HOW SHOULD I FILE MY 2010 INCOME TAX

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

More jibberish. The question was, "Just exactly at what point would YOU or any other agent have seen a problem and just exactly WHAT would you have done about it?"

What do you mean, "assert the penalty"? What is the practical result of you "asserting the penalty"? What is the "consequence" to ME for having filed as single (temporarily overpaying my taxes) and amended my return later as I did? Come on, answer the question.

I already answered the question.

[pushbrk 12,110]

I already answered the question.

No, you didn't. You replied but didn't answer. Let me answer the question for you. There IS NO practical consequence to me for you "asserting the penalty". It's just jibberish. You might as well be wagging your finger.

I get that some people are uncomfortable anytime somebody else decides to take a course of action that isn't "correct" even if it has no consequence to anybody, ever. Some are more than uncomfortable. You seem to feel like you personally are not being "obeyed". I don't care.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

No, you didn't. You replied but didn't answer. Let me answer the question for you. There IS NO practical consequence to me for you "asserting the penalty". It's just jibberish. You might as well be wagging your finger.

I get that some people are uncomfortable anytime somebody else decides to take a course of action that isn't "correct" even if it has no consequence to anybody, ever. Some are more than uncomfortable. You seem to feel like you personally are not being "obeyed". I don't care.

Asserting, assessing, it is the same thing. You have probably gotten away with your perjury since the normal statute of limitations on your return has expired. I don't know if your situation would come under the no limitation for fraud and I am not going to bother checking. All I know is that if I had been assigned your return for examination I would have pursued the penalty for perjury. And yes you can be penalized even if no tax is due. But like I said before, anytime you post this ####### that is ok to file single when you are married I will post a remark that it is not legal.

[pushbrk 12,110]

Asserting, assessing, it is the same thing. You have probably gotten away with your perjury since the normal statute of limitations on your return has expired. I don't know if your situation would come under the no limitation for fraud and I am not going to bother checking. All I know is that if I had been assigned your return for examination I would have pursued the penalty for perjury. And yes you can be penalized even if no tax is due. But like I said before, anytime you post this ####### that is ok to file single when you are married I will post a remark that it is not legal.

Same question again. Of course, I already answered. Let me make it more clear. If for some plausible reason, my 2005 return crossed your desk in say, 2007, what would have been the practical result of you "asserting" or "assessing" the penalty? Are you saying you actually think I would have been prosecuted for a felony? If so, you're not just a fool but a damn fool.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Same question again. Of course, I already answered. Let me make it more clear. If for some plausible reason, my 2005 return crossed your desk in say, 2007, what would have been the practical result of you "asserting" or "assessing" the penalty? Are you saying you actually think I would have been prosecuted for a felony? If so, you're not just a fool but a damn fool.

I might be a damn fool but your a$$ would have been in the hot seat for awhile. I might not have been successful in assessing the penalty but it would not be for lack of effort on my part. I would have taken great pleasure in being present while the IRS Special Agent (Criminal Investigation Division) was reading you your Miranda rights during the investigation.

[pushbrk 12,110]

I might be a damn fool but your a$ would have been in the hot seat for awhile. I might not have been successful in assessing the penalty but it would not be for lack of effort on my part. I would have taken great pleasure in being present while the IRS Special Agent (Criminal Investigation Division) was reading you your Miranda rights during the investigation.

There's no "might" about it. The Criminal Investigation Division (IF they ever saw it at all) would at best laugh at you or perhaps get you reprimanded for wasting their time. They certainly would never contact me in any way about such a trivial matter. Anybody in possession of an ounce of common sense knows that.

No point discussing this further. It would just be for my entertainment, not any on-topic purpose. Of course, the last dozen or more posts have been useless drivel anyway. Sorry folks. Back to your regularly.....

[Math Man 6]

I'll add a data point to this discussion. I filed for an ITIN for my wife for tax year 2007, before she had obtained her CR-1 visa and was able to enter the U.S. The first time I sent in a copy of her passport that she had mailed me, which had been notarized by a Mexican notary. Since Mexico is a party to the Hague Convention, this would seem to satisfy the requirements of Form W-7. However, the passport copy was rejected by the IRS. They didn't send back my tax return, but instead gave me a certain amount of time to produce acceptable proof of my wife's identity and foreign status. If I didn't produce such proof, they said they'd process my return as married filing separately.

What I then did was have my wife mail me her actual Mexican driver's license and an original birth certificate with apostille. According to the Form W-7 instructions, these two items together would satisfy the documentation requirements. And I figured a lost driver's license was a lot easier to replace than a lost passport.

Anyway, the driver's license and birth certificate were accepted by the IRS and the ITIN was issued. They even returned both documents to me. The moral of the story is not to get too hung up on using the foreigner's passport as ID--there are other forms of ID that also work and may be easier to obtain.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Some countries people dont drive (or have a license)...but I hear where you are coming from. Pretty much any other id issued by their government and a birth certificate would work. I do see where people get blinded by the passport thing (I know I did). There are multiple items that can be used to get an ITIN that doesnt include using the passport. The list is on page 2 of the instructions: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Edited February 11, 2011 by Scott and Mhay

[Tero 105]

It's funny how the first sets of posters completely kept quiet when they sensed an IRS official on this thread.

[Cybele 0]

Well, I have been going over and over my 2010 taxes and this is what I have decided:

------------------------------------

Married filing separately. Need SSN or W-7. You can only file W-7 if spouse is an exemption or if your spouse files jointly with entire worldwide income.

Publication 501 Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf

Page 10. Personal Exemptions - You are generally allowed one exemption yourself. If you are married, you may be allowed one exemption for your spouse. These are called personal exemptions.

Your Own Exemption - You can take one exemption for yourself unless you can be claimed as a dependent by another taxpayer. If another taxpayer is entitled to claim you as a dependent, you cannot take an exemption for yourself even if the other taxpayer does not actually claim you as a dependent.

Your Spouse’s Exemption - Your spouse is never considered your dependent.

Both US citizen and nonresident foreign spouse exemption amount: $7300

Separate return. If you file a separate return, you can claim an exemption for your spouse only if your spouse had no gross income, is not filing a return, and was not the dependent of another taxpayer. This is true even if the other taxpayer does not actually claim your spouse as a dependent. This is also true if your spouse is a nonresident alien; in that case, your spouse must have no gross income for U.S. tax pur poses.

Form 1040 filers. If you file Form 1040, complete lines 6a through 6d.The total number of exemptions you can claim is the total in the box on line 6d. Also complete line 42.

Who Must Apply for a W-7 http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw7/ch02.html#d0e476

An alien spouse claimed as an exemption on a U.S. return who is not eligible to get an SSN:

e. Spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien. This category includes:

* A nonresident alien husband or wife who is not filing a U.S. tax return (including a joint return) and who is not eligible to get an SSN but who, as a spouse, is claimed as an exemption, and

* A nonresident alien electing to file a U.S. tax return jointly with a spouse who is a U.S. citizen or resident alien.

How to file. If you file a separate return, you generally report only your own income, exemptions, credits, and deductions on your individual return. You can claim an exemption for your spouse if your spouse had no gross income and was not the dependent of another person. However, if your spouse had any gross income or was the dependent of someone else, you cannot claim an exemption for him or her on your separate return. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html

How To Apply for W-7

Instructions for Form W-7 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Your application must include all of the following. documents that display information on both sides, copies of

1. Your completed Form W-7.

Note. If you submit a Form W-7, all later ITIN notices and correspondence that you receive will be in English. If you prefer to receive them in Spanish, please submit Form W-7(SP).

2. Your original, completed tax return(s) for which the ITINis needed. Attach Form W-7 to the front of your tax return. If you are applying for more than one ITIN for the same tax return (such as for a spouse or dependent(s)), attach all Forms W-7 to the same tax return. After your Form W-7 has been processed, the IRS will assign an ITIN to the return and process the return.

AFTER INTERVIEW - GET MOST RECENT NOTARIZED COPY OF PASSPORT WITH CR1 VISA STAMP:

Line 6d. Check the box indicating the type of document(s) you are submitting to prove your foreign status and identity. You must submit documents as explained in item (3) under How To Apply on page 2. Enter the name of the state or country or other issuer, the identification number (if any) appearing on the document(s), the expiration date, and the date on which you entered the United States. Dates must be entered in the month/ day/year format. Also, you may later be required to provide a certified translation of foreign language documents.

Passport

Note. If you are submitting a passport, or a certified/notarized copy of a passport, no other documentation is required, but ensure any visa information shown on the passport is entered on line 6c. However, if you are submitting more than one enter only the information for the first document on this line. Attach a separate sheet showing the required information on the information for the additional document(s). On the separate sheet, be sure to write your name and “Form W-7” at the top.

I looked over many, many PDFs from the IRS and this is the best way for my spouse and I. Arguments and threats on this thread notwithstanding, the information provided by many people sent me in the right direction to make this decision.

Thanks everyone!

[Cybele 0]

Well, I have been going over and over my 2010 taxes and this is what I have decided:

------------------------------------

Married filing separately. Need SSN or W-7. You can only file W-7 if spouse is an exemption or if your spouse files jointly with entire worldwide income.

Publication 501 Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf

Page 10. Personal Exemptions - You are generally allowed one exemption yourself. If you are married, you may be allowed one exemption for your spouse. These are called personal exemptions.

Your Own Exemption - You can take one exemption for yourself unless you can be claimed as a dependent by another taxpayer. If another taxpayer is entitled to claim you as a dependent, you cannot take an exemption for yourself even if the other taxpayer does not actually claim you as a dependent.

Your Spouse’s Exemption - Your spouse is never considered your dependent.

Both US citizen and nonresident foreign spouse exemption amount: $7300

Separate return. If you file a separate return, you can claim an exemption for your spouse only if your spouse had no gross income, is not filing a return, and was not the dependent of another taxpayer. This is true even if the other taxpayer does not actually claim your spouse as a dependent. This is also true if your spouse is a nonresident alien; in that case, your spouse must have no gross income for U.S. tax pur poses.

Form 1040 filers. If you file Form 1040, complete lines 6a through 6d.The total number of exemptions you can claim is the total in the box on line 6d. Also complete line 42.

Who Must Apply for a W-7 http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw7/ch02.html#d0e476

An alien spouse claimed as an exemption on a U.S. return who is not eligible to get an SSN:

e. Spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien. This category includes:

* A nonresident alien husband or wife who is not filing a U.S. tax return (including a joint return) and who is not eligible to get an SSN but who, as a spouse, is claimed as an exemption, and

* A nonresident alien electing to file a U.S. tax return jointly with a spouse who is a U.S. citizen or resident alien.

How to file. If you file a separate return, you generally report only your own income, exemptions, credits, and deductions on your individual return. You can claim an exemption for your spouse if your spouse had no gross income and was not the dependent of another person. However, if your spouse had any gross income or was the dependent of someone else, you cannot claim an exemption for him or her on your separate return. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p501/ar02.html

How To Apply for W-7

Instructions for Form W-7 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw7.pdf

Your application must include all of the following. documents that display information on both sides, copies of

1. Your completed Form W-7.

Note. If you submit a Form W-7, all later ITIN notices and correspondence that you receive will be in English. If you prefer to receive them in Spanish, please submit Form W-7(SP).

2. Your original, completed tax return(s) for which the ITINis needed. Attach Form W-7 to the front of your tax return. If you are applying for more than one ITIN for the same tax return (such as for a spouse or dependent(s)), attach all Forms W-7 to the same tax return. After your Form W-7 has been processed, the IRS will assign an ITIN to the return and process the return.

AFTER INTERVIEW - GET A US EMBASSY Notarized copy of:

Passport with new visa stamp

Trinidadian ID card

Birth Certificate

Line 6d. Check the box indicating the type of document(s) you are submitting to prove your foreign status and identity. You must submit documents as explained in item (3) under How To Apply on page 2. Enter the name of the state or country or other issuer, the identification number (if any) appearing on the document(s), the expiration date, and the date on which you entered the United States. Dates must be entered in the month/ day/year format. Also, you may later be required to provide a certified translation of foreign language documents.

Passport

Note. If you are submitting a passport, or a certified/notarized copy of a passport, no other documentation is required, but ensure any visa information shown on the passport is entered on line 6c. However, if you are submitting more than one enter only the information for the first document on this line. Attach a separate sheet showing the required information on the information for the additional document(s). On the separate sheet, be sure to write your name and “Form W-7” at the top.

I looked over many, many PDFs from the IRS and this is the best way for my spouse and I. Arguments and threats on this thread notwithstanding, the information provided by many people sent me in the right direction to make this decision.

Thanks everyone!

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Cybele,

You are going to file as Married Filing Separately and you plan to claim your spouse as a dependent which means you plan on completing a Form W-7 for your spouse? If it is true that you plan on filing a Form W-7 for your spouse then I suggest you file as Married Filing Jointly since that will probably give you the lowest tax liability. If you file jointly then you must attach the election statement to your return that you and your spouse elect to treat your spouse as a resident alien for tax purposes.

[Cybele 0]

Cybele,

You are going to file as Married Filing Separately and you plan to claim your spouse as a dependent which means you plan on completing a Form W-7 for your spouse? If it is true that you plan on filing a Form W-7 for your spouse then I suggest you file as Married Filing Jointly since that will probably give you the lowest tax liability. If you file jointly then you must attach the election statement to your return that you and your spouse elect to treat your spouse as a resident alien for tax purposes.

Your Spouse’s Exemption - Your spouse is never considered your dependent.

I am doing the Married filing separately. Need SSN or W-7. You can only file W-7 if spouse is an exemption or if your spouse files jointly with entire worldwide income. I don't want to include spouses worldwide income and pay taxes in both countries.

Publication 501 Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing Information: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf

Separate return. If you file a separate return, you can claim an exemption for your spouse only if your spouse had no gross income, is not filing a return, and was not the dependent of another taxpayer. This is true even if the other taxpayer does not actually claim your spouse as a dependent. This is also true if your spouse is a nonresident alien; in that case, your spouse must have no gross income for U.S. tax purposes.

W-7 Reason for Applying http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw7/ch02.html#d0e476

e. Spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien. This category includes:

* A nonresident alien husband or wife who is not filing a U.S. tax return (including a joint return) and who is not eligible to get an SSN but who, as a spouse, is claimed as an exemption

Edited February 20, 2011 by Cybele

[marckx 0]

Carlos:

I've read a lot of your posts here - know that you've worked for the IRS for 32+ years - hoping you'll answer some questions esp. as you too married a Russian citizen.

I married Svetlana - a Russian citizen - in St. Petersburg September 2010. I just returned a week ago.

What documents are needed for us to file as Married filing Jointly? Svetlana has a domestic and international passport. Does one (or both) of these need to be copied and notarized? Apostilled? She can then send them to me (along with a signed W7)? What would have to be done in Russia?

And if I file Married filing Separately, I then have to do it on paper since I have no SSN/IITN for her? I'd put "NRA" in the SSN box?

I think that's all the questions I have. I'd prefer, of course, to file jointly since it's about $700 more than filing separately.

TIA

Mark

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Carlos:

I've read a lot of your posts here - know that you've worked for the IRS for 32+ years - hoping you'll answer some questions esp. as you too married a Russian citizen.

I married Svetlana - a Russian citizen - in St. Petersburg September 2010. I just returned a week ago.

What documents are needed for us to file as Married filing Jointly? Svetlana has a domestic and international passport. Does one (or both) of these need to be copied and notarized? Apostilled? She can then send them to me (along with a signed W7)? What would have to be done in Russia?

And if I file Married filing Separately, I then have to do it on paper since I have no SSN/IITN for her? I'd put "NRA" in the SSN box?

I think that's all the questions I have. I'd prefer, of course, to file jointly since it's about $700 more than filing separately.

TIA

Mark

Marckx,

Inorder for you to file a joint return with your wife you will need to attach astatement to your return signed by both of you that you both elect to have yourwife treated as a Resident Alien for 2010. See page 10 of IRS Publication 519 – U.S. Tax Guide for Aliens. If you make this election then you must alsoreport your wife’s income on the return. The income will probably be excludable under the Foreign Earned IncomeExclusion so you will have to prepare Form 2555 and attach it to your return.

I havenever prepared a Form W-7 but I would think that a certified copy of your wife’sinternational passport would be sufficient but if I was in your shoes I wouldsubmit copies of both passports just to be sure. You are correct that you will need to get anapostille for the certified copies of your wife’s passports.

So ifyou want to file a joint return with your wife you will need for her to signthe following documents that will be included as part of your tax returnpackage:

1. The Form 1040

2. The Form W-7

3. The election statement for her to be treated asa Resident Alien.

If you decide to file as Married FilingSeparately you will probably have to file a paper tax return since I think mosttax software will require you to enter an ID number for your wife in order toe-file. You are correct that if you file a paper return you should enter “NRA”in the area where you would normally enter your wife’s SSN or ITN.