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UK - US could it be divorce ?

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: England
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The UK papers are full of dismay over President Obama's 'aggressive rhetoric' about BP

eg 'Keep my foot on their throat'

and 'He wouldn't be working for me' ie sack him.

and the pressure to stop the dividend to UK pension funds

Virtually all British Pension funds are heavily invested in this company and this electioneering stuff is going to hurt them and the tax take of the UK and the US and put the gulf oil workers out of a job.

Is Mr O just posturing for November ? - after all, none of this stops a drop of oil coming up. What about the American accident at piper alpha in the north sea - the Brits didn't get all racist about that

What about the Space shuttle deadly failures - it didn't stop that program and NASA wasn't vilified and nobody put a boot on their neck

I have 2 UK private pensions and BP shares so that's my interest - but also I am proud of BP as a very highly rated international company who have drilled 30,000 wells with no spills

I think MR O has gone over the line - what do you think ?

cop this >

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7815713/Barack-Obamas-attacks-on-BP-hurting-British-pensioners.html


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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: United Kingdom
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Of course Mr O is over the line. Notice he deflects all of the blame over to BP and takes no responsibility for the government's complicity in letting BP get away with cutting corners and then the government's irresponsibility to not begin mitigating the damages according to a plan drawn up in 1994. Both sides are clearly at fault for the mess getting to where it is.

But this is not surprising. Obama has clearly shown that he absolutely hates business. This is the most anti-business administration I think this country has ever seen.


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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: England
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Of course Mr O is over the line. Notice he deflects all of the blame over to BP and takes no responsibility for the government's complicity in letting BP get away with cutting corners and then the government's irresponsibility to not begin mitigating the damages according to a plan drawn up in 1994. Both sides are clearly at fault for the mess getting to where it is.

But this is not surprising. Obama has clearly shown that he absolutely hates business. This is the most anti-business administration I think this country has ever seen.

In the UK they would shelve the criticism until the enquiry - it's frustrating but they have this fairness thing going. Could be that there is blame for US gov and BP and Hallibuton and transocean with one of them catching the majority of it.

What if the court said 85% transocean for not fixing the rubber seal that got damaged one month before. The BP guy could have been relying on the blow out preventer and not dreamed that Transocean would leave it with no seal for a whole month.

I think Mr O should have waited for the enquiry. Sure the BP CEO said something that sounds stupid but which one of us can take that sort of pressure and say a billion things and not get one thing wrong ever. Even MR O had to apologize for ragging the white police officer who had a run in with his friend. He made a mistake and apologized and Tony Hayward made a mistake and apologized - how come Tony Hayward's apology is not accepted but Mr O's is.

I was an Obama fan originally but he is going all Tony Blair - will we ever learn about these charismatics ?

The father of the NHS Aneurin Bevan was about as stinky and scruffy and unpersonable and repulsive as they come - but he got the NHS set up and did more for the country than all the rest of em put together. What did Blair do ? Now there is a lesson.


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I was an Obama fan originally but he is going all Tony Blair - will we ever learn about these charismatics ?

That's all Obama is, just a charismatic charlatan. Prior to becoming president he had zero leadership or executive experience. He doesn't know what he's doing and while oil has been spilling out in the gulf coast, he's gone on 2 vacations, played golf, basketball and attended fundraisers.

People are finally figuring out that the emperor is wearing no clothes. It's just too bad that we have to have him around for another two years.


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I was one of the most passionate Obama advocates, even donated money to his campaign. I believed his promise of change, such as a public healthcare option (didn't happen), believed that we would get the hell out of the wars (didn't happen; $1,000,000,000,000.00 of taxpayers' money spent so far), believed in immigration reform (didn't happen), believed in banking reform (didn't happen), in short, I believed in a man who would kick ####, right away, while showing big corporations the erected middle finger. None of this turned out to be the case.

I know Bush was a crook, a moron, completely incompetent, deeply embedded in the corporate landscape, helping his buddies in oil and warfare out.

What almost makes Obama worse is that he has no stand at all. His balls are in a glass jar at home, and he is as incompetent as Bush was. Sure, he's more intelligent, better educated, and most of all gives better speeches. But what levels this out is that he betrayed so many of us who stood up for him and believed what he promised yet never delivered. In my opinion Obama is a career politician, a multi-millionaire looking for popularity and buddies in every aisle.

Truthfully, I wish the Democrats would elect another Presidential candidate for 2012. Won't happen as well.

Edited by Just Bob

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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Well, as much as it stinks, sewage is a fertilizer, good for gardening. Crude oil isn't; it's a killer.

If I were the President of the United States, you'd see 40 or 50 supertankers pumping oil off the ocean, non-stop, instead of being deployed otherwise.

It's what . . . day 55 and all I see from the President is speeches about BP.


There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all . . . . The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic . . . . There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

President Teddy Roosevelt on Columbus Day 1915

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Okay, being serious Maven here (yes, I do exist sometimes) who used to work for a big UK pension fund.

There is absolutely no way in hell that what Obama says he wants BP to do will have any direct effect on what you get in terms of your dividend on your UK-domiciled BP shares. Certainly, there will be shareholder resolutions up the wazoo last year from US, UK and European investors (not just your Sisters of the Poor ones, but the CalPERS and my old fund at the Railways) that will certainly bring some pressure to bear. There are going to be meetings in their proper forum -- the UK -- with the chairman and chief exec, as well as whoever is division head. Investors will have some long and difficult talks with BP; some will bail. Your investment is likely to go down in the short- to medium-term. The enquiry is going to keep the price volatile. The combination of the enquiry and direct and indirect shareholder pressure will have the largest effect on your pension fund return vis-a-vis BP.

Ultimately, is BP still a good investment? I'm not a stock-picker, I'm a governance girl. I may not be able to tell you to buy and sell, but I know a little of the inner workings of that company. It f^cked up seriously when it took Tony Hayward on, and that was the feeling amongst a lot of governance people at the time (I was one of them). He seemed like an arrogant #######, and working directly with FTSE350 directors and chief execs, I've met a lot of arrogant, condescending pricks. The cancer is at the top and also at the way the divisions are structured, where they are played off against each other (see GE for another example where this went wrong). But BP is a cash cow and is not going to stop being one. This is an opportunity, THE opportunity for this company, which already does a lot right for a big bad oil company, to become an industry leader in governance. They are going to need some help and they will be looking not to replicate the mistakes of the past. I'd say BP looks like a good bet in the long-term IF they decide to see this as the big opportunity it is.

So Alan? When are you planning on dying? I think you're probably going to be fine in the longer-term horizon.

We will now return to the regularly-scheduled Maven programme of lingerie ticklefests.


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What almost makes Obama worse is that he has no stand at all. His balls are in a glass jar at home, and he is as incompetent as Bush was. Sure, he's more intelligent, better educated, and most of all give better speeches. But what levels this out is that he betrayed so many of us who stood up for him and believed what he promised yet never delivered.

Well it's not like he can do this all by himself, his failure imo was his inability to get his team in line. It's sad that you should have to heard your own party like cattle but they are too busy not listening to him, serving their own interests or that of the corporations that bought them.

I think he has a stand, I also think none of the Dems care. Some of Clinton's tactics in the primaries were dirty, it would have been the reason I wouldn't have voted for her (if I could have) but in retrospect I think she wouldn't have taken so much BS lying down, especially over health care.

The meekness of democratic politicians has been very frustrating.

The American public over the oil spill though...it's like they expected him to wave a magic wand and for it to be all gone, his bleating over BP is just trying to circumvent the situation to appease the public and look like his is doing something. Anything.

--

As for the corruption. Please, like all this started happening the day he came into office. If you had Jesus himself as US president tomorrow, it would take even him forever to root out all the immoral behavior saturated into government, I'm sure had he known that a huge oil spillage was going to occur this year he'd have made it (the behavior/relationship of federal employees with oil reps) his priority along with employment, healthcare, immigration e.t.c. You'd think the man inherited sugar and rainbows.


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I am proud of BP as a very highly rated international company who have drilled 30,000 wells with no spills

Are you kidding?

BP has the worst environmental track record in history!

1) March 2005 - a massive explosion at BP's refinery in Texas City killed 15 workers and injured 170 others. Investigators later determined that BP had ignored its own protocols on operating the tower, which was filled with gasoline, and that a warning system had been disabled. The company pleaded guilty to federal felony charges and was fined more than $50 million by the US Environmental Protection Agency.

2) 2006 - technicians discovered that some 4,800 barrels of oil had spread into the Alaskan snow through a tiny hole in BP's pipeline in Prudhoe Bay. BP had been warned to check the pipeline in 2002, but hadn't. When it did inspect it, four years later, it found that a six-mile length of pipeline was corroded. BP faced $12 million in fines for a misdemeanor violation of the federal Water Pollution Control Act.

3) There were more spills in Alaska.

4) In 2007, the EPA, under the Bush administration, said it was powerless to stop BP from dumping toxic waste into Lake Michigan from its expanded refinery that was processing increased amounts of heavy crude oil from Canada.

5) BP was charged with manipulating the market price of propane. In that case, it settled with the US Department of Justice and agreed to pay more than $300 million in fines.

6) Between June 2007 and February 2010, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) checked 55 oil refineries operating in the U.S. Two were owned by BP, and those racked up 760 citations for "egregiously willful" safety violations - defined as committed with plain indifference to or intentional disregard for employee safety and health. The other 53 refineries - put together - only received one such violation.

Sorry, but BP got what was coming to them.


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Obama is being a politician during all this, not a leader. Surprised the UK papers haven't twigged to this yet.

Bush got reamed for his post Katrina days (as well he should have!!) - I honestly don't see this much differently.


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Obama is being a politician during all this, not a leader. Surprised the UK papers haven't twigged to this yet.

(Note this is not meant to be sarcastic at all :) ) What should he do about this exactly though?

There is no way public money should be used to clean this problem up, this is BPs problem. If Obama forces BP into particular actions with their own money, there would be hell up that that is anti American and anti business. So apart from pressing BP into trying more things and start shouting at them when they shrug their shoulders and go "well, I dunno what to do" I can't see exactly what he is meant to do in all this.

I guess he could get other "industry experts" in to fix the problem, whatever it takes and then send BP the bill - is that still considered anti business? Typical democratic government getting involved in something they have no business doing?


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I dunno, I guess I was naively thinking he would pull together people (business, govt agencies, oil industry experts, perhaps even Joe Q Citizen) and task them with finding a solution that would work for first, capping the damn leak, and then tackling the cleanup (both on the water and at the coast). It appeared to me to be a bunch of blame being thrown around but no action on facilitating or directing a working plan.

Bush did a piss poor job after Katrina of making sure the various govt agencies were doing what they should be doing in a timely manner - no coordination. Seems to me a lot of the same is going on here. Relying on BP to fix it for so long when they are clearly out of their depth was like :bonk: to me.

Edited by TracyTN

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All of those people would need paying though, so does that mean that's the last option? Getting qualified people to fix the problem and then send BP the bill?

So much for the private corporations don't need regulating someone standing behind them making they're behaving properly.

Hopefully when this is over the MMS will get a shakedown and responsibilities organised in such a way that there aren't so many conflicts of interest.


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