2 Lawsuits Challenge New Arizona Immigration Law

[PhiLandShiR 18]

The law does not allow for that.

It has to be a legal reason for the vehicle to be pulled over.--- Speeding, traffic violation, other vehicle violation, etc. - Nothing allows them to "just pull them over because they think they are illegal."

I understand this point... but... you said in your example:

"OR you pull over a large van, pull of day laborers.. It's pretty well good to assume that those in the back of the van/truck aren't exactly of 'legal' status."

I just wanted to know why the van was being stopped.... I am thinking that only the driver needs to show any ID. His passengers have done nothing to show cause for a search or anything...

[The_Dude 1,142]

The law does not allow for that.

It has to be a legal reason for the vehicle to be pulled over.--- Speeding, traffic violation, other vehicle violation, etc. - Nothing allows them to "just pull them over because they think they are illegal."

The law is asinine. Are they going to clog up the jails even more by putting every illegal alien they find in jail? They don't have the power to deport them.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I understand this point... but... you said in your example:

"OR you pull over a large van, pull of day laborers.. It's pretty well good to assume that those in the back of the van/truck aren't exactly of 'legal' status."

I just wanted to know why the van was being stopped.... I am thinking that only the driver needs to show any ID. His passengers have done nothing to show cause for a search or anything...

In many states, the passengers can be asked to present ID as well if the vehicle is being pulled over for a violation.

They've got even more reason now in Texas for instance where EVERYONE no matter where you are sitting in a vehicle has to be wearing a seatbelt.

The law is asinine. Are they going to clog up the jails even more by putting every illegal alien they find in jail? They don't have the power to deport them.

The law lets local authorities work in conjunction with Federal Authorities. -- They are already present in Arizona, this just lets local officials work with them to help combat the illegals.

[The_Dude 1,142]

In many states, the passengers can be asked to present ID as well if the vehicle is being pulled over for a violation.

They've got even more reason now in Texas for instance where EVERYONE no matter where you are sitting in a vehicle has to be wearing a seatbelt.

They can be asked..... but unless you are driving the car, you are not required to carry ID, only identify yourself.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

The law is asinine. Are they going to clog up the jails even more by putting every illegal alien they find in jail? They don't have the power to deport them.

You are correct, I don't believe they plan to even try to deport them. Simply turn them over to the Feds... As I understand it, now they are not even required to place them in Fed hands and can just let them go after time served or fine paid. The law mandates they get turned over to the Feds. I guess if the Feds want to just let them go they can but I think that would be a really hot potato(e) for sure...

[Obama 2012 1,714]

They can be asked..... but unless you are driving the car, you are not required to carry ID, only identify yourself.

and if you cannot Identify yourself, then that's grounds or arrest. It's not hard and applies to everyone already...

[mawilson 2,133]

and if you cannot Identify yourself, then that's grounds or arrest. It's not hard and applies to everyone already...

Yes, unfortunately US citizens no longer enjoy a constitutional right to refuse to reveal their identity when requested by police.

[The_Dude 1,142]

You are correct, I don't believe they plan to even try to deport them. Simply turn them over to the Feds... As I understand it, now they are not even required to place them in Fed hands and can just let them go after time served or fine paid. The law mandates they get turned over to the Feds. I guess if the Feds want to just let them go they can but I think that would be a really hot potato(e) for sure...

The police already do this. However, ICE is so overburdened and underfunded that a vast majority of the time, they decline.

and if you cannot Identify yourself, then that's grounds or arrest. It's not hard and applies to everyone already...

I don't need an ID card to identify myself. You tell the officer your name and WHAM!!! I've identified myself

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The police already do this. However, ICE is so overburdened and underfunded that a vast majority of the time, they decline.

I don't need an ID card to identify myself. You tell the officer your name and WHAM!!! I've identified myself

they check you out in many states, just as this bill allows the officers to do here. You know, when they go back to their car, run your ID in the computer or 'look you up' if you've given them a name/address.... They already do this. Now it just allows them to take in those who are here illegally. Scum, trash, vermin, etc.

[PhiLandShiR 18]

Yes, unfortunately US citizens no longer enjoy a constitutional right to refuse to reveal their identity when requested by police.

I am not sure we ever had that... I am thinking that when I got my drivers license I signed something that said if I wanted to keep it, I needed to show it upon demand...

I guess if you don't have any ID, and never ever applied for any ID, you can be safe in not providing any if asked by the police...

But I made a choice at that time and decided that driveing was the better deal...

[The_Dude 1,142]

they check you out in many states, just as this bill allows the officers to do here. You know, when they go back to their car, run your ID in the computer or 'look you up' if you've given them a name/address.... They already do this. Now it just allows them to take in those who are here illegally. Scum, trash, vermin, etc.

Yeah, I get that, but you seem to miss the crux of your argument. What do they do next? They aren't going to deport them, and ICE doesn't have the capacity to. So they will either have a catch and release policy at the county jails, or they will start building those tent city jails. Real great use of state tax money.

[mawilson 2,133]

I am not sure we ever had that... I am thinking that when I got my drivers license I signed something that said if I wanted to keep it, I needed to show it upon demand...

I guess if you don't have any ID, and never ever applied for any ID, you can be safe in not providing any if asked by the police...

But I made a choice at that time and decided that driveing was the better deal...

"Identify yourself", not "show ID".

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

they check you out in many states, just as this bill allows the officers to do here. You know, when they go back to their car, run your ID in the computer or 'look you up' if you've given them a name/address.... They already do this. Now it just allows them to take in those who are here illegally. Scum, trash, vermin, etc.

How are they going to look up a suspected illegal immigrant?

[Peikko 1,575]

Scum, trash and vermin? And we are supposed to believe that you are taking a rational and objective view on this issue?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

How are they going to look up a suspected illegal immigrant?

Just the same as they would a citizen. Arrest them until identity can be confirmed.

Scum, trash and vermin? And we are supposed to believe that you are taking a rational and objective view on this issue?

It is quite rational. They are individuals who broke our laws, broke into our country illegally, using our resources. The shoe fits quite nicely actually. They are no different than your common every day criminals roaming the streets. Oh wait, some of them are that too to they get the double title.