dems turn coward, refuse to vote

[Zero Sum 305]

Maybe layoffs are better than losing bargaining rights?

Its cool its WI... home of the 2011 Super Bowl Champs. I know its a different industry, but how many NFL players need to worry about their benefits?

Priorities indeed.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

The Wisconsin Legislature is expected to vote today on Walker's proposal to fix the Wisconsin budget, which includes requiring state employees to contribute five percent of their pay to the state pension plan, and to pay for roughly 12 percent of their health care insurance.

link

how horrible!

[Zero Sum 305]

link

how horrible!

That's just evil.

I would though like to see those responsible for creating this financial mess to contribute more of their salaries to balance the budget.

[^_^ 5,021]

link

how horrible!

It's not horrible. But cutting off their right to collectively bargain is not how you do it. Lay them off if you have to. Follow the Christie model, he stomped all over the teachers unions but let them retain their ability to negotiate in good faith in the future should they choose to.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The debate is about balancing the WI budget.

Not really. The budget was fine prior to changes made that created the now apparent shortfall.

General Fund Tax Collection Projections

On November 19, 2010, the Departments of Administration and Revenue submitted a report to the Governor, newly-elected Governor, and Legislature that identified revenue projections for the 2010-11 fiscal year and the 2011-13 biennium. That report, required by statute, identifies the magnitude of state agency biennial budget requests and presents a projection of general fund tax collections.

On December 27, 2010, the administration modified the November 19 report and presented a reestimate of general fund tax collections for 2010-11 and the two years of the 2011-13 biennium.

Our analysis indicates that for the three-year period, aggregate, general fund tax collections will be $202.8 million lower than those reflected in the November/December reports. More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).

Compared with the administration's reports, tax collections are projected to be $12.9 million lower in 2010-11, $139.7 million lower in 2011-12, and $50.2 million lower in 2012-13.

In other words, they threw the budget out of balance and now claim that collective bargaining rights need to be attacked in order to balance it once again. That's dishonesty at it's finest.

link

how horrible!

How about reading the next paragraph that explains what the protests are actually about? It reads like this:

The Wisconsin Legislature is expected to vote today on Walker's proposal to fix the Wisconsin budget, which includes requiring state employees to contribute five percent of their pay to the state pension plan, and to pay for roughly 12 percent of their health care insurance.

This, however, is not what has prompted as many as 10,000 protesters to descend upon the Wisconsin State Capital in Madison each of the past two days. What has triggered the demonstrations is Walker's proposal to strip most of the state's public employee unions of their collective bargaining rights.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Mr. Big Dog

[Obama 2012 1,714]

It's not horrible. But cutting off their right to collectively bargain is not how you do it. Lay them off if you have to. Follow the Christie model, he stomped all over the teachers unions but let them retain their ability to negotiate in good faith in the future should they choose to.

As I said, Public Employees should not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage.

If it's a private firm, go for it... but Public, HELL NO.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As I said, Public Employees should not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage.

They're not holding anyone hostage. They need unions more than ever seeing that public employees have one of the most hostile employers possible.

[Zero Sum 305]

And private entities should not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage either, but they do. In fact, many make record profits from our bailouts, loophole their way to 0 tax liability or worse, are now recognized as individuals to buy politicians as well. Yep, sounds fair to me.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

It's not horrible. But cutting off their right to collectively bargain is not how you do it. Lay them off if you have to. Follow the Christie model, he stomped all over the teachers unions but let them retain their ability to negotiate in good faith in the future should they choose to.

i think that's part of the grand plan. time will tell.

They're not holding anyone hostage. They need unions more than ever seeing that public employees have one of the most hostile employers possible.

maybe not holding anyone hostage literally, but who's teaching the schools right now?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

maybe not holding anyone hostage literally, but who's teaching the schools right now?

Leave their rights alone and they will teach.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

Leave their rights alone and they will teach.

the rights to have state taxpayers fund pretty much all of their retirement and health care?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

And private entities should not be allowed to hold taxpayers hostage either, but they do. In fact, many make record profits from our bailouts, loophole their way to 0 tax liability or worse, are now recognized as individuals to buy politicians as well. Yep, sounds fair to me.

Poor legislation is the reason why they are 'recognized as individuals' in the terms you are using.

Your government gives bailouts and they should not. That's not the argument here though. That's federal vs. local.

Teachers salaries come from property taxes, etc which in many cases are sky high. Other public workers come from sales tax revenues, etc... - If there's not enough of that, then those taxes have to go up, other 'services' cut.

If you want to be a public employee, then it should not come with shiney benefits that screw your neighbor.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

the rights to have state taxpayers fund pretty much all of their retirement and health care?

Again, Chuck, that's not what triggered the protests. Read the piece you linked to in this thread - and read it in full.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

(teachers currently contribute $1 for every $56.94 from the state)

link

seems fair, eh?

Again, Chuck, that's not what triggered the protests. Read the piece you linked to in this thread - and read it in full.

or just maybe, you need to research some more about what's going on?

[Zero Sum 305]

Poor legislation is the reason why they are 'recognized as individuals' in the terms you are using.

Your government gives bailouts and they should not. That's not the argument here though. That's federal vs. local.

Teachers salaries come from property taxes, etc which in many cases are sky high. Other public workers come from sales tax revenues, etc... - If there's not enough of that, then those taxes have to go up, other 'services' cut.

If you want to be a public employee, then it should not come with shiney benefits that screw your neighbor.

You get what you pay for.