Old citizenship??

[fedupme 0]

I have one more thing that I've always wondered. Let's say we become US citizen after the oath. But how does the country of birth knows that we are now citizens of another country? Do we automatically abandon our old citizenship once we become a US citizen? I mean many of us are still having the passports from the birth country. I just wonder how would this all work out by itself.

Edited November 7, 2010 by fedupme

[pervez 4]

I have one more thing that I've always wondered. Let's say we become US citizen after the oath. But how does the country of birth knows that we are now citizens of another country? Do we automatically abandon our old citizenship once we become a US citizen? I mean many of us are still having the passports from the birth country. I just wonder how would this all work out by itself.

In most cases your home country will never know unless you tell them.

Passports are the property of the countries that issue them, not the property of you as the passport holder.

The US does not confiscate your old passport, and even if they would you would in most cases be able to contact the embassy of your home country and ask to get it back or get a new one.

[HeatDeath 430]

When you take your US citizenship oath, you orally renounce your allegiance to any other country. Whether you retain your old citizenship (once the old country becomes aware of your US citizenship) depends on the country.

China and India, among others [possibly Ukraine and/or Russia] , do not allow their citizens to hold any other citizenship. They will revoke your old citizenship when/if they become aware of the new once.

Germany will revoke your German citizenship unless you went through a paperwork process beforehand to get permision from the German government to get another citizenship.

Canada ignores the oral renunciation you made in your US citizenship oath. They will still consider you a Canadian citizen until and unless you fill out special paperwork at a Canadian embassy, formally renouncing your Canadian citizenship. I believe, but am not absolutely certain, that a good sized chunk of western Europe (but not Germany, see above) have the same position.

As you can see, this varies radically from country to country. You'll have to check with the consulates of the specific countries, unless someone in the region-specific forums here knows.

(I should point out that you cannot automatically lose your old citizenship. Even in cases where they summarily [and retroactively to the date of your US naturalization] revoke it upon learning of your US citizenship, you will be formally notified, and if you have not been notified, you are almost certainly still a citizen of that country.)

Edited November 7, 2010 by HeatDeath

[hhN400 3]

(I should point out that you cannot automatically lose your old citizenship. Even in cases where they summarily [and retroactively to the date of your US naturalization] revoke it upon learning of your US citizenship, you will be formally notified, and if you have not been notified, you are almost certainly still a citizen of that country.)

That's not necessarily true. In the case of Germany, for example, you automatically lose your German citizenship the minute you accept the naturalization certificate of another country unless you have obtained advance permission (Beibehaltungsgenehmigung) bei the German authorities to do so. Now, of course, whether the German authorities will ever become aware that you have obtained another citizenship is another matter, but legally the situation is quite clear. If you still pretend to be a German citizen and/or use your German passport without being in possession of your Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, you are committing fraud (or whatever they call this particular case of misrepresenting the truth). And they will find out the next time you want your passport renewed at the embassy because they require proof of your legal presence in the country. -- I know this for a fact because my wife wants to retain her German citizenship and she had to obtain the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung to be able to do so legally.

So, fedupme, if you're thinking of retaining your old citizenship, you should find out if, and if yes, under what circumstances, your country allows you to do so.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I have a friend in a German jail. He became a US citizen before the German law change of 01/01/2000 allowed for dual citizenship, provided a BBG had been applied for and issued before taking the oath. He assumed that nobody would ever know and continued to use his German passport when entering Germany. He temporarily moved back 18 months ago, and got a job. About 8 months ago he was arrested and prosecuted as an illegal alien who worked without authorization, pretending to be a German citizen. One of the charges was document fraud. He was sentenced to 1 year in prison and will be deported to the US once time is served. He will also never be allowed to visit his old country again.

[fedupme 0]

I see. The reason why I was asking is because I wanted to make sure everything is clear and final. I mean I am not trying to possess two citizenship or anything. I'm a Chinese at birth. And I believe neither US nor China allows dual citizenship. I guess next time when I revisit China, I will definitely apply for a visa to enter. Also I respect both countries dearly. While I'm taking the oath to America, I want to make sure that I say my most respectful farewell to my birth country as well, so I hope there is a formal way of letting the birth country know that I actually did become a citizen of another country. That's just my thought. I think I will ask some Chinese-American later about their experience. But thanks guys for your replies.

[hhN400 3]

... I'm a Chinese at birth. And I believe neither US nor China allows dual citizenship. ...

It seems that China indeed does not allow dual citizenship and that the loss of citizenship will be automatic if you get naturalized in another country. If you google "does China allow dual citizenship", you'll find plenty of information online.

[HeatDeath 430]

Wow. I would have thought that being stripped of one's citizenship would be accompanied by a lot more due process, especially in Western Europe. I stand corrected.

I'm glad I'm Canadian.

Edited November 7, 2010 by HeatDeath

[hhN400 3]

Wow. I would have thought that being stripped of one's citizenship would be accompanied by a lot more due process, especially in Western Europe. I stand corrected.

But you are not being stripped of your citizenship. The law says that you gave it up voluntarily the moment you accepted another citizenship. That does not require due process. In other words, the authorities are not going to come and ask you whether you really wanted to do that; the assumption is that you really did want to do that if you are of sound mind. Due process still applies if the authorities try to establish the fact that you hold a foreign citizenship. You may appeal their decision and fight it in the courts. But in the end it hinges on a simple fact: Did you or did you not accept being naturalized in another country. And if you did, then you have been a foreign citizen from the moment you accepted the other citizenship and all consequences flow from that.

Edited November 8, 2010 by hhN400

[pervez 4]

I have a friend in a German jail. He became a US citizen before the German law change of 01/01/2000 allowed for dual citizenship, provided a BBG had been applied for and issued before taking the oath. He assumed that nobody would ever know and continued to use his German passport when entering Germany. He temporarily moved back 18 months ago, and got a job. About 8 months ago he was arrested and prosecuted as an illegal alien who worked without authorization, pretending to be a German citizen. One of the charges was document fraud. He was sentenced to 1 year in prison and will be deported to the US once time is served. He will also never be allowed to visit his old country again.

Wow, I guess it´s good to be from a small country then...

Today Iceland does officially not care if you have another citizenship, or 10, but back when it was illegal to have another one it was one of those 'naughty, naughty´ slap on the wrist kind of offenses.

Just out of curiosity, this BBG process, is it relatively hard to get approved or relatively easy?

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Wow. I would have thought that being stripped of one's citizenship would be accompanied by a lot more due process, especially in Western Europe. I stand corrected.

I'm glad I'm Canadian.

Western Europe has several countries, each of which has different laws on this subject. Germany (subject of hhN400) doesn't allow duality, where UK does (exactly like Canada, but different fees/forms).

Wow, I guess it´s good to be from a small country then...

Today Iceland does officially not care if you have another citizenship, or 10, but back when it was illegal to have another one it was one of those 'naughty, naughty´ slap on the wrist kind of offenses.

Just out of curiosity, this BBG process, is it relatively hard to get approved or relatively easy?

depends on your definition of "small"--UK is small in area, but substantial (about 1/5 US, and about twice Canada) population, and allows dual-citizenship.

[v333k 59]

To answer the original question - you have to notify you current country of your status changes - actually even when you become a resident of a different country. Each country handles it differently. Some countries allow dual citizenship and others don't. Some, as JustBob said, take it to extreme measures since you did not do your duty as a citizen of X country, and notified the authorities of your status changes. Others could care less.

For the US, they do not recognize dual citizenship - but they do not force you to give up other citizenships. The way they look at it is that you are a US citizen and a US citizen only. You MUST leave/enter the US with a valid US passport and that's all they care about.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Yes. For now.

But here's the thing. When taking the Oath of Allegiance, one really swears off any loyalty to any other country. But, and it's a big BUT, it is possible, just possible, that one day an elected President of the United States will say . . . ####### . . . I don't accept that. That's hogwash. These new Americans have sworn and I will hold them accountable for their oath. This ain't Disneyland, after all.

Whoops, 1 signature on 1 Executive Order and every naturalized citizen has to provide proof within a certain time frame that they did indeed say goodbye to their former past.

Is it likely? I don't know. But it sure as heaven is possible.

[Captain Oates 911]

Until the U.S. has free universal health care, there is no way I would give up my U.K. Citizenship. It could mean the difference between life and death or at least being reduced to abject poverty. My red passport guarantees that can never happen to me.

I like life in the U.S. but only so long as I am reasonably healthy and the insurance is paying up. I feel sorry for Americans who have no safety net were things to go badly wrong with their health and the insurance company stops coverage or wriggles out of the contract...

Most Americans simply refuse to think about it. My USC wife is deeply aware of this reality and plans on doing 3 years in the U.K. and getting a red passport when she early retires. She lived there for a year and didn't pay a cent - or even a penny. It is worth literally millions of dollars or even life itself in some circumstances.

If the U.K. started to refuse dual citizenship I would withdraw my U.S. Citizenship application right now. I reckon a lot of Canadians would too from what I have read.

[pervez 4]

Until the U.S. has free universal health care, there is no way I would give up my U.K. Citizenship. It could mean the difference between life and death or at least being reduced to abject poverty. My red passport guarantees that can never happen to me.

I like life in the U.S. but only so long as I am reasonably healthy and the insurance is paying up. I feel sorry for Americans who have no safety net were things to go badly wrong with their health and the insurance company stops coverage or wriggles out of the contract...

Most Americans simply refuse to think about it. My USC wife is deeply aware of this reality and plans on doing 3 years in the U.K. and getting a red passport when she early retires. She lived there for a year and didn't pay a cent - or even a penny. It is worth literally millions of dollars or even life itself in some circumstances.

If the U.K. started to refuse dual citizenship I would withdraw my U.S. Citizenship application right now. I reckon a lot of Canadians would too from what I have read.

That's exactly how I feel. If I, my wife (who was born here) or any of our children ever get terminally ill I/we are out of here ASAP. I'm not bankrupting myself here because this country has a lot of silly people that don't get it how universal coverage gives a peace of mind and simply for the most part takes healthcare concerns out of the picture.