As Texas encourages minorities to take the SAT, average scores drop

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Which explains why Indian kids taking the test in New Delhi with very little exposure to American Caucasian culture do so well. Give me a break, Steven.

I don't know BY, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

New Evidence of Racial Bias on SAT

A new study may revive arguments that the average test scores of black students trail those of white students not just because of economic disadvantages, but because some parts of the test result in differential scores by race for students of equal academic prowess.

The finding -- already being questioned by the College Board -- could be extremely significant as many colleges that continue to rely on the SAT may be less comfortable doing so amid allegations that it is biased against black test-takers.

"The confirmation of unfair test results throws into question the validity of the test and, consequently, all decisions based on its results. All admissions decisions based exclusively or predominantly on SAT performance -- and therefore access to higher education institutions and subsequent job placement and professional success -- appear to be biased against the African American minority group and could be exposed to legal challenge," says the study, which has just appeared in Harvard Educational Review (abstract available here).

The existence of racial patterns on SAT scores is hardly new. The average score on the reading part of the SAT was 429 for black students last year -- 99 points behind the average for white students. And while white students' scores were flat, the average score for black students fell by one. Statistics like these are debated every year when SAT data are released, and when similar breakdowns are offered on other standardized tests.

The standard explanation offered by defenders of the tests is that the large gaps reflect the inequities in American society -- since black students are less likely than white students to attend well-financed, generously-staffed elementary and secondary schools, their scores lag.

In other words, the College Board says that American society is unfair, but the SAT is fair. And while many educators question that fairness of using a test on which wealthier students do consistently better than less wealthy students, research findings that directly isolate race as a factor in the fairness of individual SAT questions have, of late, been few.

The new paper in fact is based on a study that set out to replicate one of the last major studies to do so -- a paper published in the Harvard Educational Review in 2003, strongly attacked by the College Board -- and the new paper confirms those results (but using more recent SAT exams). The new paper is by Maria Santelices, assistant professor of education at the Catholic University of Chile, and Mark Wilson, professor of education at the University of California at Berkeley. The earlier study was by Roy Freedle of the Educational Testing Service.

The focus of both studies is on questions that show "differential item functioning," known by its acronym DIF. A DIF question is one on which students "matched by proficiency" and other factors have variable scores, predictably by race, on selected questions. A DIF question has notable differences between black and white (or, in theory, other subsets of students) whose educational background and skill set suggest that they should get similar scores. The 2003 study and this year's found no DIF issues in the mathematics section.

But what Freedle found in 2003 has now been confirmed independently by the new study: that some kinds of verbal questions have a DIF for black and white students. On some of the easier verbal questions, the two studies found that a DIF favored white students. On some of the most difficult verbal questions, the DIF favored black students. Freedle's theory about why this would be the case was that easier questions are likely reflected in the cultural expressions that are used commonly in the dominant (white) society, so white students have an edge based not on education or study skills or aptitude, but because they are most likely growing up around white people. The more difficult words are more likely to be learned, not just absorbed.

While the studies found gains for both black and white students on parts of the SAT, the white advantage is larger such that the studies suggest scores for black students are being held down by the way the test is scored and that a shift to favor the more difficult questions would benefit black test-takers.

link

Edited September 21, 2010 by El Buscador

[^_^ 5,021]

I don't know BY, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

Am I? So foreign kids with little everyday exposure to American Caucasian culture (if such a thing even exists) are apples to the American Caucasian's oranges.... but the dumbasses who fill up our inner city public schools and learn nothing, achieving nothing but eating away at valuable tax revenue with no hope of ever producing anything of value ... are oranges. Ok, got it.

Whatever, dude.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Legacy member

[Saddle Bronc 124]

I don't know BY, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

link

BY is an Aussie (and a Caucasian) while AJ/LM is a desi!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You ignore, of course, how well foreign students do on these tests. As do all the "studies" you like to quote. These "studies" have agendas, to cover up for how inherently stupid certain people are.

Because foregin students are generally better educated so they do better on tests. Our youngest son (the only one not already in college) can use either the SAT or the TOEFL as a qualifier...or both, since he will have his high school education in English but has been here less than 7 years when he enters college. He is 15 and will graduate high school in the Spring at age (barely) 16. He is an average student but his Ukrainian education was so far ahead he had to be moved up two grades just to get into something he already had not been taught. And that is in Vermont, consistently one of the top states for education. He could probably already get a bachelors degree from Ol' Miss.

[^_^ 5,021]

Because foregin students are generally better educated so they do better on tests.

Good answer! And yet, this does not explain the discrepancy between test scores between American students of Caucasian or Asian descent and those of other ancestries. Even when they go to the same school, sit in the same classroom and are instructed by the same instructor, this discrepancy exists.

One wonders why.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Am I? So foreign kids with little everyday exposure to American Caucasian culture (if such a thing even exists) are apples to the American Caucasian's oranges.... but the dumbasses who fill up our inner city public schools and learn nothing, achieving nothing but eating away at valuable tax revenue with no hope of ever producing anything of value ... are oranges. Ok, got it.

Whatever, dude.

If we concentrate and improve our education here, our kids will soon speak English as well as Russians. Maybe then we will not have to ask them for a ride to our space station.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Am I? So foreign kids with little everyday exposure to American Caucasian culture (if such a thing even exists) are apples to the American Caucasian's oranges.... but the dumbasses who fill up our inner city public schools and learn nothing, achieving nothing but eating away at valuable tax revenue with no hope of ever producing anything of value ... are oranges. Ok, got it.

Whatever, dude.

You are so good, its uncanny.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are so good, its uncanny.

He makes a valid point. You cover up inadequacies with skewed "studies". American education if far, far down the list...any list, and it is embarassing. The only thing that saves us is that we have a large population and it only takes, fortunately, a few geniuses to prop up the rest of the slackers who go along texting in there cell phones without any clue of where they are. So far anyway.

Good education could end a lot of the need for government services...uh, oops, forgot...that's what you want.

[^_^ 5,021]

You cover up inadequacies with skewed "studies".

Exactly! All I want to see is American education do better. Do people even realize how not-well-off the average American is by international standards? The reason for this is, as you point out, the poor state of our educational system which breeds greater levels of dependence on the evil geniuses who run our government.

And yet it is perplexing to anyone without a little bit of common sense why American students of certain ancestries seem to do better than others. Study after study have shown this. One wonders why our PhD programs are flooded with kids from certain backgrounds and not others. One wonders why even the foreign students in those programs all come from Korea and China and Germany and India and not Nigeria.

Yes, one wonders.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You cover up inadequacies with skewed "studies".

The study was conducted by the Harvard Educational Review. Perhaps you'd like to point out how they 'skewed' the study?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Exactly! All I want to see is American education do better. Do people even realize how not-well-off the average American is by international standards? The reason for this is, as you point out, the poor state of our educational system which breeds greater levels of dependence on the evil geniuses who run our government.

And yet it is perplexing to anyone without a little bit of common sense why American students of certain ancestries seem to do better than others. Study after study have shown this. One wonders why our PhD programs are flooded with kids from certain backgrounds and not others. One wonders why even the foreign students in those programs all come from Korea and China and Germany and India and not Nigeria.

Yes, one wonders.

This has nothing to do with discrepancies of intelligence.

But what Freedle found in 2003 has now been confirmed independently by the new study: that some kinds of verbal questions have a DIF for black and white students. On some of the easier verbal questions, the two studies found that a DIF favored white students. On some of the most difficult verbal questions, the DIF favored black students. Freedle's theory about why this would be the case was that easier questions are likely reflected in the cultural expressions that are used commonly in the dominant (white) society, so white students have an edge based not on education or study skills or aptitude, but because they are most likely growing up around white people. The more difficult words are more likely to be learned, not just absorbed.

While the studies found gains for both black and white students on parts of the SAT, the white advantage is larger such that the studies suggest scores for black students are being held down by the way the test is scored and that a shift to favor the more difficult questions would benefit black test-takers.

link

[chri'stina 190]

Exactly! All I want to see is American education do better. Do people even realize how not-well-off the average American is by international standards? The reason for this is, as you point out, the poor state of our educational system which breeds greater levels of dependence on the evil geniuses who run our government.

And yet it is perplexing to anyone without a little bit of common sense why American students of certain ancestries seem to do better than others. Study after study have shown this. One wonders why our PhD programs are flooded with kids from certain backgrounds and not others. One wonders why even the foreign students in those programs all come from Korea and China and Germany and India and not Nigeria.

Yes, one wonders.

Are you really saying "one wonders", or are you just being a smart-butt?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Good answer! And yet, this does not explain the discrepancy between test scores between American students of Caucasian or Asian descent and those of other ancestries. Even when they go to the same school, sit in the same classroom and are instructed by the same instructor, this discrepancy exists.

One wonders why.

Socialism.

Why? Better yet..."Why not?" Some in our society are TAUGHT that the government will provide for them..so just text on your cell phones and don't worry about it. On the other hand, cultures of people who HAD socialism (or communism) and KNOW how terrible it is to live under the control of the government, encourage their children, drill their children, do not accept less than the best from their children. Let one of OUR kids get a 3.93 grade average and listen to the rafters rattle in Russian and English as to why it isn't 3.98...or 4.0!

It is because other cultures ACCEPT less than the best because they have been TOLD they are less than the best and that they would be subsidized because "no one can expect you to do as well as those other kids" It just isn't fair.

The result, just as the result of those studies, is calculated. It is not a mistake, it is not by chance.

[^_^ 5,021]

This has nothing to do with discrepancies of intelligence.

Typical liberal tactic. You want me to disregard what I see with my own eyes and believe a Haaaah-vad study instead.

GFY, lib. Your Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.

[^_^ 5,021]

Socialism.

Why? Better yet..."Why not?" Some in our society are TAUGHT that the government will provide for them..so just text on your cell phones and don't worry about it. On the other hand, cultures of people who HAD socialism (or communism) and KNOW how terrible it is to live under the control of the government, encourage their children, drill their children, do not accept less than the best from their children. Let one of OUR kids get a 3.93 grade average and listen to the rafters rattle in Russian and English as to why it isn't 3.98...or 4.0!

It is because other cultures ACCEPT less than the best because they have been TOLD they are less than the best and that they would be subsidized because "no one can expect you to do as well as those other kids" It just isn't fair.

The result, just as the result of those studies, is calculated. It is not a mistake, it is not by chance.

Another good point, Gary. I remember being raked over the coals by the parental units when I got a high score in a test but not the highest! Culture does make a difference, in that sense Steven may have a point. Students who perform poorly on the SATs perhaps come from inferior cultures.