How to get married so we can start IR-1/CR-1 process

[Laure&Colin 562]

I called Customs and Border Patrol at Orlando International Airport and they said that everyone who comes to the U.S. to get married to a USC needs a K1. They say that they assume that anyone who gets married to a USC intends to stay 100% of the time.

There's no way to prove otherwise, even class registration, lease agreements, etc.

Hundreds of members on this site did just that: the foreign partner goes to the US to get married and goes back home then start a CR1 application.

You're digging too deep and making yourself sick for nothing.

What you have to understand is how to interact with the CBP officer: NO lying, but no volunteering of information either.

Morevoer, visitors from VWP are generally not subject to questionning at all, unless they've spent a large amount of time in the US in the recent past. Last time I went to the US (before being married), the officer did NOT ask me why I was coming. She asked me who lived at the address I wrote on the form, and I answered the truth: my fiancé's cousin. Well, she didn't ask me anything else, not if my fiancé was a USC, not how long I was intending to stay, not if I was planning to stay and marry my fiancé and adjust status, not if I had a return flight, NOTHING. She actually handed me my passport with the entry stamp in it before I had finished my sentence.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Laure&Colin

[pushbrk 14,040]

I guess what would put everyone (especially me) at ease here is if we have something from an Immigration official saying that this is okay, that is, having the intent to marry but not stay (that is, leave within a week or two) on a Tourist Visa/VWP, as long as one can provide proof that one is returning. Is there anything official?

No. Laws don't work that way. They tell you what you can't do. If you can't find a law against it then you can do it.

[pushbrk 14,040]

I called Customs and Border Patrol at Orlando International Airport and they said that everyone who comes to the U.S. to get married to a USC needs a K1. They say that they assume that anyone who gets married to a USC intends to stay 100% of the time.

There's no way to prove otherwise, even class registration, lease agreements, etc.

That's why you are being educated to have your fiance give truthful but generic answers if asked the purpose of the visit. We're going around in circles here needlessly. There is never ANY way you can assure a successful entry to a country of which one is not a citizen but there's no need to stress over it like this.

[jq123 1]

Hundreds of members on this site did just that: the foreign partner goes to the US to get married and goes back home then start a CR1 application.

You're digging too deep and making yourself sick for nothing.

What you have to understand is how to interact with the CBP officer: NO lying, but no volunteering of information either.

Morevoer, visitors from VWP are generally not subject to questionning at all, unless they've spent a large amount of time in the US in the recent past. Last time I went to the US (before being married), the officer did NOT ask me why I was coming. She asked me who lived at the address I wrote on the form, and I answered the truth: my fiancé's cousin. Well, she didn't ask me anything else, not if my fiancé was a USC, not how long I was intending to stay, not if I was planning to stay and marry my fiancé and adjust status, not if I had a return flight, NOTHING. She actually handed me my passport with the entry stamp in it before I had finished my sentence.

I'm a chronic worrier, lol. I'm just wondering if could affect things down the road when trying to get the green card, will they say "Oh, she came to the U.S. for a week, got married, and left. She misused the VWP."

I'm new to this legalese thing.

I just want to make sure my concerns are addressed.

Edited February 25, 2012 by jq123

[jq123 1]

That's why you are being educated to have your fiance give truthful but generic answers if asked the purpose of the visit. We're going around in circles here needlessly. There is never ANY way you can assure a successful entry to a country of which one is not a citizen but there's no need to stress over it like this.

I apologize for all of this. This is just very new to me and it's just a bit scary. I think I'm just going to have to toughen up.

Edited February 25, 2012 by jq123

[jq123 1]

whoops, made a mistake

Edited February 25, 2012 by jq123

[pushbrk 14,040]

I'm a chronic worrier, lol. I'm just wondering if could affect things down the road when trying to get the green card, will they say "Oh, she came to the U.S. for a week, got married, and left. She misused the VWP."

I'm new to this legalese thing.

I just want to make sure my concerns are addressed.

Your concerns have been addressed over and over again by several of the senior members here. No guarantees are available, just appropriate counsel.

[jq123 1]

Yet thousands of people on tourist visas get married here every day. Think of destination weddings, or Vegas weddings. You can look at NYC city hall, which has had an ad campaign aimed at foreign tourists wanting to get married in NY because it's "romantic."

Just to play devil's advocate here, couldn't one just say "Those are tourists, not U.S. citizens. One cannot get married to a U.S. citizen on a tourist visa. The K1 was created for that intent. The IR-1/CR-1 was created to recognize marriages done in other countries.".

In fact, that's the kind of response I got from the OIA CBP Official. He said that the K1 was created for marrying USCs on US soil, period.

Your concerns have been addressed over and over again by several of the senior members here. No guarantees are available, just appropriate counsel.

I understand, and I'll drop the topic now.

Edited February 26, 2012 by jq123

[pushbrk 14,040]

Just to play devil's advocate here, couldn't one just say "Those are tourists, not U.S. citizens. One cannot get married to a U.S. citizen on a tourist visa. The K1 was created for that intent. The IR-1/CR-1 was created to recognize marriages done in other countries.".

In fact, that's the kind of response I got from the OIA CBP Official. He said that the K1 was created for marrying USCs on US soil, period.

I understand, and I'll drop the topic now.

The CBP official you spoke to was simply wrong. The K1 was created so that there would be a path to bring a foreign fiance to the USA, marry AND AND AND stay to adjust status to permanent resident. It is not a requirement for marriage. The US does not require any special visa to MARRY. HOWEVER, if a CBP agent gets the impression a marriage to a US citizen is the purpose of the trip, they may well deny entry, not because of MARRIAGE but because of IMMIGRANT INTENT. Your fiancee DOES NOT INTEND TO IMMIGRATE, so she should avoid giving that impression upon entry and get on with the plans you've made.

[jq123 1]

The CBP official you spoke to was simply wrong. The K1 was created so that there would be a path to bring a foreign fiance to the USA, marry AND AND AND stay to adjust status to permanent resident. It is not a requirement for marriage. The US does not require any special visa to MARRY. HOWEVER, if a CBP agent gets the impression a marriage to a US citizen is the purpose of the trip, they may well deny entry, not because of MARRIAGE but because of IMMIGRANT INTENT. Your fiancee DOES NOT INTEND TO IMMIGRATE, so she should avoid giving that impression upon entry and get on with the plans you've made.

I see. So the fact the K-1 is classified as a dual intent visa is due to the fact that there's marrying AND staying involved, not just marrying. Good point.

[jaycali 415]

I see. So the fact the K-1 is classified as a dual intent visa is due to the fact that there's marrying AND staying involved, not just marrying. Good point.

Yep, that is exactly what the K-1 visa was designed to do. If your fiance was planning to come to the US, get married and then adjust status, the K-1 visa would be the appropriate visa.

She is not planning to come to the US, get married and then adjust status. She is planning to get come to the US, get married and then leave. The only appropriate visa/entry category for this is B-1 tourist visa, or in your British fiance's case, VWP.

No one here is instructing her to lie on entry, we're just suggesting she not volunteer information that she hasn't been asked in the first place. She does not have to volunteer information, she just cannot lie.

Scenario:

The CBP officer asks "What is the purpose of your visit?, your fiance says "visiting Florida for XX days." - That is perfectly fine, no harm done, no one can use it against her.

If the CBP officer asks specifically "Are you getting married while you're here?" (This doesn't happen), she'll obviously have to say "Yes."

The CBP officer you spoke to is wrong. She cannot be denied entry on the basis of getting married. She could in theory be denied entry on the suspicion of the officer that she intends to get married and stay. It is true that the CBP has to consider any non-citizen as an intending immigrant. But even this is a an exaggeration at times. Take into account that she is a British citizen - It is rare that VWP visitors are denied entry.. It's rare even for VWP visitors to be asked a barrage of questions.

I've visited plenty on the VWP, most of the time I was asked ONE question "business or pleasure?", Sometimes they'd add "How long are you staying?"

I visited my wife on the VWP in September, and visiting again in May. Could have attempted to adjust status both times if I really wanted to.

In September my conversation went like this:

CBP: "Purpose of your visit?"

Me: "16 day vacation."

CBP: "Friends? Family?"

Me: "Driving cross country with my wife."

CBP: "Wife? Where is she?"

Me: "She's waiting for me by the baggage claim."

CBP: "Ok, drive safe! Next."

Edited February 26, 2012 by jhsm85

[pushbrk 14,040]

To take this a step further, the K1 is totally inappropriate for a person planning to marry during a short visit and then leave. They would then be engaged in two separate petition based visa processes, one to get married and then a separate second one to come back a few months later to live in the USA. The intended adjustment of status that is part and parcel with the K1 process, would never happen.

[KLS2010 30]

Ok...I posted this same info in another thread asking the same thing you are now only his fiancee was Canadian. Now, I know this is referring to B2 visitors, but I figure if it's ok for them, then I can't see why it would be any different for British citizens who can travel on VWP.

Quote

9 FAM 41.31 N14 VISITORS UNDER SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES

(CT:VISA-1777; 11-29-2011)

The following classes of aliens may be classified B-2 visitors under the following special circumstances.

9 FAM 41.31 N14.1 Alien Fiancé(e)s

9 FAM 41.31 N14.1-1 Fiancé(e) of U.S. Citizens or Permanent Resident Aliens

(CT:VISA-798; 03-23-2006)

An alien proceeding to the United States to marry a U.S. citizen is classifiable K-1 as a nonimmigrant under INA 101(a)(15)(K). (See 22 CFR 41.81.) The fiancé(e) of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident (LPR) may, however, be classified as a B-2 visitor if you are satisfied that the fiancé(e) intends to return to a residence abroad soon after the marriage. A B-2 visa may also be issued to an alien coming to the United States:

(1) Simply to meet the family of his or her fiancé; U.S. Department of State Foreign Affairs Manual Volume 9 - Visas 9 FAM 41.31 Notes Page 25 of 32

(2) To become engaged;

(3) To make arrangements for the wedding; or

(4) To renew a relationship with the prospective spouse.

(Note: The highlighted section in red was the main part I wanted to show, but put the rest in to show the context )

This came from the Department of State's Foreign Affairs Manual. Here's the link.

Now, of course your fiancee may get a CBP officer that follows this, or she may get one that just assumes that all aliens coming to the US to marry a USC intends to stay.

Edited February 26, 2012 by KLS2010

[jq123 1]

I think I've decided to go for the K1 route so we could get started on the process now and account for any pending delays. She was born in the UK, but her parents are from Pakistan (who immigrated to the UK), and she has traveled to Pakistan once every 2 years, and I heard that can definitely prolong processing times. I'm a US Citizen (born and raised in Florida, but parents are Pakistani), yet I haven't traveled out of the country since I was 9. But I heard there are extra security checks if the immigrating fiancee/spouse has any ties to Pakistan, even if she was born in the UK.

Our intent was to get married as it's culturally/religiously not wise to be stuck in engagement this long, but I think we've decided to both tough it out and just keep in constant contact. It kind of stinks that we've talked all this time yet we've only met once, and it was when we decided to get engaged after months of talking.

I know this question is more appropriate for the K1 visa forum, but that meeting with lots of photographic evidence of the engagement ceremony is enough to satisfy the requirements, right? I have Skype logs as well, and she probably has copies of her boarding passes/passport stamps from her trip to Florida.

Edited February 26, 2012 by jq123

[pushbrk 14,040]

I think I've decided to go for the K1 route so we could get started on the process now and account for any pending delays. She was born in the UK, but her parents are from Pakistan (who immigrated to the UK), and she has traveled to Pakistan once every 2 years, and I heard that can definitely prolong processing times. I'm a US Citizen (born and raised in Florida, but parents are Pakistani), yet I haven't traveled out of the country since I was 9. But I heard there are extra security checks if the immigrating fiancee/spouse has any ties to Pakistan, even if she was born in the UK.

Our intent was to get married as it's culturally/religiously not wise to be stuck in engagement this long, but I think we've decided to both tough it out and just keep in constant contact. It kind of stinks that we've talked all this time yet we've only met once, and it was when we decided to get engaged after months of talking.

I know this question is more appropriate for the K1 visa forum, but that meeting with lots of photographic evidence of the engagement ceremony is enough to satisfy the requirements, right? I have Skype logs as well, and she probably has copies of her boarding passes/passport stamps from her trip to Florida.

Primary evidence of that meeting, such as passport stamps or boarding passes would be sufficient, provided the meeting occurred during the two years prior to filing the petition.