4 killed when Israel bombs U.N. post

[mawilson 2,133]

back to the subject of the post............

it seems that the Israeli army may have a hearing problem????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

don't any of the Israeli sympathizers try and defend this murderous scum army and the terrorist acts it carries out, it was deliberate (like the targeting of the ambulances) and it was pre-meditated.............FACT

At least they don't shoot defenseless electricians 7 times in the head at close range,

which is more than I can say for the murderous scum London (anti-)Terror Police.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

back to the subject of the post............

it seems that the Israeli army may have a hearing problem????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

don't any of the Israeli sympathizers try and defend this murderous scum army and the terrorist acts it carries out, it was deliberate (like the targeting of the ambulances) and it was pre-meditated.............FACT

At least they don't shoot defenseless electricians 7 times in the head at close range,

which is more than I can say for the murderous scum London (anti-)Terror Police.

Yes yes yes. The angels of the IDF are far more morally superior.

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who put 17 bullets into a Palestinian schoolgirl

· Officer ignored warnings that teenager was terrified

· Defence says 'confirming the kill' standard practice

Chris McGreal in Jerusalem

Wednesday November 16, 2005

The Guardian

An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.

After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.

"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."

The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.

Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.

Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."

The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.

A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.

In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.

Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".

"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.

Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.

On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.

The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.

Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."

The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.

Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.

The transcript

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

[Risto 0]

For all tragedies In Lebanon and Israel are responsible hezbulah and their stupid, hypocritical supporters.

[*Robert* 2]

Poor Israel... Everyone is always picking on them...

[sharky 2]

back to the subject of the post............

it seems that the Israeli army may have a hearing problem????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

don't any of the Israeli sympathizers try and defend this murderous scum army and the terrorist acts it carries out, it was deliberate (like the targeting of the ambulances) and it was pre-meditated.............FACT

At least they don't shoot defenseless electricians 7 times in the head at close range,

which is more than I can say for the murderous scum London (anti-)Terror Police.

It's nice to see that you are keeping to the subject..............

You can't defend the actions of the IDF so you try and make comparisons with other attrocities on the other side of the world........ very poor argument indeed.......... read wife of mahmood's last post about the little girl being killed..........

there are many many more attrocities that the IDF have committed (I won't list them here but I'm sure that they would equal the so-called islamic terrorist murders) and no-one can defend those attrocities here!

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes yes yes. The angels of the IDF are far more morally superior.

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who put 17 bullets into a Palestinian schoolgirl

...

There are always two sides to each story. Don't bother attacking the source just because it's

Israeli -- you weren't there and didn't see what happened with your own eyes.

Accuser of ‘Confirmed Kill’ IDF Captain: We Lied

Arutz Sheva February 7, 2005

Captain “R.” is on his way to aquittal following a major breakthrough in the trial of the IDF commander accused of intentionally killing an Arab girl.

The prosecution’s key witness admitted Sunday to having lied during the investigation.

Two soldiers in R.’s unit had testified that he carried out a point-blank “confirmed-kill” of 13-year-old Arab girl Iman al Hams, who had entered a closed military zone adjacent to the Girit IDF position last October. R. testified that though he and his soldiers had opened fire on someone they assumed to be a terrorist based on intelligence information and the fact that the girl threw a bag toward them - he denied confirming the kill at close range.

Three weeks ago, one of the accusing soldiers admitted that he had not actually seen the shooting, contradicting previous testimony he had given. Now, Lieutenant S., who had been on lookout duty during the incident and subsequently accused R. of shooting the girl at close range admitted during his cross-examination by defense attorney Elad Eisenberg, that he and his fellow soldiers had been lying all along.

Eisenberg asked S. whether it was accurate that following R.’s suspension, S. had bragged to his fellow soldiers, saying, “We managed to get rid of the company commander.”

S. answered: “Not exactly. I said it humorously. Most of the soldiers in the company didn’t care about the girl who was killed. Many people did it in order … to get rid of the company commander.”

Eisenberg said: “Did what?”

S. answered: “Lied during the investigations.”

Eisenberg then accused S. of lying to investigators when he told them that he saw R. confirm the kill by firing two individual bullets, followed by a burst of fire toward the girl.

Repeating the question of whether or not he told the truth, S. said his words were not “intentionally,” false, then argued that they were not meant “maliciously” and finally admitted: “I didn’t exactly lie … I said an untruth.”

Following the development, the defense requested that the prosecution withdraw the indictment altogether, but the request has been declined so far.

The judge, Lt.-Col. Aharon Mishnayot ordered R., who has been confined to his army base - released, that his weapons be returned to him, and that he be reinstated into the Givati Brigade. “It is an inarguable fact that the dramatic development with regard to the testimony of Lieutenant S., who admitted flat-out that he did not tell the truth during the military police investigation, significantly undermines at least the value of this witness’s testimony,” Mishnayot said.

R. was in good spirits upon his release. “I have missed my job and my unit, and am happy that in the end justice is being brought to light - what you saw today speaks for itself.” R.

Though the story was reported widely in the world press, including headlines such as “IDF Captain Shoots 13-year-old 20 Times,” the fact that the facts of the case have been increasingly challenged has been virtually ignored. Already in October, IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Yaalon told the cabinet that the girl had been dispatched by terrorists as a decoy in order to draw out soldiers and turn them into targets for terrorist snipers. Yaalon also explained that the girl was in a closed military area. In addition, the girl reportedly threw a bag at the soldiers - a suspicious move, under the circumstances, even though the bag was later found to contain only schoolbooks and no explosives.

Shortly after the incident, one of the soldiers involved told Maariv: “For several weeks now, we have been in a state of high alert due to warnings of infiltration attempts. Only two weeks ago, three of our friends were killed in Morag. With death suddenly arriving at our doorstep, we were extremely tense. We knew the terrorists were coming, we just weren’t sure when. On the day in question, we spotted a child just over 100 meters from our post. At first we thought she was a terrorist, not a girl; we were sure the moment had arrived, that which we had been talking about all along. We immediately knew what we had to do: to open fire. We all opened fire.

“After we fired, the platoon commander went out to make sure she was dead. He fired only two bullets at her from a relatively distant point, fearing she was wearing a bomb belt. He then headed back to the outpost, but suddenly turned around and fired a long burst. I saw where the body was, and in which direction he fired. It wasn’t even close [to the girl]. He fired towards Rafiah, in response to a burst of fire…

“The soldiers who turned to the media tried to frame him because he was a tough commander and often handed out harsh punishments. The veteran soldiers were angry with him. I also was tempted to say he had done it, but that’s not the way. It would be a despicable thing to do,” the soldier said.

A second soldier in the platoon also told Maariv that the soldiers who accused their commander had ulterior motives.

The story was originally reported by Israel Radio defense affairs correspondent Carmella Menashe. Menashe, famous for her exclusive stories exposing misconduct within the IDF, noted at the time that her source- who later became the lead witness who now admits to lying about the incident - had called her many times previously complaining that he did not like his commander but that his complaints were not substantive enough to report on or affect the Captain’s removal.

S., who is the most veteran member of his company, previously admitted that he had personal enmity toward R. over R.’s active campaign to increase discipline in the company since he assumed command and his quest to promote equality between newer and more veteran soldiers.

Also, a report in the Israeli daily "Yediot Aharonot" entitled "The video of the killing: Was the girl alone?" stated that the video tape from the event revealed a Palestinian man about 50 meters from the girl, walking away from the scene toward the houses of Rafah. "Captain R"'s lawyer claimed it was a militant, who had probably sent the girl to the "No man's land" as a decoy or bait (hebrew link)

[jordanianprincess 0]

There are always two sides to each story. Don't bother attacking the source just because it's

Israeli -- you weren't there and didn't see what happened with your own eyes.

Honestly is there really 2 sides????? Seems like everyone is only interested in hearing one side.

Edited July 26, 2006 by jordanianprincess

[sharky 2]

Yes yes yes. The angels of the IDF are far more morally superior.

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who put 17 bullets into a Palestinian schoolgirl

...

There are always two sides to each story. Don't bother attacking the source just because it's

Israeli -- you weren't there and didn't see what happened with your own eyes.

Accuser of ‘Confirmed Kill’ IDF Captain: We Lied

Arutz Sheva February 7, 2005

Captain “R.” is on his way to aquittal following a major breakthrough in the trial of the IDF commander accused of intentionally killing an Arab girl.

The prosecution’s key witness admitted Sunday to having lied during the investigation.

Two soldiers in R.’s unit had testified that he carried out a point-blank “confirmed-kill” of 13-year-old Arab girl Iman al Hams, who had entered a closed military zone adjacent to the Girit IDF position last October. R. testified that though he and his soldiers had opened fire on someone they assumed to be a terrorist based on intelligence information and the fact that the girl threw a bag toward them - he denied confirming the kill at close range.

Three weeks ago, one of the accusing soldiers admitted that he had not actually seen the shooting, contradicting previous testimony he had given. Now, Lieutenant S., who had been on lookout duty during the incident and subsequently accused R. of shooting the girl at close range admitted during his cross-examination by defense attorney Elad Eisenberg, that he and his fellow soldiers had been lying all along.

Eisenberg asked S. whether it was accurate that following R.’s suspension, S. had bragged to his fellow soldiers, saying, “We managed to get rid of the company commander.”

S. answered: “Not exactly. I said it humorously. Most of the soldiers in the company didn’t care about the girl who was killed. Many people did it in order … to get rid of the company commander.”

Eisenberg said: “Did what?”

S. answered: “Lied during the investigations.”

Eisenberg then accused S. of lying to investigators when he told them that he saw R. confirm the kill by firing two individual bullets, followed by a burst of fire toward the girl.

Repeating the question of whether or not he told the truth, S. said his words were not “intentionally,” false, then argued that they were not meant “maliciously” and finally admitted: “I didn’t exactly lie … I said an untruth.”

Following the development, the defense requested that the prosecution withdraw the indictment altogether, but the request has been declined so far.

The judge, Lt.-Col. Aharon Mishnayot ordered R., who has been confined to his army base - released, that his weapons be returned to him, and that he be reinstated into the Givati Brigade. “It is an inarguable fact that the dramatic development with regard to the testimony of Lieutenant S., who admitted flat-out that he did not tell the truth during the military police investigation, significantly undermines at least the value of this witness’s testimony,” Mishnayot said.

R. was in good spirits upon his release. “I have missed my job and my unit, and am happy that in the end justice is being brought to light - what you saw today speaks for itself.” R.

Though the story was reported widely in the world press, including headlines such as “IDF Captain Shoots 13-year-old 20 Times,” the fact that the facts of the case have been increasingly challenged has been virtually ignored. Already in October, IDF Chief of Staff Lt.-Gen. Moshe Yaalon told the cabinet that the girl had been dispatched by terrorists as a decoy in order to draw out soldiers and turn them into targets for terrorist snipers. Yaalon also explained that the girl was in a closed military area. In addition, the girl reportedly threw a bag at the soldiers - a suspicious move, under the circumstances, even though the bag was later found to contain only schoolbooks and no explosives.

Shortly after the incident, one of the soldiers involved told Maariv: “For several weeks now, we have been in a state of high alert due to warnings of infiltration attempts. Only two weeks ago, three of our friends were killed in Morag. With death suddenly arriving at our doorstep, we were extremely tense. We knew the terrorists were coming, we just weren’t sure when. On the day in question, we spotted a child just over 100 meters from our post. At first we thought she was a terrorist, not a girl; we were sure the moment had arrived, that which we had been talking about all along. We immediately knew what we had to do: to open fire. We all opened fire.

“After we fired, the platoon commander went out to make sure she was dead. He fired only two bullets at her from a relatively distant point, fearing she was wearing a bomb belt. He then headed back to the outpost, but suddenly turned around and fired a long burst. I saw where the body was, and in which direction he fired. It wasn’t even close [to the girl]. He fired towards Rafiah, in response to a burst of fire…

“The soldiers who turned to the media tried to frame him because he was a tough commander and often handed out harsh punishments. The veteran soldiers were angry with him. I also was tempted to say he had done it, but that’s not the way. It would be a despicable thing to do,” the soldier said.

A second soldier in the platoon also told Maariv that the soldiers who accused their commander had ulterior motives.

The story was originally reported by Israel Radio defense affairs correspondent Carmella Menashe. Menashe, famous for her exclusive stories exposing misconduct within the IDF, noted at the time that her source- who later became the lead witness who now admits to lying about the incident - had called her many times previously complaining that he did not like his commander but that his complaints were not substantive enough to report on or affect the Captain’s removal.

S., who is the most veteran member of his company, previously admitted that he had personal enmity toward R. over R.’s active campaign to increase discipline in the company since he assumed command and his quest to promote equality between newer and more veteran soldiers.

Also, a report in the Israeli daily "Yediot Aharonot" entitled "The video of the killing: Was the girl alone?" stated that the video tape from the event revealed a Palestinian man about 50 meters from the girl, walking away from the scene toward the houses of Rafah. "Captain R"'s lawyer claimed it was a militant, who had probably sent the girl to the "No man's land" as a decoy or bait (hebrew link)

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

so what's your reply to these?, perhaps they were carrying rifles behind them, or were close to supposed militants who had been airbrushed on photos by the IDF at a later date.....

JordianPrincess and others, I don't know why you waste your time with these people........they are brainwashed in to thinking that poor old Israel is the victims and the nasty old Palestians and Lebonnese are the evil ones.........

you should go and do something far more productive

[jordanianprincess 0]

JordianPrincess and others, I don't know why you waste your time with these people........they are brainwashed in to thinking that poor old Israel is the victims and the nasty old Palestians and Lebonnese are the evil ones.........

you should go and do something far more productive

I am starting to agree with you

[*Robert* 2]

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

so what's your reply to these?, perhaps they were carrying rifles behind them, or were close to supposed militants who had been airbrushed on photos by the IDF at a later date.....

What's your point? Someone isn't playing war fair? Guess they better update the rule book so everyone can be civil when they kill each other.

Maybe we need even smarter weapons... ones that just kill the super bad guys, and no innocent bystanders...

Ah... a world of unicorns, fairy's, and flowers... Hey, what's that Pink Elephant doing there?!

[sharky 2]

it seriously worries me to think that there are more people out there that don't know the facts about what goes on in the middle east, at least being British I can rely on fair and accurate coverage from the BBC news, they actually report the facts......... as opposed to the American propaganda networks.... FOX etc., who just vomit out lies and distortion.......... nearly as bad as the Israeli press agencies eh?

OH GIVE ME A BREAK, you just don't want to face the facts do you??? I have personally seen film footage of the IDF shooting a British journalist through the head who was waving a white flag above his head, seen a British peacekeeper shot in the head collecting a child, and seen an American peacekeeper run over and killed by an IDF bulldozer (who could clearly see her).........

so what's your reply to these?, perhaps they were carrying rifles behind them, or were close to supposed militants who had been airbrushed on photos by the IDF at a later date.....

What's your point? Someone isn't playing war fair? Guess they better update the rule book so everyone can be civil when they kill each other.

Maybe we need even smarter weapons... ones that just kill the super bad guys, and no innocent bystanders...

Ah... a world of unicorns, fairy's, and flowers... Hey, what's that Pink Elephant doing there?!

what a very intelligent way of justifying those actions.............

[Ban Hammer 14,164]

it seriously worries me to think that there are more people out there that don't know the facts about what goes on in the middle east, at least being British I can rely on fair and accurate coverage from the BBC news, they actually report the facts......... as opposed to the American propaganda networks.... FOX etc., who just vomit out lies and distortion.......... nearly as bad as the Israeli press agencies eh?

funny how not too long ago we were discussing how bbc is slanted too

[jordanianprincess 0]

it seriously worries me to think that there are more people out there that don't know the facts about what goes on in the middle east, at least being British I can rely on fair and accurate coverage from the BBC news, they actually report the facts......... as opposed to the American propaganda networks.... FOX etc., who just vomit out lies and distortion.......... nearly as bad as the Israeli press agencies eh?

WAIT A SECOND!!!!!! You mean CNN, Fox, and MSNBC are not good sources of unbiased informaton??? You don't say

[*Robert* 2]

"War is Hell"

[jordanianprincess 0]

it seriously worries me to think that there are more people out there that don't know the facts about what goes on in the middle east, at least being British I can rely on fair and accurate coverage from the BBC news, they actually report the facts......... as opposed to the American propaganda networks.... FOX etc., who just vomit out lies and distortion.......... nearly as bad as the Israeli press agencies eh?

funny how not too long ago we were discussing how bbc is slanted too

"War is Hell"

Not disagreeing with you on that at all