Democratic Congressman Describes Republican Health Care Plan: "Die Quickly"

[alienlovechild 75]

No, they pay on health care about half of what we pay. In real numbers: $8K per capita in the US, $3-5K per capita elsewhere in the industrialized world. 16%+ of GDP here, 8-10% of GDP elsewhere in the industrialized world. Any way you slice it, they pay less. And patient satisfaction as well as overall outcomes are, for the most part, better elsewhere in the developed world. Look it up. The OECD keeps some pretty good stats.

Patient satisfaction? How can there any comparison if there's no alternatives for how many years? If you don't like a national healthcare system what do you do? Leave the country for treatment?

Still haven't seen anything on how the system will be defiicit neutral other having another tax with a seperate fund but that's what they said about Social Security as well.

The best that can be said is if have no healthcare now and need it, it might but help for for everyone else it's going to another burden especially in the beginning. The talk about choice and competition are buzzwords as the public sector will squeeze out the private sector and only the well-off will have a choice.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The only people who get a better deal in the US, are the wealthy.

The rich always get a better deal. That is why they are wealthy.

[Heracles 417]

The only people who get a better deal in the US, are the wealthy.

The rich always get a better deal. That is why they are wealthy.

Time that changes. The wealthy play many like certain posters in this forum as fools and have them doing their dirty work, with the false belief they too could become a wealthy.

The rest of the developed world has smartened up to that and nipped it in the butt. Don't worry ranger, your money is safe as the segment of the middle class defending the wealthy, are too stupid to realize they are being played for fools; yes, all while they are poor.

[chri'stina 190]

Their models work better and more efficiently than ours. And all of their models are based on more govenment involvement not less and yet they're more efficient and patient oriented than our broken and purely profit oriented system. It's neither a secret nor some big mystery. It doesn't rquire intimate knowledge of the various systems out there. It only requires the ability and willingness to look at available data with an open mind. And even that seems too much to ask.

Another poster who's never heard of Medicaid, Medicare or any or the state counterparts but truly believes we can cover everyone with better quality and be deficit neutral while having no idea of the size of the program nor how the revenue will be raised.

Another poster who rather doesn't look at the data. It's not that hard: Every other industrialized country does it - provide more for less. How can they do it and we can't? Are they all smarter and better than America?

Don't they have higher taxes to cover it? Can we really get a better thing without any cost? That would be too good to be true. If actually true, awesome. I don't know though. I personally don't have my head in the sand even if someone wants to think I do.

I don't oppose something just because I'm not a democrat or didn't vote for Obama. Joseph & Ana does not represent every republican or person who is not sure about the plans going on. He is an easy target for people here. A perfect combo of far right wing ideas + obnoxious posting style.

You pay for it as a tax or a separate premium, it doesn't matter, you still pay for it in the end. When you include cost of US health insurance premiums in the tax burden calculation, most people pay more in the US than they would in the UK.

The only people who get a better deal in the US, are the wealthy.

One issue I have is that I have many relatives who do not have health insurance right now. They don't pay a premium. However, living that way especially middle aged and older is very risky in case of a major problem. But they can't foresee adding another monthly cost. They aren't poor, but also don't have lots of extra money. I would like to see them get coverage because of how risky not having it is. But then they would have a new bill to pay every month. I am torn really, as you can see. So are they, they would like coverage but aren't sure about the cost they would have.

Also, my husband for instance is very concerned about the nation's deficit and how everything will impact it. He reads a lot about this and watches CSPAN often these days, he is very informed but he is way more against this whole idea than I am. I think "hey maybe it won't be a bad idea" while he feels it's a very bad idea, financially speaking for this nation. So I hear all the sides and it's not as easy as a decision as some make it out to be.

If what Mr. Big Dog says is true, then of course that sounds good. I am just skeptical about all this.

Edited October 2, 2009 by chri'stina

[luckytxn 2,265]

"If you get sick, America, the Republican health care plan is this: die quickly," Florida Democrat Alan Grayson stated during a speech to the House of Representatives last night. In the speech, Grayson pulled out a series of signs describing the Republican plan as "don't get sick," then proposed that if you do get sick, the party would like you to die quickly. Unsurprisingly, Grayson's remarks have not been well-received by Republicans, who have compared him to Joe Wilson and demanded that he apologize. Minority Whip Eric Cantor, R-Va., immediately posted the video on YouTube in the hopes of mobilizing opposition, and Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., has announced plans to introduce a "resolution of disapproval" similar to the one passed against Wilson to condemn Grayson's behavior. According to Politico, Grayson will distract himself from the fracas this evening by attending the premiere of Michael Moore's new movie, Capitalism: A Love Story. So far, he has refused to apologize.

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2231055/entry/4

At last someone grew some testicles and said exactly what those loonies are more or less saying.. don't get sick and if you do then die because it'll cost us money. Even if your insured, if your not it'll still have to cost us money so die quickly because money is more important that your life.

From my experience here in America most I've met here at least are republican quite a lot of them are just the average person.. the majority of them are are clueless as to the issues and what healthcare actually means or could mean to them.. if they lost their job, took a large pay cut..etc I've been shocked to find in a lot of cases they don't know the real difference between left wing and right wing. They pickup sound bites from TV or their right wing church or the internet and repeat.. monkey see monkey do! I try to avoid politics if I can, had enough of that back home but some days I have to admit I want to scream at some of them for honestly being stupid. People struggling to pay their bills, paying out the ####### for medications that can be had in most places in Europe for under $20 paying out cash they don't have anymore.. Yet they oppose the very thing that may ease their own burden because the TV said so!

Quite a lot have no clue as to how the outside world operates, none! They worry so much about "big government" that they've become slaves without knowing it to "Big Business" and you can't cast any votes with those people! Big government is already here in it's many wasteful forms. If government was streamlined and run fast and effectively from the top down with the private sector properly regulated you wouldn't have to worry about paying for healthcare because the money saved from the waste would likely cover that and more.

Quite - for the most part I agree.

You would. Anything anti-american and you're right on board!

I ask the above quoted: Why don't you go back to your gloriously smart country, and leave all of us stupid Americans alone? After all, if its so wonderful you'd still be living there.

No they like it here but want their Socialism also to be brought here. they are used to the government doing for them what they are supposed to be doing themselves as we believe in. If they could have their Socialism and live here then they are happy but other than that they are the biggest whiners there are.

[Heracles 417]

No they like it here but want their Socialism also to be brought here. they are used to the government doing for them what they are supposed to be doing themselves as we believe in. If they could have their Socialism and live here then they are happy but other than that they are the biggest whiners there are.

I was watching Black Gold. Those Texans are um interesting workers. It was interesting to see one of the guys severely injured yet he refused to take time off so that he did not get fired.

This guy would have have a reasonable amount of medical leave and an employer wouldn't dare fire him back in AUS. But carry on telling me how bad other systems are.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Another poster who rather doesn't look at the data. It's not that hard: Every other industrialized country does it - provide more for less. How can they do it and we can't? Are they all smarter and better than America?

Or they are doing it at our expense.

Oh, please.

Why do you think a pill costs $2 in Canada and $50 here? Because the governments in Canada (and Europe) dictate how much a company can charge for a pill.

The governments can't dictate prices. The manufacturer has the option not to sell to these governments if they offer prices which don't cover cost and some profit margin. The very fact that the pharma industry is selling to the governments of Canada (and Europe) is evidence that rather than us subsidizing their meds, we're just being royally ripped off because our government works for these big businesses rather than the people.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No, they pay on health care about half of what we pay. In real numbers: $8K per capita in the US, $3-5K per capita elsewhere in the industrialized world. 16%+ of GDP here, 8-10% of GDP elsewhere in the industrialized world. Any way you slice it, they pay less. And patient satisfaction as well as overall outcomes are, for the most part, better elsewhere in the developed world. Look it up. The OECD keeps some pretty good stats.

Patient satisfaction? How can there any comparison if there's no alternatives for how many years? If you don't like a national healthcare system what do you do? Leave the country for treatment?

Dude, as I said earlier, all it takes is the ability and willingness to look at available data with an open mind. Funny as it may seem to you, the patients most satisfied with their health care - overall as well as in terms of service received and access to care - are those that have government run health insurance and little, if any, alternatives to that - our seniors on medicare. I would like to be able to buy a health insurance plan that gives me these higher satisfaction levels - likely at a better cost. If you don't want it, fine, then don't opt for it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

One issue I have is that I have many relatives who do not have health insurance right now. They don't pay a premium. However, living that way especially middle aged and older is very risky in case of a major problem. But they can't foresee adding another monthly cost. They aren't poor, but also don't have lots of extra money. I would like to see them get coverage because of how risky not having it is. But then they would have a new bill to pay every month. I am torn really, as you can see. So are they, they would like coverage but aren't sure about the cost they would have.

Also, my husband for instance is very concerned about the nation's deficit and how everything will impact it. He reads a lot about this and watches CSPAN often these days, he is very informed but he is way more against this whole idea than I am. I think "hey maybe it won't be a bad idea" while he feels it's a very bad idea, financially speaking for this nation. So I hear all the sides and it's not as easy as a decision as some make it out to be.

If what Mr. Big Dog says is true, then of course that sounds good. I am just skeptical about all this.

There problem with your uninsured relatives is that they are taking a free ride and all of us that carry insurance are paying for it. How are they getting a free ride? Well, if any one of them gets seriously sick, they will go to the ER and they will be treated and have a good chance of coming out of the care with bills that they aren't able to pay. Everyone else then pays their bills - and "everyone else" has a hard enough time affording the premiums they pay.

As for the deficit - again, the reform effort is to be paid for. Think about it this way, for a second: The trillion dollar price tag over the next decade sounds huge. But really, it isn't all that much when you consider that we already spend 2.5 trillion annually on health care with a rapidly rising trend. In 10 years, if we do nothing, the annual expense is estimated to be in excess of 4 trillion dollars. So, over the next 10 years, we are set to spend in the range of 35 trillion dollars on health care as it is. That's if we do nothing. Now you tell me how 1 trillion dollars is supposedly some big deal in this picture. You tell me that we can't gain 1 trillion dollars worth of efficiencies out of a 35 trillion dollar system that everyone knows and acknowledges is very, very inefficient. We're talking about less than 3% of what the system is already going to cost us if we do nothing. This is what people ought to be concerned and frightened about - doing nothing is going to bankrupt this country and each and every individual in it.

As for what I've been saying in terms of more efficient health care systems - it's all public information. Have at it. Look it up. Kill that skepticism with the available facts and data.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Mr. Big Dog like to spoon feed republicans. But most likely that spoon will be wiped away by them. They won't even listen to why Creationism doesn't even belong in science.

I have to agree with Mr. Big Dog.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Niels Bohr

[Joseph & Ana 0]

Why don't you go back to your gloriously smart country, and leave all of us stupid Americans alone?

You stupid Americans are a dying breed. The majority of America sees right through the scare nonsense, has spoken and wants an effective and cost-efficient health care system. You stupid Americans might not be capable of processing that fact but it's a fact all the same.

Keep repeating it.. maybe you'll begin to actually believe it as opposed to spouting things you know to be untrue. The public option is dead. Pelosi's all but admitted it, Obama has all but admitted it.

Looks like the stupid Americans want freedom rather than socialism, and they have won. There will be no public health insurance option. You pinko's like to twist things and say that because Americans want (what is common sense) effective and cost efficient health-insurance, that means they want the government to take it over. Well, you're wrong, and the option is dead.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why don't you go back to your gloriously smart country, and leave all of us stupid Americans alone?

You stupid Americans are a dying breed. The majority of America sees right through the scare nonsense, has spoken and wants an effective and cost-efficient health care system. You stupid Americans might not be capable of processing that fact but it's a fact all the same.

Keep repeating it.. maybe you'll begin to actually believe it as opposed to spouting things you know to be untrue. The public option is dead. Pelosi's all but admitted it, Obama has all but admitted it.

Looks like the stupid Americans want freedom rather than socialism, and they have won. There will be no public health insurance option. You pinko's like to twist things and say that because Americans want (what is common sense) effective and cost efficient health-insurance, that means they want the government to take it over. Well, you're wrong, and the option is dead.

The public option ain't dead until Congress either passes a bill without it or doen't pass a bill at all. Thus far, no bill has passed either chamber of Congress and it is hence a bit early to speculate about the demise of the freedom of choice that Americans want. Americans want freedom. Freedom means an end to the enslavement to the private insurance industry. There is broad public support for the freedom of choice between private and public insurance plans out there. Congress would be ill advised to ignore that broad public support.

As they say, "totgesagte leben länger".

[Heracles 417]

Looks like the stupid Americans want freedom rather than socialism, and they have won. There will be no public health insurance option. You pinko's like to twist things and say that because Americans want (what is common sense) effective and cost efficient health-insurance, that means they want the government to take it over. Well, you're wrong, and the option is dead.

Yeah because we don't have freedom in Europe or Aus. Only you guys have it, as apparently it must be patented. Difference is you cannot do whatever you want in most developed countries and disregard the consequences. Hence, why your the one with a Detroit and they're not.

Your repub buds had eight years and they did nothing. So far, they have not put forward any logical proposal apart from slandering a public option, or any other reform for that mater. Fact is that repubs want their buddies to continue to screw America. Nothing else to it. Country first was and is a bunch of bullshit. What's in it for me first is what really counts.

As someone from Detroit, you should know perfectly well that if someone does something right, others tend to copy it. Hence, why GM, Ford and Chrysler are desperately trying to copy Toyota and Honda; who have absolutely kicked their azz. Therefore, why do you think no other developed country uses the American system? Before you answer, remember that the rest of the world is not like the anti-reform Americans. They don't shoot down ideas based on whether it was nationally developed or not; as they're not idiots. Therefore, if the status quo health care option was just so awesome, surely someone would have implemented it by now. To the contrary, it is the laughing stock (butt of jokes) of other developed nations.

You can throw socialism out or deny it all you like. However, it still does not change reality. This mindset is the equivalent of a Chrysler exec actually trying to tell a Toyota exec, that they don't know how to build or sell cars.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Booyah!

[alienlovechild 75]

Dude, as I said earlier, all it takes is the ability and willingness to look at available data with an open mind. Funny as it may seem to you, the patients most satisfied with their health care - overall as well as in terms of service received and access to care - are those that have government run health insurance and little, if any, alternatives to that - our seniors on medicare. I would like to be able to buy a health insurance plan that gives me these higher satisfaction levels - likely at a better cost. If you don't want it, fine, then don't opt for it.

I see. If someone is paying for your healthcare, your patient satisfaction goes up. I'll bet free lunches are more popular, too. So there's no comparison to private vs. public healthcare when the people for more public healthcare don't have a choice anyway and most people are content with their private plans now fully knowing a public alternative exists in various forms. BTW, who cares if Medicare is going broke since it's so successful, right?

You really should do a fact check on your last sentence. I could opt out but I'll pay a fine or go to jail.

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ens...firmation_.html

[rebeccajo 14]

No they like it here but want their Socialism also to be brought here. they are used to the government doing for them what they are supposed to be doing themselves as we believe in. If they could have their Socialism and live here then they are happy but other than that they are the biggest whiners there are.

Do me like a socialist...........