Confused Please help

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Posts not pertaining to the issue at hand have been removed. Please refrain from judgemental observations and stay on topic. Thank you.

This thread is good evidence for the need of keyboard control and registration. rarely have I witnessed so much bad advice in one place.

There are some 35 countries + Canada (of 180) that are in the visa waiver program. Russia is not one of them.

Canada is not part of the visa waiver program.

No kidding? That is why I said "35 + Canada" Canada has a separate treaty agreement which allows its citizens even easier access to the USA than VWP counties but I would be remiss not to mention it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This whole process is soooooooooooooo confusing. oh well at least now I know that we will need a co-sponsor. His child support is deducted from his paycheck every 2 weeks so it would be his total income minus child support for 2 kids and then plus child support for 1 kid....talk about confusing. Anyway if I have any question can I message you Rings?

No. I am sorry you have been deluged with inaccurate information. As I stated earlier and correctly, they do not deduct anything from his gross income. In addition he can add the child support he receives to his income from work. In order to support his family of 5 (including you) he gets full faith and credit for ALL his income. USCIS nor the consulates "deduct" anything. ALL income calculations are based on GROSS income before any taxes or deductions.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't know if I should attach this on the end of this thread, but it's related.

I am at the borderline of qualifying (not enough income) for both of my fiance's children. The other one is 18, and she has said she doesn't want to come to US, but she may change her mind. I already qualify for my fiance and No. 2 kid, with my present income.

I am going to start receiving from US gov. , an annuity beginning in January, 2010, which would qualify me for both of her children.

I have documentation proving that this perpetual annuity has been approved and showing the first payment scheduled for January (unless Washington politicians bankrupt the US before then). I am wondering if they will consider this projected income as "income" to help prove I can support everyone?

The 18 year old will not be valid especially if he/she does not enter the country and if you do not file for the I-130 on that childs behalf. The Annuity qualifies as "income" and you should report it if possible because that money coming is is still valid income to support the family. You must have legal documentation to prove that it is income though. (USCIS likes papers that say stuff especially when it comes to money) but you must be receiving this income at the time of your spouses arrival into America or they will not consider it.

This whole process is soooooooooooooo confusing. oh well at least now I know that we will need a co-sponsor. His child support is deducted from his paycheck every 2 weeks so it would be his total income minus child support for 2 kids and then plus child support for 1 kid....talk about confusing. Anyway if I have any question can I message you Rings?

You can always message me. They will look at his deductions because it is not income he can provide to "support" you.. it is income, just not income that's his (if you get what I mean)

Horsesqueeze. Please get your facts straight.

Also I would caution against anyone giving or obtaining advice in PMs. While I receive dozens of PMs asking advice I also answer those questions in the OPs public forum thread. Taking advice such as this in PMs can be very detrimental as it does not offer the questioner an opportunity to have bad advice corrected as public forums do. I will put my answers right out there with everyone's and if I am wrong you can say so. It is to the benefit of the member asking the question. If i am wrong and you call me on it, I will retract my answer and clarify it for the OP.

The consulate doe not consider "deductions" The money deducted is used to support his family at any rate. If they deducted the income they would also have to deduct the responsibility, it is preposterous.

[Rings 10]

If his paychecks are deducted for his child support through the child support enforcement agency then they will know that he pays the child support because he has to show them his paycheck stubs to prove what he makes. If he is supporting these children they WILL find out so you should not lie about it. Be honest because if you don't they will question it. Most men that pay child support are recorded through Child Support Enforcement in most states. He must show them his paycheck stubs which would show the deduction. They will question this if you are not honest. He needs to calculate the support based on ALL of the people he supports despite if they are with him full time or not. If he is not within the range on income requirements he MUST have a back up sponsor. If he takes care of 5 people and he can prove that through LEGAL documentation (by getting the report from the child support enforcement agency) then he CAN claim that he supports 5 people which would bring him into the bracket for supporting 5 people.

They are going to look at his TOTAL income AFTER deductions

Not correct. They use GROSS total income from line 22 of the income tax return and GROSS income from his checkstubs. Child support is not a deduction for tax purposes, nor is it income for tax purposes. Child support does not "show" in any way on a tax return. USCIS and the consulates WILL give him credit for the income. They DO NOT deductt for the child support. (or any other expenses, teaxes, etc) IF they did then he would not have to count the children in his family size as they would already be "paid for" He gets FULL credit in his income calculation for all money earned (inclduing child support) and gets FULL responsibility for all children in the family.

What I meant is that they still have to "report" the child support as the deductions shows on his current pay check stubs. They still see that expense as a family of 5.

[Rings 10]

I don't know if I should attach this on the end of this thread, but it's related.

I am at the borderline of qualifying (not enough income) for both of my fiance's children. The other one is 18, and she has said she doesn't want to come to US, but she may change her mind. I already qualify for my fiance and No. 2 kid, with my present income.

I am going to start receiving from US gov. , an annuity beginning in January, 2010, which would qualify me for both of her children.

I have documentation proving that this perpetual annuity has been approved and showing the first payment scheduled for January (unless Washington politicians bankrupt the US before then). I am wondering if they will consider this projected income as "income" to help prove I can support everyone?

The 18 year old will not be valid especially if he/she does not enter the country and if you do not file for the I-130 on that childs behalf. The Annuity qualifies as "income" and you should report it if possible because that money coming is is still valid income to support the family. You must have legal documentation to prove that it is income though. (USCIS likes papers that say stuff especially when it comes to money) but you must be receiving this income at the time of your spouses arrival into America or they will not consider it.

This whole process is soooooooooooooo confusing. oh well at least now I know that we will need a co-sponsor. His child support is deducted from his paycheck every 2 weeks so it would be his total income minus child support for 2 kids and then plus child support for 1 kid....talk about confusing. Anyway if I have any question can I message you Rings?

You can always message me. They will look at his deductions because it is not income he can provide to "support" you.. it is income, just not income that's his (if you get what I mean)

Horsesqueeze. Please get your facts straight.

Also I would caution against anyone giving or obtaining advice in PMs. While I receive dozens of PMs asking advice I also answer those questions in the OPs public forum thread. Taking advice such as this in PMs can be very detrimental as it does not offer the questioner an opportunity to have bad advice corrected as public forums do. I will put my answers right out there with everyone's and if I am wrong you can say so. It is to the benefit of the member asking the question. If i am wrong and you call me on it, I will retract my answer and clarify it for the OP.

The consulate doe not consider "deductions" The money deducted is used to support his family at any rate. If they deducted the income they would also have to deduct the responsibility, it is preposterous.

I was advising that they be honest because if he supports a family of 5 and states that he supports a family of 3 then they are going to question it if the deductions of support that are showing on his paychecks stubs which he has to supply. I am not sure if perhaps the way I typed it came out wrong I will read the thread again when I get to work. I was simply telling them to claim the whole family he cares for...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If his paychecks are deducted for his child support through the child support enforcement agency then they will know that he pays the child support because he has to show them his paycheck stubs to prove what he makes. If he is supporting these children they WILL find out so you should not lie about it. Be honest because if you don't they will question it. Most men that pay child support are recorded through Child Support Enforcement in most states. He must show them his paycheck stubs which would show the deduction. They will question this if you are not honest. He needs to calculate the support based on ALL of the people he supports despite if they are with him full time or not. If he is not within the range on income requirements he MUST have a back up sponsor. If he takes care of 5 people and he can prove that through LEGAL documentation (by getting the report from the child support enforcement agency) then he CAN claim that he supports 5 people which would bring him into the bracket for supporting 5 people.

They are going to look at his TOTAL income AFTER deductions

Not correct. They use GROSS total income from line 22 of the income tax return and GROSS income from his checkstubs. Child support is not a deduction for tax purposes, nor is it income for tax purposes. Child support does not "show" in any way on a tax return. USCIS and the consulates WILL give him credit for the income. They DO NOT deductt for the child support. (or any other expenses, teaxes, etc) IF they did then he would not have to count the children in his family size as they would already be "paid for" He gets FULL credit in his income calculation for all money earned (inclduing child support) and gets FULL responsibility for all children in the family.

What I meant is that they still have to "report" the child support as the deductions shows on his current pay check stubs. They still see that expense as a family of 5.

He doesn't "report" anything. He submits an I-134 with a fmaily size of 5. He submits evidence supporting his income. Checks stubs are not even required. He can provide a recent employment letter in lieu of checkstubs. Tax deductions for federl, state, medicare and SS tax also show on check stubs. And what?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't know if I should attach this on the end of this thread, but it's related.

I am at the borderline of qualifying (not enough income) for both of my fiance's children. The other one is 18, and she has said she doesn't want to come to US, but she may change her mind. I already qualify for my fiance and No. 2 kid, with my present income.

I am going to start receiving from US gov. , an annuity beginning in January, 2010, which would qualify me for both of her children.

I have documentation proving that this perpetual annuity has been approved and showing the first payment scheduled for January (unless Washington politicians bankrupt the US before then). I am wondering if they will consider this projected income as "income" to help prove I can support everyone?

The 18 year old will not be valid especially if he/she does not enter the country and if you do not file for the I-130 on that childs behalf. The Annuity qualifies as "income" and you should report it if possible because that money coming is is still valid income to support the family. You must have legal documentation to prove that it is income though. (USCIS likes papers that say stuff especially when it comes to money) but you must be receiving this income at the time of your spouses arrival into America or they will not consider it.

This whole process is soooooooooooooo confusing. oh well at least now I know that we will need a co-sponsor. His child support is deducted from his paycheck every 2 weeks so it would be his total income minus child support for 2 kids and then plus child support for 1 kid....talk about confusing. Anyway if I have any question can I message you Rings?

You can always message me. They will look at his deductions because it is not income he can provide to "support" you.. it is income, just not income that's his (if you get what I mean)

Horsesqueeze. Please get your facts straight.

Also I would caution against anyone giving or obtaining advice in PMs. While I receive dozens of PMs asking advice I also answer those questions in the OPs public forum thread. Taking advice such as this in PMs can be very detrimental as it does not offer the questioner an opportunity to have bad advice corrected as public forums do. I will put my answers right out there with everyone's and if I am wrong you can say so. It is to the benefit of the member asking the question. If i am wrong and you call me on it, I will retract my answer and clarify it for the OP.

The consulate doe not consider "deductions" The money deducted is used to support his family at any rate. If they deducted the income they would also have to deduct the responsibility, it is preposterous.

I was advising that they be honest because if he supports a family of 5 and states that he supports a family of 3 then they are going to question it if the deductions of support that are showing on his paychecks stubs which he has to supply. I am not sure if perhaps the way I typed it came out wrong I will read the thread again when I get to work. I was simply telling them to claim the whole family he cares for...

Advising to be honest is good advice. Check stubs would not be a problem for him. Child support deductions to not list the number of children and nothing can be determined from the amount deducted as it varies by state law, and even possibly an arrearage being paid. There is no way the consulate can determine his correct family size from looking at check stubs and child support deductions. It is even possible he is paying an arrearage for child already over 18 that would NOT be a dependent, just a debt to be paid.

Consulates do not consider deductions at any rate.

Your posts clearly stated such deductions would not be considered his income as it "is not available to support the family" This is not correct.

Being HONEST is crucial, the penalty far outweighs the benefit.

The OP and her fiance need to consider this for their calculations...

1. His GROSS annual income PLUS

2. His annual child support received (and documented)

3. Any other income sources he may have

Add that together and if it does not meet the needs for a family of 5 then you need a co-sponsor.

The co-sponsor will have to have enough income to...

1. Support him/herself

2. Support their own children and/or spouse (if the co-sponsors spouse works and has income, the spouse does not count)

3. Support the petitioners children (3)

4. Support the intending immigrant

[Rings 10]

Ok first I want to say I am sorry I was not trying to confuse anyone or give incorrect information. I will be more careful on how I phrase things.

I was trying to explain that the spouse has to show the income he is being paid as part of his total income and also show that the child support he pays out that is deducted automatically from his paycheck supports that he cares for additional children that are not listed on his current tax forms because he cannot claim them. He still “supports” these children and therefore can claim them as additional members, which will help him in the poverty guidelines. I was trying to say that he can obtain the documents online from the Child Support Enforcement Agency and that he should show them that information so that the amount of people he supports has legitimate paperwork to back it up.

A divorced parent's dependent children are members of his or her household, even if they live part of the time with the former spouse. A parent almost always has a legal obligation to support his or her children. Although only one of the parents may be legally entitled to claim the child as a dependent on tax returns (1040), the child must be considered as part of both parents' households for purposes of the Affidavit of Support, unless a parent can show that he or she no longer has a legal obligation to support the child.

After calculating household income, the sponsor must determine

whether his or her total income level meets or exceeds the poverty

guidelines, based on the applicable household size, including family

members residing with the sponsor, dependents, and any immigrants

sponsored in the Form I-864 being filed or in a previous Form I-864

where the obliagion has not terminated. There may be instances in which

an Immigration or Consular Officer may question the sponsor's ability

to maintain income based on the sponsor's current employment situation,

on the Federal income tax returns for the 3 most recent tax years, or

on receipt of welfare benefits.

Immigration or Consular Officer's determination of insufficient

income and/or assets. Notwithstanding paragraphs ©(2 )(iii ) © and

©(2 )(iv ) (A ) and (B ) of this section, an Immigration Officer or

Consular Officer may determine the income and/or assets of the sponsor

or a joint sponsor to be insufficient if the Immigration Officer or

Consular Officer determines, based on the sponsor's or joint sponsor's

employment situation, income for the previous 3 years, assets, or

receipt of welfare benefits, that the sponsor or joint sponsor cannot

maintain his or her income at the required level.

(vi) Verification of employment, income and assets. The Government

may pursue verification of any information provided on or with Form I-

864, including information on employment, income, or assets, with the

employer, financial or other institutions, the Internal Revenue

Service, or the Social Security Administration.

(vii) Effect of fraud or material concealment or misrepresentation.

If the Consular Officer or Immigration Officer finds that the sponsor

or joint sponsor has concealed or misrepresented facts concerning

income, or household size, or any other material fact, the Consular

Officer or Immigration Officer shall conclude that the affidavit of

support is not sufficient to establish that the sponsored immigrant is

not likely to become a public charge, and the sponsor or joint sponsor

may be liable for criminal prosecution under the laws of the United

States.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Rings

[Rings 10]

Also I would like to say that I am sorry about the comment about coming into America, but the OP was from Canada and so I had Canada in my brain while I was posting. I should have looked closer to the poster of that question so for that I appologize.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok first I want to say I am sorry I was not trying to confuse anyone or give incorrect information. I will be more careful on how I phrase things.

I was trying to explain that the spouse has to show the income he is being paid as part of his total income and also show that the child support he pays out that is deducted automatically from his paycheck supports that he cares for additional children that are not listed on his current tax forms because he cannot claim them. He still “supports” these children and therefore can claim them as additional members, which will help him in the poverty guidelines. I was trying to say that he can obtain the documents online from the Child Support Enforcement Agency and that he should show them that information so that the amount of people he supports has legitimate paperwork to back it up.

A divorced parent's dependent children are members of his or her household, even if they live part of the time with the former spouse. A parent almost always has a legal obligation to support his or her children. Although only one of the parents may be legally entitled to claim the child as a dependent on tax returns (1040), the child must be considered as part of both parents' households for purposes of the Affidavit of Support, unless a parent can show that he or she no longer has a legal obligation to support the child.

After calculating household income, the sponsor must determine

whether his or her total income level meets or exceeds the poverty

guidelines, based on the applicable household size, including family

members residing with the sponsor, dependents, and any immigrants

sponsored in the Form I-864 being filed or in a previous Form I-864

where the obliagion has not terminated. There may be instances in which

an Immigration or Consular Officer may question the sponsor's ability

to maintain income based on the sponsor's current employment situation,

on the Federal income tax returns for the 3 most recent tax years, or

on receipt of welfare benefits.

Immigration or Consular Officer's determination of insufficient

income and/or assets. Notwithstanding paragraphs ©(2 )(iii ) © and

©(2 )(iv ) (A ) and (B ) of this section, an Immigration Officer or

Consular Officer may determine the income and/or assets of the sponsor

or a joint sponsor to be insufficient if the Immigration Officer or

Consular Officer determines, based on the sponsor's or joint sponsor's

employment situation, income for the previous 3 years, assets, or

receipt of welfare benefits, that the sponsor or joint sponsor cannot

maintain his or her income at the required level.

(vi) Verification of employment, income and assets. The Government

may pursue verification of any information provided on or with Form I-

864, including information on employment, income, or assets, with the

employer, financial or other institutions, the Internal Revenue

Service, or the Social Security Administration.

(vii) Effect of fraud or material concealment or misrepresentation.

If the Consular Officer or Immigration Officer finds that the sponsor

or joint sponsor has concealed or misrepresented facts concerning

income, or household size, or any other material fact, the Consular

Officer or Immigration Officer shall conclude that the affidavit of

support is not sufficient to establish that the sponsored immigrant is

not likely to become a public charge, and the sponsor or joint sponsor

may be liable for criminal prosecution under the laws of the United

States.

Thank you. After 53 posts the OP finally has confirmation of what I said in the first post.

[Sak 0]

LOL!!! I got the point. Question, Am I able to use one of my family members to co-sponsor or does it have to be only someone my fiance knows?

[Inky 1,110]

LOL!!! I got the point. Question, Am I able to use one of my family members to co-sponsor or does it have to be only someone my fiance knows?

if he is petitioning for you to move to america i beleive he has to find the co-sponser and it has to be american, it cant be your own family member.

if you are sponsering him then you need to find a co-sponser.

if im wrong im sure someone will correct it lol,

as an example if my husband had to get a co-sponser to bring me here, to america, he would have had to get a family member or friend to co-sponsor me. I could not ask my family member to do it.

and when i say it has to be american the person co-sponsering needs to be living in america, or the respective country you are moving to be with your fiance. Cant be sponsering from another country.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Inky

[Sak 0]

Hi,

Sorry I didnt make my question clear. I have family members living in the USA and they are citizens so can they be used as a sponsor if my fiance is unable to find one?

[Inky 1,110]

Hi,

Sorry I didnt make my question clear. I have family members living in the USA and they are citizens so can they be used as a sponsor if my fiance is unable to find one?

I have family living here as well all are amercian citizens american born. As per my understanding if they co-sponser you, as i was told, it could create problems cus its a direct family member. I could be wrong but USCIS said when I called them that having direct family co-sponcer is a whole other can of worms when you are entering on a K-1.

Edited October 7, 2009 by Inky

[dancehallquana 5]

Hello everyone. I have a question and I would like to know the proper procedure for this. My boyfriend/fiancee has 3 kids in total. One lives with him and he gets child support for her and he claims her on his income tax returns. His 2 boys live with there mother and he pays child support for both of them and he does not claim them on his income tax returns. My question is, when we fill out the affidavit of support does he need to put that he also supports his two boys even though he does not claim them on his income tax returns? At that point will he be responsible for just a household of 3 or 5 people???Anyone, Please if you can help me with this, I would really appreciate it. Thank You

I will try to phrase this delicately. You are asking if he can lie and get away with it. He has 3 children which are dependent on him and for which he supports or pays support. His family size, with you, is 5. Just because someone is not claimed on a tax return due to a court order or separation agreement and the tax code does not make them "not dependent". Claiming them on a tax return makes it impossible not to claim them on an I-134. He SHOULD claim all the children on the I-134, to do otherwise is fraudulent and falsifying material facts. That is all there is to it. You know it, I know it and he knows it. Being found to be falsifying material facts at any point makes you subject to visa denial or AOS denial, deportation and permanent ban from the US...plus possible criminal charges for your fiance. They do not deport US citizens, the put them in prison. The USCIS and the consulates are not the IRS and visa applications are not tax returns. It is a mistake to think that because something is listed one way on a tax return it would be listed the same for a visa application...it may be, but it also may not be. He is prevented from claiming them on his tax return because the IRS only allows ONE single person to claim an individual as dependent. That is tax code. Immigration rules require you disclose ALL people dependent on you.

That said, he CAN claim the child support he receives as income provided he has a court order and proof of payments, even though child support is not shown on his tax return.

gary and alla.. the OP may not have known just like I DIDNT before reading this..THANKFULLY i have custody of my children and wouldn't have to worry about it.. but if i didn't.. I WOULD not know that u can count a child that is not living w/ u as part of ur household, it is a valid question.. why the suspicion??? , but im sure ya'll have cleared up this misunderstanding by now..