4 killed when Israel bombs U.N. post

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

back to the subject of the post............

it seems that the Israeli army may have a hearing problem????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

don't any of the Israeli sympathizers try and defend this murderous scum army and the terrorist acts it carries out, it was deliberate (like the targeting of the ambulances) and it was pre-meditated.............FACT

At least they don't shoot defenseless electricians 7 times in the head at close range,

which is more than I can say for the murderous scum London (anti-)Terror Police.

When that story broke a lot of people here were justifying the police action. Nearly a year later - it emerges the circumstances that led to this man being placed under suspicion were circumstantial at best and that the officers involved in the shooting may well have criminal charges filed against them.

Fear and blind panic doesn't justify the hysterical actions of badly trained police officers blowing someone away based on little more than unsubstantiated suspicion.

[mawilson 2,133]

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

Paul,

These are isolated incidents which are not necessarily representative of the Israeli army,

just like the underground shooting in London is not representative of London's

Metropolitan Police (which is why I gave it to you as an example.)

If you paint everyone with the same brush, you should have no problems with me doing

the same thing, referring to the police as "murderous scum".

[jordanianprincess 0]

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

Paul,

These are isolated incidents which are not necessarily representative of the Israeli army,

just like the underground shooting in London is not representative of London's

Metropolitan Police (which is why I gave it to you as an example.)

If you paint everyone with the same brush, you should have no problems with me doing

the same thing, referring to the police as "murderous scum".

What a concept

[mawilson 2,133]

and that the officers involved in the shooting may well have criminal charges filed against them.

Dream on man, no-one's having any charges filed against them. They got away

with murder, cover-up and all. At least the IDF doesn't cover things up -- when

they kill civilians, they say "yes, we killed N civilians, sorry".

[mawilson 2,133]

I am starting to agree with you

Now don't give up on us, soldier!

[jordanianprincess 0]

I am starting to agree with you

Now don't give up on us, soldier!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

There are always two sides to each story. Don't bother attacking the source just because it's

Israeli -- you weren't there and didn't see what happened with your own eyes.

You weren't there either. So your point is.... ???

Also, a report in the Israeli daily "Yediot Aharonot" entitled "The video of the killing: Was the girl alone?" stated that the video tape from the event revealed a Palestinian man about 50 meters from the girl, walking away from the scene toward the houses of Rafah. "Captain R"'s lawyer claimed it was a militant, who had probably sent the girl to the "No man's land" as a decoy or bait (hebrew link)

Ooooh a Palestinian man was "about 50 meters from the girl." Well of course he must be a terrorist then. (Never mind that it’s fairly easy to be only 50 meters away from someone in Gaza, considering it’s one of the most densely populated places on earth. And never mind that he was also “walking away from the scene, just as the little girl was.)

But there’s one nagging problem with this disturbing attempt to gloss over the murder of a child -- the soldier didn’t shoot at the “suspicious” man. He shot the 13-year-old.

It’s not surprising that you can find some Israelis willing to cheer on such barbarity and depravity against innocent Palestinian children, just as you find some people here on VJ trying to somehow justify the senseless slaughter of Lebanese children. At least one Likudnik has gone on record recommending that the IDF soldier in question get a medal for “wiping out a terrorist.” (Doesn’t seem to matter that she wasn’t a terrorist at all.) And the State of Israel itself actually rewarded the soldier with 80,000 shekels (about $20,000 at the time) for his “ordeal,” plus paid for his legal fees, and gave him a promotion, to boot.

However, not all Israelis are quite so willing to applaud the cold-blooded killing of a child. In fact, it was an outrage to many. A Ha’aretz editorial addressing this incident, along with several other IDF atrocities, called it “the end of innocence.” Even the right-wing Jerusalem Post (not exactly one to be hyper-critical of the IDF) denounced such appalling incidents as "in a real sense, handing the terrorists a victory.”

"Widespread public dismay at the incidents shows they don't reflect Israeli values," said Michel Bar Zohar, a former Knesset member and author of "Facing a Cruel Mirror: Israel's Moment of Truth."

So many Israelis have a rather different view of these acts than you do.

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

Paul,

These are isolated incidents which are not necessarily representative of the Israeli army,

just like the underground shooting in London is not representative of London's

Metropolitan Police (which is why I gave it to you as an example.)

If you paint everyone with the same brush, you should have no problems with me doing

the same thing, referring to the police as "murderous scum".

Unfortunately they are not "isolated incidents," but all too common.

Remarkably, the IDF soldier who shot peace activist Tom Hurndall was sentenced to 8 years in prison (7 years for manslaughter, plus an additional 1 year for obstruction of justice.) Hurndall was escorting children away from gunfire when an IDF sniper with telescopic sight fired at him from an Israeli army watchtower.

This is the harshest sentence that has been given to any soldier convicted of any violent action over the last few years.

It's one rare conviction in what has become a pattern of excusing the most despicable of acts by Israeli soldiers.

In June 2005, the judge advocate general’s office announced that it had opened only 131 criminal investigations into the unlawful death and injury of Palestinians at the hands of the Israel Defense Forces since the current intifada began in September 2000. During that same period, outside any combat situation, Israeli soldiers killed at least 1,722 Palestinians – more than one-third of whom were children – and injured thousands more, according to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. But since September 2000, the judge advocate general’s office has announced only 28 indictments and seven convictions of Israeli soldiers on charges related to unlawful killing or injury.

“The Israeli military’s failure to conduct effective investigations into civilian killings has fostered impunity in its ranks,” said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Increasing the number of investigations is a step in the right direction and must continue, but the ultimate test is whether they bring wrongdoers to justice.”

On January 23, Israeli soldiers shot a 13-year-old Palestinian boy in the back as he walked along a West Bank road reserved for Jewish settlers. The boy, Munadel Abu Aalia, from the nearby village of El-Mughayer (near Ramallah), died the same day. After first telling the press that the boy and his friends were planning to throw stones at settler cars, Israeli military officials then told journalists that the boys were planting an explosive device.

The Israel Defense Forces’ allegation that the boy posed a threat should not preempt a criminal investigation since media accounts suggest that the incident occurred outside the context of any exchange of fire, he was shot in the back, he reportedly was far from any conceivable target when he was shot, and the incident occurred in broad daylight. The soldiers did not fire warning shots or attempt to question or arrest the boys first.

In a second incident, soldiers patrolling Israel’s border with the Gaza Strip on January 26 shot dead a 9-year-old Palestinian girl on the other side, not far from her home in Khan Younis. Gaza-based human rights organizations investigating the case found that Israeli forces had opened indiscriminate fire on Aya al-Astal without warning when they saw something moving near the border.

Afterwards, the Israeli military contacted Palestinian security officials in Gaza to announce that their “soldiers shot and hit a terrorist.” The girl’s mother told the press, however, that her daughter was small, unveiled and should have been easily identifiable as a child. Her father said that she was mentally disabled and had become lost after wandering from the house. According to the girl’s family and paramedics, the girl was shot multiple times in the neck, leg, arm and stomach. The Israel Defense Forces have not accounted for the mistaken identity or their rules of engagement at the border, warranting an immediate criminal investigation.

As noted above, both of these shooting deaths occurred outside the context of any armed conflict or exchange of fire. In such situations, even if the victim is engaged in criminal conduct, Israeli security forces should have been operating according to international law enforcement standards, which are governed by the U.N. Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials and the U.N. Code of Conduct for Law Enforcement Officials.

According to these international standards for policing, security forces should resort to the intentional use of lethal force only when it is “strictly unavoidable in order to protect life.” As noted above, eyewitness accounts and the pattern of lethal injuries on the two children indicate a serious breach of these standards.

While the Israel Defense Forces immediately announced their intention to open a probe into the death of the boy, the military’s spokesperson was unable to tell Human Rights Watch whether they had opened a similar probe in the case of the girl. However, the media reported that an internal probe was launched in the girl’s case, and that the judge advocate general’s office had already found no fault in the judgment used by the unit commander and found that the shooting was carried out according to open fire regulations.

However, the military’s spokesperson told Human Rights Watch that the inquiry into the boy’s death was an internal army probe, or “operational debrief.” In a report published in June, Human Rights Watch documented how these debriefs fall far short of international standards for criminal investigations, and fail to establish the truth and bring perpetrators to justice.

First, the debriefs rely solely on the testimony of the implicated soldiers and are often carried out by the soldiers’ peers in the same unit. International standards dictate that investigators must be effectively independent from those implicated. The debriefs do not seek or consider testimony from victims or non-military witnesses, and do not attempt to reconcile discrepancies between the soldiers’ accounts and evidence presented by eyewitnesses, medical authorities or video. In the past, these debriefs have seriously delayed and impeded any criminal investigation.

In addition, the Israeli government has failed to provide an effective remedy including fair and adequate compensation to victims of grave human rights violations. As Human Rights Watch outlined in a letter to members of the Israeli Knesset, the State Liability Law as amended by the Knesset in July now makes it extremely difficult for Palestinians injured by Israeli security forces to sue for compensation in Israeli courts.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/02/08/isrlpa12646.htm

Hebrew version @ http://hrw.org/hebrew/pdfs/israel_jag0206_pr.pdf

[sharky 2]

"Remarkably, the IDF soldier who shot peace activist Tom Hurndall was sentenced to 8 years in prison (7 years for manslaughter, plus an additional 1 year for obstruction of justice.) Hurndall was escorting children away from gunfire when an IDF sniper with telescopic sight fired at him from an Israeli army watchtower."

wife of mahmoud.... the only reason that soldier got ANY jail sentence was because Tom Hurndall's father is a high powered lawyer in the UK, if it wasn't for him putting pressure on the UK government, nothing would have happened.

and to the poster who said that the IDF doesn't try to cover up it's wrong doings........ IT DOES, but then again it has committed so many acts that have broken the Geneva convention it probably stopped caring a long time ago..........

funny how all the Israeli sympathisers have gone quiet all of a sudden?, perhaps they are trying to think about how they can justify all the facts that have been recently posted about IDF attrocities eh??

[mawilson 2,133]

You weren't there either. So your point is.... ???

My point is that the Guardian article you posted and the Arutz Sheva article I posted

are two sides of the same story, and neither source is more authoritative than the other.

Just because the Guardian is a UK paper doesn't make it any more unbiased or "right".

funny how all the Israeli sympathisers have gone quiet all of a sudden?, perhaps they are trying to think about how they can justify all the facts that have been recently posted about IDF attrocities eh??

What atrocities? A man goes into a war zone, gets himself in the middle of a fire fight, and

gets killed. What, did he think that because he's British, he's invincible?

[Identity 0]

and that the officers involved in the shooting may well have criminal charges filed against them.

At least the IDF doesn't cover things up -- when

they kill civilians, they say "yes, we killed N civilians, sorry".

Just like in an American cartoon, right? In reality, you don't see those civilians living and breathing again in the next scene.

[Ban Hammer 14,154]

people die in a war zone. imagine that. happened in the past, will happen in the future.

[mmmbop1976 1]

um, yes there were hezbollah nearby, and that is per the email sent by one of the 4 killed. and that is how hezbollah wants it. they purposely carry out their attacks near civilians and u.n. post knowing fukk well that these people may die in the counter-attack so they can get it on the news and play on world sympathy. truly a cowardly act by the hezbollah terrorists.

[*Robert* 2]

Lets face it just about every Arab and Muslim would love to see that State of Israel bombed into oblivion.

Why?!! For what purpose?!!

Do you speak for every Arab and Muslim?

[Ric Flair 0]

I think I speak for every Muslim and Arab when I say Ric Flair is greatest champion of all time.

Woooooooo!

This is proof that the world can get along. Flair will unite the planet.

22 what? 22 time world champion and future Nobel Peace Prize winner, The Nature Boy Ric Flair.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I think I speak for every Muslim and Arab when I say Ric Flair is greatest champion of all time.

Woooooooo!

This is proof that the world can get along. Flair will unite the planet.

22 what? 22 time world champion and future Nobel Peace Prize winner, The Nature Boy Ric Flair.

ROFLMAOOOOOOOO