What is the definition of a "child"?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I agree with sparkofcreation - one should get their legal advice from an attorney. Actions taken on the advice from the USCIS that turns out to be wrong is not the USCIS fault or problem to correct.

A consultation on this issue should be very inexpensive.

Yodrak

Couldn't one make an infopass appointment? Why fork over $$ to a lawyer if you don'ty have to.

Because I don't trust USCIS to give correct information, but I *do* trust them to hold it against the OP and his family if they act based on wrong information that USCIS gave them?

Most state bar associations have things where for a certain fee (usually $25 or so) you can get a half-hour consultation with a lawyer specializing in your problem with no obligation to hire the lawyer.

I went to my local US-CIS office on InfoPass today to get clarification on whether we should file my stepdaughter's I-751 separate from her mom or on her mom's petition. Geez...what a waste of time.

At first the immigration officer said to do it together. But I pressed her as to her reason for saying that. Then she went in the back and left me at the window to ask somebody else. She returned and said the guy in the back told her my stepdaughter had to file separately. So I pressed her as to the logic of that...when she told me something completely different just a minute before. She then told me that the I-751 is filed at the district office and they don't do them in the local office. I already knew that...the district office doesn't have InfoPass, so you pretty much have to go to the local office to ask questions. She then told me that no matter what...if we file it wrong then the district office will just send it back.

I thought the reason I went to InfoPass was to get some answers so I could file correctly????

So I have now made an appointment with an immigration attorney for a consultation to get some paid advice. We'll see how that turns out.

I'm confused. Isn't Houston your district office? Which "local" office did you go to?

[Yodrak 7]

peejay,

You already knew that the District Office doesn't have InfoPass? But Houston is a District Office, and there you were having made an appointment by InfoPass.

I-751 should be submitted to a Service Center, not to a District (or Sub) office.

Terminology is important - be sure that you understand it.

Yodrak

.... She then told me that the I-751 is filed at the district office and they don't do them in the local office. I already knew that...the district office doesn't have InfoPass, so you pretty much have to go to the local office to ask questions. She then told me that no matter what...if we file it wrong then the district office will just send it back.

....

[Girona40 0]

It is not as complicated as it may appear, although it is easy to get twisted up whilst reading the INA.

From what I can gather the relative points are:

1. Your Wife and daughter entered, the marriage took place within 90 days, and they adjusted status within 90 days of each other.

2. Your daughter is a LPR with conditions

Your daughter should be included on your wife’s petition to remove conditions if in fact she gained CLPR status within 90 days of your wife. There is no condition on age, as she is a Legal Permanent Resident with conditions.

In our case our daughter was granted LPR status nearly a year and ½ after my wife adjusted. When it came time to file I-751 we had to file one for my wife and one for my daughter as per the instructions. We then got a notice saying that the removal of conditions for my step daughter was not necessary because she was classed as a CR-1 (there went that money out the window, but better safe then sorry)

Just my 2 bits

Edited October 16, 2006 by Girona40

[Girona40 0]

It is not as complicated as it may appear, although it is easy to get twisted up whilst reading the INA.

From what I can gather the relative points are:

1. Your Wife and daughter entered, the marriage took place within 90 days, and they adjusted status within 90 days of each other.

2. Your daughter is a LPR with conditions

Your daughter should be included on your wife’s petition to remove conditions if in fact she gained CLPR status within 90 days of your wife. There is no condition on age, as she is a Legal Permanent Resident with conditions.

In our case our daughter was granted LPR status nearly a year and ½ after my wife adjusted. When it came time to file I-751 we had to file one for my wife and one for my daughter as per the instructions. We then got a notice saying that the removal of conditions for my step daughter was not necessary because she was classed as a CR-1 (there went that money out the window, but better safe then sorry)

Just my 2 bits

Oh this post was by Girona40's USC husband, using the home puter logged me as her

[peejay 327]

peejay,

You already knew that the District Office doesn't have InfoPass? But Houston is a District Office, and there you were having made an appointment by InfoPass.

I-751 should be submitted to a Service Center, not to a District (or Sub) office.

Terminology is important - be sure that you understand it.

Yodrak

.... She then told me that the I-751 is filed at the district office and they don't do them in the local office. I already knew that...the district office doesn't have InfoPass, so you pretty much have to go to the local office to ask questions. She then told me that no matter what...if we file it wrong then the district office will just send it back.

....

You are correct...I got the US-CIS nomenclature (terminology) wrong. Yes...I was in the Houston District (Local) Office and the immigration officer was refering to the Texas Service Center where I will be filing the I-751 either jointly or separately depending what advice I get from the immigration attorney I made an appointment with tomorrow.

The point I was trying to make is that InfoPass is a sad joke (at least in the Houston Office). I think the only requirement for immigration officers there is that they are bi-lingual in Spanish / English. They do not know enough to answer basic questions. Anyway, it's kind of difficult to ask questions (and hear) though a 1" bulletproof glass window while shoving your documents through a 1 1/2" X 6" opening at crotch level. The officer even had a plastic curtain taped over that opening and some sort of square plastic barrier in front of that. Talk about weird! It was worst than a convenience store in the ghetto! I felt like I was an enemy instead of a US citizen, taxpayer, and civilized human being. And this after emptying my pockets at the front door to be examined through an X-ray machine, going through a metal detector, and getting the once over with a hand held metal detector before being allowed inside. My question was not answered definitively and the whole ordeal was a huge waste of time. Screw those people. I wouldn't advise anyone to ask questions through InfoPass (at least through the Houston District Office).

[peejay 327]

It is not as complicated as it may appear, although it is easy to get twisted up whilst reading the INA.

From what I can gather the relative points are:

1. Your Wife and daughter entered, the marriage took place within 90 days, and they adjusted status within 90 days of each other.

2. Your daughter is a LPR with conditions

Your daughter should be included on your wife’s petition to remove conditions if in fact she gained CLPR status within 90 days of your wife. There is no condition on age, as she is a Legal Permanent Resident with conditions.

Just my 2 bits

I think you are probably correct. That is what I thought all along, but I will spend $50 to run it through an immigration attorney consultation. It's money well spent.

Actually...I have studied the I-751 instructions and form in depth. My stepdaughter will be listed on my wife's form irregardless. She has to list her child(ren) anyway. The question is whether I put my stepdaughter's 2 photos and a copy of her Green Card in with my wife's to file jointly. Since my stepdaughter's AoS was approved roughly 60 days later than my wife's, I don't think it would hurt to do it anyway.

I believe the US-CIS is supposed to send a separate letter stating whether my stepdaughter is listed. This in addition to the NOA my wife will get. So if they don't include her daughter we will have to file a separate petition for my stepdaughter roughly 60 days later.

That is what I want to ask the immigration attorney about. I just want some clarification.

Thanks for everyone's advice. It was more than I got from my government. InfoPass is a joke.

[Flames9_RN 358]

Do your research as well to finding a lawyer. Best of luck

[Yodrak 7]

Girona,

I'm confused about some things here:

- K2s should be classed initially as CF2 (if appropriate) and then IF2 when they attain immigrant status? Not CR2 or IR2?

- How does someone classified as a CR not require removal of conditions at some point in time?

- How does a K2 become anything-1, be it CR, IR, CF, or IF?

Yodrak

....

In our case our daughter was granted LPR status nearly a year and ½ after my wife adjusted. When it came time to file I-751 we had to file one for my wife and one for my daughter as per the instructions. We then got a notice saying that the removal of conditions for my step daughter was not necessary because she was classed as a CR-1 (there went that money out the window, but better safe then sorry)

Edited October 17, 2006 by Yodrak

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Girona,

I'm confused about some things here:

- K2s should be classed initially as CF2 (if appropriate) and then IF2 when they attain immigrant status? Not CR2 or IR2?

- How does someone classified as a CR not require removal of conditions at some point in time?

- How does a K2 become anything-1, be it CR, IR, CF, or IF?

Yodrak

....

In our case our daughter was granted LPR status nearly a year and ½ after my wife adjusted. When it came time to file I-751 we had to file one for my wife and one for my daughter as per the instructions. We then got a notice saying that the removal of conditions for my step daughter was not necessary because she was classed as a CR-1 (there went that money out the window, but better safe then sorry)

Confused or just similarly pedantic? But nonetheless so right!

BTW, I scoured the Adjudicator's Redacted Manual for information on when I-751s are submitted with the principal beneficiary and when not. What I found was this:

(5) Inability of Child to Be Included in Joint Petition. As a matter of administrative convenience, the regulations allow a conditional resident child who is unable to be included in his/her parents' joint petition to file an separate Form I-751. (This could also be thought of as a hardship issue since otherwise the child would be separated from his or her parent, but the child filing such petition need not document extreme hardship.) Circumstances under which this situation might arise include:

A child whose conditional resident parent has died;

A child who entered the U.S. more than 90 days after his conditional resident parent and therefore does not have sufficient residence in the U.S. to qualify for removal of conditions on the joint petition (but verify that the parent and step-parent?s joint petition has been granted before approving the child's petition); and

Any other circumstances whereby in the determination of the director, the child is prevented from being included in the joint petition of his or her parent and step-parent through no fault of the child or his or her parents.

In adjudicating the separate petition of a child, you must be satisfied that the conditional residence status was not obtained through fraud and that the petition?s approval would not further a fraud scheme. For example, you would not approve a separate petition filed by a child which would enable an otherwise ineligible parent (who obtained conditional status through a questionable marriage) to make a stronger case for an extreme hardship waiver.

[peejay 327]

I went to an immigration lawyer today for a consultation. This is her advice and the reasons for it:

She advised me that it would be safest for my stepdaughter to file separately from my wife since my stepdaughter is presently 21 years old and is no longer a child. Even though her conditional permanent status is derived from her mother and our marriage.

My wife's conditional residence since date is 63 days earlier than my stepdaughter's and we are eligible to file my wife's I-751 in approximately 1 week. Right now it is taking the Texas Service Center 6 months to process the I-751. The lawyer told me there could be a problem if we filed jointly now (mother and daughter together). This is where the lawyer's explanation is convoluted. If for instance the 63 day difference passes and another 90 days of my stepdaughter's window to file separately passes before someone looks at the case to process it and that person determines that because she is 21 years old she should have filed separately...there could be a problem. It could even lead to removal proceedings in a worst case scenario becaused my stepdaughter did not file correctly in a timely manner.

She further stated that the instructions on the I-751 give us the option for my stepdaughter to file separately from her mom. However, the instructions state that my stepdaughter must state why she filed separately from her mom. And the reason being that she is over 21 years of age. My wife and I were told by our US-CIS interviewer at our AoS interview that my stepdaughter would have to file separately because she would be 21 years old when the filing date came around. And the immigration officer at my InfoPass inquiry also stated this too.

I explained all this to my wife and stepdaughter. I will let them decide what they wish to do. I even told them that I will pay for another consultation with another lawyer if they wish.

In my mind there is only one way to do this right. At this point no one has told me 100% that one way or another is 100% right. The I-751 instructions are not clear at all. It says nothing about a 21 years old exclusion to filing jointly.

[lovenlife 0]

Firstly, you did not read the post, under Girona's screen-name, in its entirity. It was Girona's husband that placed the message and, because I logged onto the home pc, I didn't notice that it automatically logged in as her.

Girona does not post on here any more, thanks to you, as you can see from her very last post on VJ.

Girona's final post on VJ

Our daughters was classed as a IR2 (typo on my part in previous post) she is a citizen now.

There are how ever instances where a k2 entrant in the US can become an IR1, I'm sure you can work that on out.

Girona,

I'm confused about some things here:

- K2s should be classed initially as CF2 (if appropriate) and then IF2 when they attain immigrant status? Not CR2 or IR2?

- How does someone classified as a CR not require removal of conditions at some point in time?

- How does a K2 become anything-1, be it CR, IR, CF, or IF?

Yodrak

....

In our case our daughter was granted LPR status nearly a year and ½ after my wife adjusted. When it came time to file I-751 we had to file one for my wife and one for my daughter as per the instructions. We then got a notice saying that the removal of conditions for my step daughter was not necessary because she was classed as a CR-1 (there went that money out the window, but better safe then sorry)

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There are how ever instances where a k2 entrant in the US can become an IR1, I'm sure you can work that on out.

I'm not sure I can. Care to expound?