Wind-energy creating energy glut in Europe, utiilities are PAYING CONSUMERS to keep lights on

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

April 23 (Bloomberg) -- On windy nights in northern Germany, consumers are paid to keep the lights on.

Twice this year, the nation’s 21,000 wind turbines pumped out so much power that utilities reduced customer bills for using the surplus electricity.

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Electricity-network managers have even ordered windmills offline at times to trim supplies.

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Germany has doubled capacity to generate power from wind since 2002 and has turbines producing about 7.5 percent of the nation’s electricity, according to the German Wind Energy Association. That compares with 4.8 percent for the European Union and about 1 percent in the U.S. The turbines operate about a third of the time and are idle in calm weather.

“Wind is playing an important role in spot-price volatility because it’s very difficult to predict when more power is coming on line,” said Ruxandra Haradau-Doeser, an analyst at Bankhaus Metzler in Frankfurt.

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“Negative electricity prices happen when supply outstrips demand and we literally don’t know where to put it,” Peter Smits, head of central Europe at Swiss power-equipment maker ABB Ltd., said in an interview on April 20 in Hanover. “We will see this happen more often in the future.”

One solution is more investment in transmission systems to move power from northern Germany wind farms to heavy industry in the south, he said. “Power transmission is the bottleneck.”

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Storing electricity may be another fix. In Scandinavia, Danish wind power is used to pump water into Norwegian and Swedish reservoirs and later released to drive hydroelectric plants when the wind is not blowing.

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Texas had so-called negative power prices in the first half of 2008 because wind turbines in the western part of the state weren’t adequately linked with more populated regions in the east, according to the Electricity Reliability Council of Texas.

Until there’s more integration and better transmission grids, prices probably will fluctuate, leading to negative prices, in which payment to consumers is reflected as a discount on their monthly bills.

That hasn’t yet stopped the expansion of wind power. Britain now has wind turbines with the capacity to generate 1 gigawatt of power offshore, enough for 653,000 homes, the industry group RenewableUK said today.

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Wind power is as cheap as electricity made from burning coal on windy days, and those lower costs drive down power prices. In parts of Texas, some utilities are using wind power because it’s the cheapest form of energy, said Garrad.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aGDZMpv5Y9Vo&pos=13

[natty bumppo 289]

so you like being blown ...

[one...two...tree 2,762]

One solution is more investment in transmission systems to move power from northern Germany wind farms to heavy industry in the south, he said. “Power transmission is the bottleneck.”

....

I just watched a program on California's wind power. The power generated is connected to the Western Grid, which serves 11 states as well as Canada and Mexico.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I just watched a program on California's wind power. The power generated is connected to the Western Grid, which serves 11 states as well as Canada and Mexico.

Frankly, producing more power than we need sounds like a good problem to have (for everybody but the investors of said power companies).

[natty bumppo 289]

Frankly, producing more power than we need sounds like a good problem to have (for everybody but the investors of said power companies).

what do have against making a profit?

maybe your 401k needs to lose money ....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Frankly, producing more power than we need sounds like a good problem to have (for everybody but the investors of said power companies).

That's why public utilities, IMO, are the way to go.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

That's why public utilities, IMO, are the way to go.

I agree.

Some would rather create artificial energy shortages (along the lines of the brownouts in California, thanks to profit gouging by Enron) if it means corporations make money, than actually have people in general pay less for energy than they are now.

I imagine these are the same people (can these soulless cretins really be called 'people'?) who would rather protect UHC profits than sick people.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Frankly, producing more power than we need sounds like a good problem to have (for everybody but the investors of said power companies).

If you can find a way to store all the excess energy, which is, unfortunately, a draw back for both wind and solar, requiring some sort of back-up energy source. Some sort of potential energy storage is probably the answer, like flywheels, for instance.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I agree.

Some would rather create artificial energy shortages (along the lines of the brownouts in California, thanks to profit gouging by Enron) if it means corporations make money, than actually have people in general pay less for energy than they are now.

I imagine these are the same people (can these soulless cretins really be called 'people'?) who would rather protect UHC profits than sick people.

Prop 16 in California is a fine example:

(from California’s Prop 16 is Worst Measure on June Ballot)

Prop 16 – a thinly veiled power grab by PG&E to shut down competition to keeps its monopoly. As more California cities consider providing their own energy through Community Choice Aggregation (CCA), PG&E feels threatened that consumers will finally have a choice. Prop 16 would require that local governments get a two-thirds vote of the electorate before entering into CCA agreements – efforts that PG&E will surely throw millions into defeating. Ironically, Prop 16 only needs a bare majority to pass – to mandate a two-thirds threshold before consumers can quit PG&E. And while CCA efforts would then face impossible odds at prevailing, it’s not like PG&E needs two-thirds approval before it becomes your energy provider. Just like health insurance companies fear the “public option” because it would keep them honest, PG&E is bankrolling the Prop 16 campaign to block competition. And with an expected conservative voter turnout in June, Prop 16 could very well pass.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If you can find a way to store all the excess energy ...

Yes. Of course, having excess problem is a nice "problem" to have in an era of depleting fossil fuels.

Here's what they're doing in Scandinavia.

In Scandinavia, Danish wind power is used to pump water into Norwegian and Swedish reservoirs and later released to drive hydroelectric plants when the wind is not blowing.

...with an expected conservative voter turnout in June, Prop 16 could very well pass.

That would be disappointing. Is there polling data on this?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Here's what they're doing in Scandinavia.

In Scandinavia, Danish wind power is used to pump water into Norwegian and Swedish reservoirs and later released to drive hydroelectric plants when the wind is not blowing.

They could do better than this in Australia. They're much smarter than the rest of the world. Hell, just the hot air that BY spews could power NY city.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That would be disappointing. Is there polling data on this?

I haven't seen any. These ballot measures are so ridiculous now. Every time we go to the local grocery store or to a dept. store, there is someone trying to collect signatures for at least one measure, and most often the spiel their giving is not very accurate. When they ask me if I'm a registered voter, I just shake my head 'no' and keep walking now.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

When they ask me if I'm a registered voter, I just shake my head 'no' and keep walking now.

what you should be doing is wasting their time!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

what you should be doing is wasting their time!

I've thought about confronting some of them, but I need to work on my approach.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I've thought about confronting some of them, but I need to work on my approach.

I wouldn't confront them. Just act interested and waste their time.