will promise to try and remember my commas!

[Ban Hammer 12,845]

I am enlightened now....thx Charles and Gary. I qualified my statement for the very reason that I suspected that this may be the case.

and yet, i'm not aware of any wild west shootouts in bars around here. overall, it's still pretty quiet.

[Sayha or bust. 71]

Save the bs. You should be more concerned with the literally thousands of murders in this country committed by thugs. You want to play the numbers game on here between US citizens who are armed LEGALLY vs US citizens who have committed crimes with illegally owned guns? Let's do it.

So maybe one life saved because of it is not worth it to you? I'm not debating your post nor do I want to, you are right on the money. I'm speaking on the tragedy that took place in Florida.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

So maybe one life saved because of it is not worth it to you? I'm not debating your post nor do I want to, you are right on the money. I'm speaking on the tragedy that took place in Florida.

Nobody knows what took place in Florida. The press along with the usual vampires aka J. Jackson and A. Sharpton jumped all over it along with the media before the facts were in. The media took it and ran with it and now it's all you see in the press. At first the media had the shooter as a white guy and that made for big press and then later on it came out the guy is Hispanic and Jewish. Now you throw in Obama making an ####### of himself along with Spike Lee trying to get some senior citizen couple killed by tweeting the wrong address and what you have is a media circus.

The press along with the brainwashed masses would be better off tackling real problem in this society like trying to explain and rectify the 40 shootings in Chicago these past two week...some of the resulting in deaths. That's just Chicago. Throw in DC, LA, Detroit, New Orleans, Cleveland, NYC, parts of Jersey and it totals up into the hundreds in less than a months time. Why isn't the press posting that all over the internet? Where's the concern?

[xebec 195]

My bad! I'll tell you what, if you promise to not mis-spell separate I will promise to try and remember my commas!

You are the grammar master here. Misspelling noted. LOL!

Edited April 1, 2012 by xebec

[james&olya 1,121]

Many states with CCW do not allow people to carry guns in bars or some do not allow it in any place that serves alcohol. But not all. Vermont has no "concealed carry law" because it does not need one. It is not illegal to carry a gun in a place that serves alcohol.

While I have no quarrel with such laws in general, it assumes that someone drunk and disorderly to the point of killing someone else will obey the law regarding concealed carry. Not likely. On the other hand, bars in Vermont are not "gun free zones" and despite a high proportion of young men, bars, alcohol, and young women that seem to be able to place their hemline exactly one centimeter below their hoo-hah...no crime.

Vermont's experience is certainly interesting to me! I still wonder how that translates to places like Washington, DC, NYC, Chicago, etc. If it can be shown that a similar positive effect is seen on crime rates in those locations as a result of CCW permits being much more prevalent than I will join you in supporting it. Some things really are counter-intuitive. And it is difficult to compare directly what happens in our culture and that of Europe. There are too many variables that are not easily accounted for. Whether you believe in widespread gun ownership or not, that genie is out of the bottle and could not be put back in. Liberals and progressives know this and for the most part would never presume to even try to take away anybodies' guns! It would be an absolute disaster and would never work. It might even provoke outright civil war!

The very reason these cases have stirred up so much attention may be a form of indirect proof of that which you have been saying. It is newsworthy precisely because it is so un-common yet nonetheless fits many peoples pre-conceived ideas of what must logically occur. Reading on these forums has made me somewhat more interested in becoming a gun-owner myself. I know my way around guns to some extent, having served in the USAF for 6 years. Never had to fire at anybody but I have no doubt I could do so under appropriate circumstances. I live in an area that is almost as safe as the area you live in so I have never felt the need before. But crime knows few borders and we are not totally immune here.

[james&olya 1,121]

We welcome you to the state if you wish to move here. Bring skis.

Now you are talking!!

[james&olya 1,121]

Perhaps, but I think there is another aspect. It is very possible that a sober, law-abiding armed individual could go into the bar, and become a highly intoxicated, violent, and irrational individual....it all depends on how much a person drinks, I suppose.

More than 'possible'!! I have seen and helped patch up the results!

[xebec 195]

I know what I meant. I said what I meant but I obviously used too much an economy of words to help those such as yourself understand what I meant. You obviously did not understand what I wrote! I apologize for not being explicit enough for you to prevent your misunderstanding. Maybe if I draw pictures as well next time? Nah, I am a lousy artist and don't have the time!

Explicit? So what are you saying here....? Your post had nothing to do with the rest of this thread? Completely non-sequitur? It was only about the totally unrelated issue of bar fights? If so, it was hardly an economy of words that was the problem-quite the opposite. Did you just add the bits about "wholesale arming of the populace" and " When guns are involved the outcomes become much more lethal" as red-herrings? Maybe you just "don't have the time" to think these things through clearly before you post them.

More than 'possible'!! I have seen and helped patch up the results!

On that we can agree. I have been around very armed people, and very drunk people. Never a good combination. But I'll defer to the statistics coming from the states that permit this.

[james&olya 1,121]

Explicit? So what are you saying here....? Your post had nothing to do with the rest of this thread? Completely non-sequitur? It was only about the totally unrelated issue of bar fights? If so, it was hardly an economy of words that was the problem-quite the opposite. Did you just add the bits about "wholesale arming of the populace" and " When guns are involved the outcomes become much more lethal" as red-herrings? Maybe you just "don't have the time" to think these things through clearly before you post them.

This is becoming a bit tiresome but I will try once more. The reference to bar fights was to demonstrate a stereotypical type of encounter that is not limited to bar fights. It may be the type of encounter that occurred in Florida. Though the original topic here was about an incident in Wisconsin, the thread had wandered a bit. The outcome in Florida was almost certainly made more lethal by the presence of a gun! Or are you going to claim that this 17 year-old kid was likely to beat this 'wannabe' cop to death with his bag of skittles?

Edited April 1, 2012 by james&olya

[xebec 195]

This is becoming a bit tiresome but I will try once more. The reference to bar fights was to demonstrate a stereotypical type of encounter that is not limited to bar fights. It may be the type of encounter that occurred in Florida. Though the original topic here was about an incident in Wisconsin, the thread had wandered a bit. The outcome in Florida was almost certainly made more lethal by the presence of a gun! Or are you going to claim that this 17 year-old kid was likely to beat this 'wannabe' cop to death with his bag of skittles?

Yes, I'm sure the intellectual yoga you are engaged in here is taxing. Er, so......your point was about the possibility of a legally armed citizen shooting an innocent person. Is that not exactly what I originally said? Rhetorical question, as the answer is self-apparent.....no need to further tire yourself.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Not hardly. A few DV's, no contact order violations, along with an assault charge that I went to the joint on. And no, I haven't shot anyone lately. Stereotypes with the the court system we have in place is almost too easy. I never believe what I read in the papers after having been through the system on more than one occasion.

You must have had a sh*t lwyer

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You must have had a sh*t lwyer

Public defender most of the time, and that's the worst you can get. They are over worked and could give a sh*t less what happened and if your guilty or not. They just want it done and over with.

[james&olya 1,121]

You must have had a sh*t lwyer

No shortage of those out there!