dems turn coward, refuse to vote

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

or just maybe, you need to research some more about what's going on?

Again, from your link:

The Wisconsin Legislature is expected to vote today on Walker's proposal to fix the Wisconsin budget, which includes requiring state employees to contribute five percent of their pay to the state pension plan, and to pay for roughly 12 percent of their health care insurance.

This, however, is not what has prompted as many as 10,000 protesters to descend upon the Wisconsin State Capital in Madison each of the past two days. What has triggered the demonstrations is Walker's proposal to strip most of the state's public employee unions of their collective bargaining rights.

[Ban Hammer 12,835]

Again, from your link:

The Wisconsin Legislature is expected to vote today on Walker's proposal to fix the Wisconsin budget, which includes requiring state employees to contribute five percent of their pay to the state pension plan, and to pay for roughly 12 percent of their health care insurance.

This, however, is not what has prompted as many as 10,000 protesters to descend upon the Wisconsin State Capital in Madison each of the past two days. What has triggered the demonstrations is Walker's proposal to strip most of the state's public employee unions of their collective bargaining rights.

yes, i'm aware of that. and i've posted what those collective bargaining rights have gotten the taxpayers of that state. as paul said:

If you want to be a public employee, then it should not come with shiney benefits that screw your neighbor.

[Zero Sum 305]

If Gov Walker wanted to get a more 'fair' concession from the teachers, he should have bargained for that with the added mention of guaranteed layoffs in order to balance a budget hole if the budgetary conditions were not met. This is what is done all over the country, with all other public funded systems where collective bargaining is prominent. Some people just have a hard time accepting that all paid positions are entitled to some kind of feedback system where a rational wage for work relationship can be adjusted given actual economic and social factors, more than one *emotional/opinionated* perspective.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If Gov Walker wanted to get a more 'fair' concession from the teachers, he should have bargained for that with the added mention of guaranteed layoffs in order to balance a budget hole if the budgetary conditions were not met. This is what is done all over the country, with all other public funded systems where collective bargaining is prominent. Some people just have a hard time accepting that all paid positions are entitled to some kind of feedback system where a rational wage for work relationship can be adjusted given actual economic and social factors, more than one *emotional/opinionated* perspective.

That would appear to be the proper path. Again, this isn't about budget shortfalls - there wasn't one until the governor and the legislator very recently created it. They could rescind a couple of pieces of legislation just enacted and the budget shortfall would vaporize. It's about busting the public employee unions. Nothing more and nothing less.

[B_J 2,752]

maybe not holding anyone hostage literally, but who's teaching the schools right now?

Totally agree. Teachers should never strike. Once a teacher strikes they lose credibility to EVER claim they're in the job for the kids.

[Zero Sum 305]

That would appear to be the proper path. Again, this isn't about budget shortfalls - there wasn't one until the governor and the legislator very recently created it. They could rescind a couple of pieces of legislation just enacted and the budget shortfall would vaporize. It's about busting the public employee unions. Nothing more and nothing less.

Yes. Teachers should just shut up and accept that they'll never be as entertaining to watch as linebackers or QBs, so therefore they'll never have the right to demand fair returns for their work. Maybe they should just stay satisfied with their students miraculously going on to bigger and better things and accept that as gratification enough.

[Dakine10 5,452]

It's why I live in a 'Right to work' state vs. a union stronghold.

You chose where to live based on that? You must really feel strongly about it.

[Zero Sum 305]

Lots of times feelings trump fact. I guess this is also the case on this part of the internet.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

You chose where to live based on that? You must really feel strongly about it.

partially. I lived in a public-union sronghold for awhile and it was ugly. Absolutely disgusting that the politicians didn't have the balls to tell the scum in those unions to go shove it. Instead taxpayers got to see their property taxes go up again and again and again thanks to laws that allow the unions to hold taxpyers hostage and force the government to give-in at the end of the day.

[Zero Sum 305]

Those crazy teachers make so much cash its ridiculous.

[B_J 2,752]

Let school districts set salaries. School boards want what is best for their community and kids. They will want the best teachers and will try to set a competitive wage to get those teachers. Teachers can go where those salaries are. There is no need for teachers to forget what is best for the kids and walk out. By walking out and going on strike, teachers hold the education of these kids hostage and force the community that they are a part of to pay for their demands. It's not right.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Those crazy teachers make so much cash its ridiculous.

in the union strongholds they have great benefits for only working 9 months out of the year...

On top of that they get paid the same regardless of how 'good' of a teacher they are. THAT is what's wrong with unions.

[Zero Sum 305]

Let school districts set salaries. School boards want what is best for their community and kids. They will want the best teachers and will try to set a competitive wage to get those teachers. Teachers can go where those salaries are. There is no need for teachers to forget what is best for the kids and walk out. By walking out and going on strike, teachers hold the education of these kids hostage and force the community that they are a part of to pay for their demands. It's not right.

Where do school districts get their funds? Do the math.

I do not like teacher strikes, and most of the ones I've seen could have been avoided if people left their attitudes at home.

That does not mean that taking away their *right* to do so is the correct method. It seems that those *libertarian* philosophies should apply to every single aspect of a society as it handles itself. Leaving sectors out of the equation is irresponsible and dishonest IMO.

[B_J 2,752]

Where do school districts get their funds? Do the math.

I do not like teacher strikes, and most of the ones I've seen could have been avoided if people left their attitudes at home.

That does not mean that taking away their *right* to do so is the correct method. It seems that those *libertarian* philosophies should apply to every single aspect of a society as it handles itself. Leaving sectors out of the equation is irresponsible and dishonest IMO.

Districts get their funds from tax payers. All the more reason that teachers shouldn't hold the education of kids hostage while expecting tax payers to give into their demands. School boards are responsible for the budget of the district. Let them do their job without the union making demands without considering the other responsibilities of the board. Selfish teachers are a disgrace to the profession.

[Zero Sum 305]

in the union strongholds they have great benefits for only working 9 months out of the year...

On top of that they get paid the same regardless of how 'good' of a teacher they are. THAT is what's wrong with unions.

And in many of those same strongholds, where the fruits of such pillaged goods (taxes) are splurged on by those wealthy teachers like Jabba would enjoy heaving vixens to the Rancor. Surely those 3 or 2 months not working would be spent jet-setting around the Galaxy.

I personally think the problem with unions is that *some* are no different than greedy profiteering companies, not that they are looking out for their members. Another problem I have with *some* unions/school districts is that union membership is mandatory as a condition of employment.

These *issues* can be negotiated, especially if they are exposed publically, to the tax-paying public, in a responsible, non-partisan, and transparent way. Claiming unions are one thing, anti-that, wrong, etc... without considering the whole equation, is reckless and irresponsible.