Turkish girl, 16, 'buried alive by her father because she had friendships with boys'

[Sofiyya 1,687]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,916898,00.html

[_Simpson_ 250]

The killings in the US were honor killings, but were called passion killings here. They are indeed analygous and no joke at all. Perhaps you are too young to remember lively American debates over whether a husband could be charged with raping his wife, or killing her for believing she had extramarital sex, but they did occur, based on actual controversial cases. This is still a patriarchial nation, and, yes, these were debates about Christians. If non-Muslims like you believe they have the right to judge, then prepare to be judged. You don't hold the exclusive to set terms for the discussion.

I was never calling these matters a joke, I was calling the comparison a joke. I just dont think its a fair comparison to the so called honor killings that are taking place today. One guy killed his daughter because she was raped, there for dishonored the family, truly sick. I know this isnt just a Islam problem but the matter of the fact is that it mostly happens in Islam needs to be addressed.

I recall the wife rape debates and from what I recall about the passion killings the debate was that the sentences should not be as stiff considering the state of mind he was in.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.ph...unishing-wives/

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I was never calling these matters a joke, I was calling the comparison a joke. I just dont think its a fair comparison to the so called honor killings that are taking place today. One guy killed his daughter because she was raped, there for dishonored the family, truly sick. I know this isnt just a Islam problem but the matter of the fact is that it mostly happens in Islam needs to be addressed.

I recall the wife rape debates and from what I recall about the passion killings the debate was that the sentences should not be as stiff considering the state of mind he was in.

No, it doesn't happen mostly in Islam because Islam doesn't allow it. That's why Muslims take offense when the actions of individuals are alluded to be condoned by Islam, thereby tainting ALL Muslims in a way that sick acts by individual Christians are not alluded to be condoned by Christianity. You know that Christianity doesn't sanction murder, although selected passages could be cherry picked to make that appear to be so. Islam, appearing to br foreign and presented by media resources as a less than honorable faith, is not given that pass, so murder by Judeo-Christian folks are glossed over as morbidly normal and unavoidable, while killings by those suspected to be even nominally Muslim are considered to be more heinous. On what basis?

Muslims are second only to Catholics in the number of adherents to the faith. When Catholics kill, does that concern you as much? If not, why not?

[_Simpson_ 250]

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.ph...unishing-wives/

A good read, thank you. I didnt know some of what was mentioned in the article. Like waiting until 1974 to change the laws on murdering your wives. Though these things were legal on the books the 'unwritten law' was enforced. People weren't allowed to get away with this

[_Simpson_ 250]

No, it doesn't happen mostly in Islam because Islam doesn't allow it. That's why Muslims take offense when the actions of individuals are alluded to be condoned by Islam, thereby tainting ALL Muslims in a way that sick acts by individual Christians are not alluded to be condoned by Christianity. You know that Christianity doesn't sanction murder, although selected passages could be cherry picked to make that appear to be so. Islam, appearing to br foreign and presented by media resources as a less than honorable faith, is not given that pass, so murder by Judeo-Christian folks are glossed over as morbidly normal and unavoidable, while killings by those suspected to be even nominally Muslim are considered to be more heinous. On what basis?

Muslims are second only to Catholics in the number of adherents to the faith. When Catholics kill, does that concern you as much? If not, why not?

I really do believe thats its not all Muslims or that Islam condones the behavior. Most of these cases are coming out of Islam and one has to ask why, I will be honest here, I think alot of it has to do with the Koran, I am no expert by no means but I have read alot of the Koran and I got to say with out some sort of direction the conclusions these terrorist come up with is not a far stretch. I think the same of the bible and realize that it has caused a lot of bloodshed in our history, that story in the old testament where the guy falls asleep and his daughter has sex with him, I mean come on. I think what has happened with Christianity is that they have watered down the bible so that they could make sense of it. I am not religious and I think that the Bible and the Koran are nothing more than writings by men.

I am just as concerned with murders in the name of Christianity but you have to admit that in this day and age Islam has a huge problem with extremists and on a much bigger scale.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Not misremembering. Most likely, you are unaware that this is a fact.

Based on your responses, it does indeed appear that I was not aware... However I did suspect, if there was any truth behind your comment you would be talking about the Deep South. It is hardly fair to call it acceptable common practice in the US.

I did find the about section of your 'punishment' article very interesting though:

Confronting Islam

More than two years before the attacks of September 11, Chronicles published a warning. “Islam and the West,” laid bare the history, growth, and geopolitical aims of Islam. Since then, Chronicles has covered this conflict, exposing the alarming number and motives of Islamic schools in America’s heartland, the naiveté with which Americans accept Islamic proselytizing, and the grave security risk posed by our porous borders.

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/index.php/about/

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Based on your responses, it does indeed appear that I was not aware... However I did suspect, if there was any truth behind your comment you would be talking about the Deep South. It is hardly fair to call it acceptable common practice in the US.

I did find the about section of your 'punishment' article very interesting though:

Passion killings and the tendency for the law to overlook them was not limited to the South. However, even if they were, the South is still part of the US, geographically, politically and culturally. As for the schools, the pov of the observer would need to be considered, and I know nothing more about than I do about the schools.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I spent some time on the link you posted and two references jumped out immediately - the defense of Western Christian culture and isolationist, nationalist Pat Buchanan, leading to a considerable bias against anything not seen as western or Christian. Islam, on any level, would raise that bias.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I really do believe thats its not all Muslims or that Islam condones the behavior. Most of these cases are coming out of Islam and one has to ask why, I will be honest here, I think alot of it has to do with the Koran, I am no expert by no means but I have read alot of the Koran and I got to say with out some sort of direction the conclusions these terrorist come up with is not a far stretch. I think the same of the bible and realize that it has caused a lot of bloodshed in our history, that story in the old testament where the guy falls asleep and his daughter has sex with him, I mean come on. I think what has happened with Christianity is that they have watered down the bible so that they could make sense of it. I am not religious and I think that the Bible and the Koran are nothing more than writings by men.

I am just as concerned with murders in the name of Christianity but you have to admit that in this day and age Islam has a huge problem with extremists and on a much bigger scale.

Islam's problem, if it has one, is rooted in people who don't know anything about it, and that includes Muslim extremists and unknowing western critics. They feed off of each other, and are, IMO, two sides of the same coin.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Islam's problem, if it has one, is rooted in people who don't know anything about it, and that includes Muslim extremists and unknowing western critics. They feed off of each other, and are, IMO, two sides of the same coin.

I really do believe thats its not all Muslims or that Islam condones the behavior. Most of these cases are coming out of Islam and one has to ask why, I will be honest here, I think alot of it has to do with the Koran,

case in point. "i believe that it's not all muslims, or islam condoning it, but rather has a lot to do with the quran"

because he thinks the two are what, completely separate entities? islam IS the quran. the quran IS islam. having this conversation with someone who does not even know this, is rather like this picture isn't it?

[_Simpson_ 250]

case in point. "i believe that it's not all muslims, or islam condoning it, but rather has a lot to do with the quran"

because he thinks the two are what, completely separate entities? islam IS the quran. the quran IS islam. having this conversation with someone who does not even know this, is rather like this picture isn't it?

And here we have another person that doesnt want to have a honest discussion about the problems facing Islam. You did not address the points I was making

[Nasturtium 500]

case in point. "i believe that it's not all muslims, or islam condoning it, but rather has a lot to do with the quran"

because he thinks the two are what, completely separate entities? islam IS the quran. the quran IS islam. having this conversation with someone who does not even know this, is rather like this picture isn't it?

And here we have another person that doesnt want to have a honest discussion about the problems facing Islam. You did not address the points I was making

Not really... because if your basic premise is false, then there is no reason to argue with the points built off of that. I believe that is the message.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Not really... because if your basic premise is false, then there is no reason to argue with the points built off of that. I believe that is the message.

My premise was not false, go back and read,he assumes that I think they are different. Simply not true and here is my last paragraph in that same thread he made that assumption -

I am just as concerned with murders in the name of Christianity but you have to admit that in this day and age Islam has a huge problem with extremists and on a much bigger scale

.

the section I put in bold is proof I know they are one in the same and lets pretend I didnt know the difference, it is still not a false premise so you are wrong and why cant you address the issues I am trying to make instead of trying to attack the messenger. Also if you read everything I have said about this topic you would know that his assumption is false.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Islam's problem, if it has one, is rooted in people who don't know anything about it, and that includes Muslim extremists and unknowing western critics. They feed off of each other, and are, IMO, two sides of the same coin.

Not sure there is really a valid comparison. I have not heard of a single critic of Islam strapping on explosive underwear in the name of killing those who follow Allah.