Unskilled workers don't have a path to permanent residency

[Moonandstar 6]

I know they don't. I lived there for a decade. Are you suggesting we become like China?

Hardly. What I'm saying is that they have no immigration pathway for an obvious reason: too many people. Having lived here for a decade tells me you should know that a large percentage of their laws (excluding the way they're enforced) are actually very common sense based. And seeing as how the US already has 1/5th of their population, i am saying we need to start cutting down.

[GabiandVi 34]

How many times have your spouse's relatives or friends asked you how they can come to America? And what can you tell them? There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill (in which case they are already educated and probably can do as well in their own country) or, if your country participates, you win the greencard lottery.

Sorry, i think i'm gonna have to go with sachinky on this one. Never. In fact, they're dirt poor. So is my fiancee, and even for her the only reason she has agreed to go is to be with me. The US isn't quite the center of the universe as it like to portray itself as.

Good for your fiancee's family. But it is irrelevant to the point. There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill or you win the greencard lottery.

As for the US not being the center of the universe, you are preaching to the choir. But it doesn't change the UNDENIABLE fact that, while your fiancee's family and Sachincky's family haven't expressed any desire to come here, MILLIONS around the world do to the point that some even risk dying in ship containers etc. to get here. Meanwhile, unless they fit the criteria listed above, there is no way for them to come LEGALLY.

[Moonandstar 6]

Good for your fiancee's family. But it is irrelevant to the point. There is NO WAY to come legally unless you have an immediate family member to petition you or you have a special skill or you win the greencard lottery.

As for the US not being the center of the universe, you are preaching to the choir. But it doesn't change the UNDENIABLE fact that, while your fiancee's family and Sachincky's family haven't expressed any desire to come here, MILLIONS around the world do to the point that some even risk dying in ship containers etc. to get here. Meanwhile, unless they fit the criteria listed above, there is no way for them to come LEGALLY.

But is that really a problem? One that needs to be fixed? No other country in the world has a "I just really want to be here" visa, that includes a path to citizenship nonetheless. I think proper enforcement of ones borders and immigration laws (again, LIKE any other country in the world) would eliminate the need to say, "Well, since you really want to be here, and we cant stop you from doing it illegally, lets just call you legal instead."

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

So you are basically advocating handing out visas to every Tom, ####### and Harry unskilled laborer who wants to 'better his life' and is willing to mop floors just to be 'the Land of the Brave and Free' so that the tax base keeps on increasing?

At least I'm not hating on them because of a big dose of bitter due to waiting on a visa.

Sure we would - there are 15 million unemployed Americans at the moment.

Mark, I hate to break it to you but most of these people aren't trying to get jobs in hotels and restaurants. They are trying to find private sector jobs that pay a living wage and offer health insurance.

[GabiandVi 34]

But is that really a problem? One that needs to be fixed? No other country in the world has a "I just really want to be here" visa, that includes a path to citizenship nonetheless. I think proper enforcement of ones borders and immigration laws (again, LIKE any other country in the world) would eliminate the need to say, "Well, since you really want to be here, and we cant stop you from doing it illegally, lets just call you legal instead."

I don't know if you are conveniently disregarding that we are discussing a visa based on a need for workers, or if you actually cannot in your head separate that concept from "I just want to be here." I would certainly hope that anyone who is granted a visa really wants to be here. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case but that's another topic I have no sympathy for those hypocrites.

If you want to debate the path to residency/citizenship with regards to an unskilled worker visa, that's fine. But please stop debating that there should be no visa for people just because they want one. You are talking to the air. There is no one on the other side of that debate. If you insist on persisting, I want to make it very clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT VISAS BASED ON THE NEED OR DESIRES OF THE INTENDING IMMIGRANT, so leave me out of your discussion with yourself.

As for "we can't stop you from doing it illegally, lets just call you legal instead," that's what I'm looking for solutions to fight against. There was, at least at one time, SOME truth to the statement that illegals do jobs Americans don't want. If we had something like this visa in place, there would be NO excuse to hire illegals!

[mawilson 2,133]

Mark, I hate to break it to you but most of these people aren't trying to get jobs in hotels and restaurants. They are trying to find private sector jobs that pay a living wage and offer health insurance.

Stop extending unemployment benefits and these people will become desperate enough to want any job.

[Moonandstar 6]

As for "we can't stop you from doing it illegally, lets just call you legal instead," that's what I'm looking for solutions to fight against. There was, at least at one time, SOME truth to the statement that illegals do jobs Americans don't want. If we had something like this visa in place, there would be NO excuse to hire illegals!

Again, what need for "unskilled" workers? Regardless of weather or not illegal immigrants are present.

And although from SOME people's points of views, it may seem like the vast majority of Americans are "too good for certain jobs", it certainly dosent seem like that to me. Money is money.

This is a problem that every country has to deal with in one way or another, but no one else says 'lets do it by bringing in foreign laborers, to do the jobs too "dirty" for us'.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Moonandstar

[natty bumppo 297]

Stop extending unemployment benefits and these people will become desperate enough to want any job.

including yours?

[mawilson 2,133]

including yours?

Sure, including mine.

[GabiandVi 34]

Mark, I hate to break it to you but most of these people aren't trying to get jobs in hotels and restaurants. They are trying to find private sector jobs that pay a living wage and offer health insurance.

Actually, I don't think that is an excuse. If your family needs money, you should be willing to take a job in a hotel or restaurant. The fact that some unemployed people are holding out for a better job isn't a reason to give the job to an illegal immigrant. The American should be denied support unless they are willing to do such jobs while they wait.

Having said that, the people I know who would take an unskilled worker visa if it were available would be willing to collect shopping carts in the Walmart parking lot even though they are engineers or doctors in their own countries. They wouldn't turn their noses up at any job, and for that I'd rather have them as my neighbor, fellow American, employee than many Americans.

[GabiandVi 34]

Again, what need for "unskilled" workers? Regardless of weather or not illegal immigrants are present.

And although from SOME people's points of views, it may seem like the vast majority of Americans are "too good for certain jobs", it certainly dosent seem like that to me. Money is money.

This is a problem that every country has to deal with in one way or another, but no one else says 'lets do it by bringing in foreign laborers, to do the jobs too "dirty" for us'.

I agree that we shouldn't bring in LEGAL immigrants (illegal is illegal and there should be no tolerance for it) to do jobs just because Americans don't want them even if they need them. (See my response to Johnnyquest above.) I was referring to a time when there were no Americans to take the jobs because we had low unemployment.

I have hope we will get to that point again. And if we could get rid of all the illegal immigrants, we wouldn't be far off and we might even be to that point already. In that case, it would be stupid to not offer visas to unskilled workers and it would only promote more illegal immigration. Now, you can disagree that such a visa should offer a path to residency or citizenship, but it would be the height of blind stubborness to close the door to any such visa being offered.

[Moonandstar 6]

Having said that, the people I know who would take an unskilled worker visa if it were available would be willing to collect shopping carts in the Walmart parking lot even though they are engineers or doctors in their own countries. They wouldn't turn their noses up at any job, and for that I'd rather have them as my neighbor, fellow American, employee than many Americans.

I can agree there, they're ARE some very good, and even 'deserving', in some sense, people out there, and i would much rather live with them than most Americans. Thats why i live in a country OTHER than America. Being a good boy, coupled with the fact that there are some Americans who don't want to get dirty doesn't entitle one to the citizenship of their choice. Maybe one day, but not as long as America is as big as it is. In case no one has considered it, it's an easy thing to grant citizenship to a foreigner. It's not so easy to revoke the citizenship of a citizen by birth.

I have hope we will get to that point again. And if we could get rid of all the illegal immigrants, we wouldn't be far off and we might even be to that point already. In that case, it would be stupid to not offer visas to unskilled workers and it would only promote more illegal immigration. Now, you can disagree that such a visa should offer a path to residency or citizenship, but it would be the height of blind stubborness to close the door to any such visa being offered.

Here here.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Moonandstar

[one...two...tree 2,762]

My great grandfather had moved his family to England from Ireland, looking for jobs in the mines. He and some other relatives answered an ad for miners in Southern Arizona back at the turn of the century and they came over here as unskilled laborers. It took him 3 years to earn enough money to bring his wife and five children over, who had stayed behind in England. They all ended up living here in America.

As Gabi keeps stating, if and when there is a need to import unskilled laborers, they should have a legal avenue for permanent residency as this how this country came to be. I find it peculiar that people here who are immigrating spouses seem to think they have an entitlement to immigrate while others don't, especially when many of their immigrant spouses are unskilled.

Edited June 3, 2010 by El Buscador

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

My great grandfather had moved his family to England from Ireland, looking for jobs in the mines. He and some other relatives answered an ad for miners in Southern Arizona back at the turn of the century and they came over here as unskilled laborers. It took him 3 years to earn enough money to bring his wife and five children over, who had stayed behind in England. They all ended up living here in America.

As Gabi keeps stating, if and when there is a need to import unskilled laborers, they should have a legal avenue for permanent residency as this how this country came to be. I find it peculiar that people here who are immigrating spouses seem to think they have an entitlement to immigrate while others don't, especially when many of their immigrant spouses are unskilled.

Words right out of my mouth.

Stop extending unemployment benefits and these people will become desperate enough to want any job.

Let them eat cake.

[Ban Hammer 13,995]

including yours?

i don't wanna sell geico insurance!