Johnson's War on Poverty

[rika60607 215]

I don't know Paul... if they have to buy their cloths in WM and don't get to eat organic foods and lots of fruits and vegetables, then in my book their life is not so great. If they live in the slums and stare at a flatscreen instead of having hobbies and going out with friends, their life sucks and is going nowhere. If a single mother of six kids does not work, I don't think she should, because looking after 6 children in my book equals two full time jobs.

Now, I as well think that having 6 kids is obnoxious, but oh well. Some believe abortion to be a crime.

i think from your experiences and the hardships you've faced in actually working hard, you want it to be bogus.

Sad part is though, it's not. I said it in an earlier post. People on welfare have it better than people make even more than minimum wage.

[Golden Gate 530]

I would be interested to know more about how Canada's system works. Anyone have experience with that and can explain the differences?

[The_Dude 1,142]

I would be interested to know more about how Canada's system works. Anyone have experience with that and can explain the differences?

For unemployment, you don't lose your benefits if you get a job that pays less than what you were making before. Instead, they supplement your income while you continue to look for a higher paying job.

[slim 1,523]

####### are you talking about Slim? Keep throwing out red herring all you like, but I discounted the study to reflect what more traditional studies have found, and juxtaposed that against the welfare recipient numbers. In my world, 850 billion is still greater than 750 billion. Nice try though, but criminals are still a bigger burden on Americans than welfare recipients.

You're still not comparing numbers equally. If you want to compare the "cost" of crime then you have to compare the "cost" of welfare too.

If you want to post numbers about crime, simply post the actual cost, not the "cost."

Yes. There is generational poverty - those who have been on it for generations, and basically start having babies in high school, which keeps perpetuating it, and there is situational poverty - those who have fallen on hard times because of job loss, getting ill or whatever. To me, those of the second category deserve some kind of safety net. More than likely, they are on it only temporarily, until they can change their situation.

Why is it my job to take care of you during hard times?

I don't know Paul... if they have to buy their cloths in WM and don't get to eat organic foods and lots of fruits and vegetables, then in my book their life is not so great. If they live in the slums and stare at a flatscreen instead of having hobbies and going out with friends, their life sucks and is going nowhere. If a single mother of six kids does not work, I don't think she should, because looking after 6 children in my book equals two full time jobs.

Now, I as well think that having 6 kids is obnoxious, but oh well. Some believe abortion to be a crime.

You have to keep in mind though, your lower standard of living is still pretty high for what you're putting into it. So you're not shopping at Whole Foods and sitting on Ikea furniture. So freakin what. You're livin ghetto fab on leather couches (with plastic over the cushions) and playing playstation on a big TV while you smoke weed and watch videos on BET.

Not bad... for free.

[Golden Gate 530]

You're still not comparing numbers equally. If you want to compare the "cost" of crime then you have to compare the "cost" of welfare too.

If you want to post numbers about crime, simply post the actual cost, not the "cost."

Why is it my job to take care of you during hard times?

You have to keep in mind though, your lower standard of living is still pretty high for what you're putting into it. So you're not shopping at Whole Foods and sitting on Ikea furniture. So freakin what. You're livin ghetto fab on leather couches (with plastic over the cushions) and playing playstation on a big TV while you smoke weed and watch videos on BET.

Not bad... for free.

Didn't someone take care of you during your hard times?

[The_Dude 1,142]

You're still not comparing numbers equally. If you want to compare the "cost" of crime then you have to compare the "cost" of welfare too.

If you want to post numbers about crime, simply post the actual cost, not the "cost."

Slim, are you really that lost in this conversation? I conceded that the cost of crime in that study did reflect the societal cost of crime, and went with the more traditional number of 850 billion per year, which, even you can deduce is still higher than 750 per year, which is the traditional, quantifiable number. If you still dont' get it slim, that's your problem, maybe invest in a few Learning Annex courses.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Master Baiter

[slim 1,523]

Didn't someone take care of you during your hard times?

Someone like whom?

[Golden Gate 530]

FYI - Prison in Denmark

My link

Someone like whom?

I don't know. You tell me. Maybe you have never fallen on hard times, I don't know. But, if you have, you will understand.

[slim 1,523]

Slim, are you really that lost in this conversation? I conceded that the cost of crime in that study did reflect the societal cost of crime, and went with the more traditional number of 850 billion per year, which, even you can deduce is still higher than 750 per year, which is the traditional, quantifiable number. If you still dont' get it slim, that's your problem, maybe invest in a few Learning Annex courses.

Maybe you could come up with a number for crime that doesn't take into account figures that are based on assumptions.

Keep in mind too, society mandates folks go to prison. We don't mandate they sit on their asses smoking weed and having more kids. We subsidize that.

I don't know. You tell me. Maybe you have never fallen on hard times, I don't know. But, if you have, you will understand.

When I fell on hard times I reduced my expenses significantly and sold items I'd previously acquired. Coupled with savings and a lifestyle that wasn't beyond my means, I had very little difficulty making it without the government's help.

To get out of that situation I actively pursued employment.

[Golden Gate 530]

Maybe you could come up with a number for crime that doesn't take into account figures that are based on assumptions.

Keep in mind too, society mandates folks go to prison. We don't mandate they sit on their asses smoking weed and having more kids. We subsidize that.

When I fell on hard times I reduced my expenses significantly and sold items I'd previously acquired. Coupled with savings and a lifestyle that wasn't beyond my means, I had very little difficulty making it without the government's help.

To get out of that situation I actively pursued employment.

Fine. But you are a single person. Not a parent with children. I am also sure you weren't ill. Most people who are in situational poverty are not in it for the long term. That is why it is called situational poverty. A situation has taken place, which temporarily puts them in a vulnerable position. I don't see how creating a 3rd World environment creates a better situation for a country. And what about prisoners? Aren't they on hard times? Yet, they have a place to stay and food to eat and medical expenses paid for.

Edited August 23, 2011 by Golden Gate

[The_Dude 1,142]

Maybe you could come up with a number for crime that doesn't take into account figures that are based on assumptions.

Keep in mind too, society mandates folks go to prison. We don't mandate they sit on their asses smoking weed and having more kids. We subsidize that.

Slim, just admit you got pwnt. The crime figures I posted were figures compiled from federal, state, and local government stats. Really, we subsidize people doing drugs? How many drug dealers do you know that will take your EBT card for a sack of weed? I thought so. It's not subsidized, it is a criminal act by the recipient, and they should be prosecuted as such.

When I fell on hard times I reduced my expenses significantly and sold items I'd previously acquired. Coupled with savings and a lifestyle that wasn't beyond my means, I had very little difficulty making it without the government's help.

To get out of that situation I actively pursued employment.

That is a reasonable approach. Now, had you exhausted your savings before you were able to find a new job, would you have applied for assistance programs?

[slim 1,523]

Fine. But you are a single person. Not a parent with children.

Kids are an expense just like anything else.

Do you know why I don't have kids? It's because I don't want to pay for them. I don't see why it's my job to pay for someone else's kids when they fall on hard times. If you have kids you can't afford, that's your problem. To me, it's no different than having a car or house payment you can't afford once you lose your job. We don't pay for those things... why should we pay for kids?

I am also sure you weren't ill.

I wasn't. But, once again, how is that anyone else's responsibility to care for me if I'm ill? There are plenty of ways to insure against illness/injury and if I'm not responsible enough to partake in them... how is that anyone else's responsibility?

Most people who are in situational poverty are not in it for the long term. That is why it is called situational poverty. A situation has taken place, which temporarily puts them in a vulnerable position. I don't see how creating a 3rd World environment creates a better situation for a country.

Situational poverty has existed forever. How did folks ever get by before welfare?

I'm all for helping folks out when they fall on hard times. However, I can't support the government being the ones who do so. Charities, churches, etc. That's who helps poor people. Not the government.

And what about prisoners? Aren't they on hard times? Yet, they have a place to stay and food to eat and medical expenses paid for.

I'm with you on that. I think it's stupid we pay people to sit around and watch TV while simultaneously paying other people $100,000/year to do work. Why not have prisoners do work - REAL WORK - while cutting government jobs? We don't need highly paid parks and recreation departments when we have prisons overflowing with able-bodied people.

And those who can't work? Well, there's plenty to clean!

[slim 1,523]

Slim, just admit you got pwnt. The crime figures I posted were figures compiled from federal, state, and local government stats. Really, we subsidize people doing drugs?

Your numbers are for the entire criminal justice process. There's a lot of "other" factors going into crime dollars. We recently got a new boat to "fight crime" here on the Ohio River. Is that because of criminals or because of government waste?

How many drug dealers do you know that will take your EBT card for a sack of weed? I thought so. It's not subsidized, it is a criminal act by the recipient, and they should be prosecuted as such.

All of them!

Everybody knows it's 2 for 1 with food money. You want a $30 sack of weed? That'll be $60 in groceries. For a dude that works at a cop shop, you're not very street wise.

However, you do highlight a great problem. They're not being prosecuted. We had a sting in Dayton, Ohio, recently for food stamp fraud. Only, if you read between the lines, this wasn't about food stamps, it was about keeping cash out of the hands of Muslims.

That is a reasonable approach. Now, had you exhausted your savings before you were able to find a new job, would you have applied for assistance programs?

I applied before I exhausted my cash. I was denied because I "made too much money last year while employed."

[The_Dude 1,142]

Your numbers are for the entire criminal justice process. There's a lot of "other" factors going into crime dollars. We recently got a new boat to "fight crime" here on the Ohio River. Is that because of criminals or because of government waste?

They probably purchased the boat to deal with increased levels of crime. Maybe if criminals in Ohio were better Americans and would stop being so reckless, they wouldn't need all that equipment to stop them.

All of them!

Everybody knows it's 2 for 1 with food money. You want a $30 sack of weed? That'll be $60 in groceries. For a dude that works at a cop shop, you're not very street wise.

However, you do highlight a great problem. They're not being prosecuted. We had a sting in Dayton, Ohio, recently for food stamp fraud. Only, if you read between the lines, this wasn't about food stamps, it was about keeping cash out of the hands of Muslims.

As I stated in my previous post, doing that is a crime, and they should be prosecuted as such.

I applied before I exhausted my cash. I was denied because I "made too much money last year while employed."

They don't deny unemployment benefits for income, but they do for people who have received too many payments in a time frame.

[slim 1,523]

They probably purchased the boat to deal with increased levels of crime. Maybe if criminals in Ohio were better Americans and would stop being so reckless, they wouldn't need all that equipment to stop them.

Wrong.

The boat was purchased with money from a federal grant for homeland security purposes to be used on waters already patrolled by USCG. Care to try again?

As I stated in my previous post, doing that is a crime, and they should be prosecuted as such.

But, they're not. So, you're wrong again. Want to keep going?

They don't deny unemployment benefits for income, but they do for people who have received too many payments in a time frame.

Thought maybe third time would be a charm.... but you're wrong on this one too.

They DO deny assistance programs for making too much last year.