guns allowed in arizona bars starting tomorrow

[Amby 490]

Bartender Randy Shields was serving British brews and Arizona ambers as usual at Shady's bar in east Phoenix when he saw a customer walk in with a hunting knife strapped to his hip.

A disturbing image flashed through his mind — "that knife sliding between my ribs."

The customer willingly turned over the knife while he was in the bar, but Shields still worries about a new Arizona law that goes into effect Wednesday that will allow guns into Arizona bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

Under the law, backed by the National Rifle Association, the 138,350 people with concealed-weapons permits in Arizona will be allowed to bring their guns into bars and restaurants that haven't posted signs banning them.

Those carrying the weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol.

The new law has Shields and other bar owners and workers wondering: What's going to happen when guns are allowed in an atmosphere filled with booze and people with impaired judgment?

"Somebody can pull the trigger, then a bullet comes out, and people get hurt and killed," said Brad Henrich, owner of Shady's, a popular neighborhood bar that sees occasional minor scuffles. "The idea of anyone coming in with guns in a place that serves alcohol just seems ludicrous."

An 8 1/2-by-11-inch sign that says "No Firearms Allowed" and shows a red slash over a gun now hangs next to Henrich's liquor license. If a bar owner does not post such a state-approved sign, people with concealed weapons are allowed in with their guns.

There is no way to track how many of Arizona's 5,800 bars and restaurants that serve alcohol have posted such signs. The Arizona Department of Liquor Licensing and Control has signs available for download on its Web site and doesn't track that figure.

The department has provided 1,300 signs to bar and restaurant owners who went to the department in person or asked to have signs mailed to them.

A similar law took effect in July in Tennessee, with the same reaction from many bar owners who posted signs banning firearms. The NRA says 41 states now allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol.

"I hate to have to put them up," Mark DeSimone, owner of the Hidden House Cocktail Lounge in central Phoenix, said of the signs. "It looks scary. It looks to somebody like, should I go in this place because they obviously have a problem with people bringing weapons in."

DeSimone has signs banning guns next to his liquor license and outside the bar.

He said every bar owner should be concerned about the possible consequences of allowing anyone into a bar with a gun.

"You don't want people to even have a stick," he said. "When I take steak knives out (for customers), I look for the ones that don't have pointy ends."

Taking a gun into a bar banning the weapons would be a misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a fine of up to $500.

But the law includes a partial legal defense. A person would be exempt if the sign banning guns had fallen down, the person wasn't an Arizona resident, or the notice was first posted less than a month earlier.

J.P. Nelson, director of the NRA's western region, said people with concealed-weapons permits have the right to protect themselves by bringing guns into bars and restaurants.

"Bad things happen in bars and restaurants," Nelson said. "People want to carry a gun and if the facility owner doesn't have a problem with it, there shouldn't be a problem. If a person starts drinking and gets in a shootout and kills someone, of course they're subject to criminal prosecution."

Marc Peagler, owner of the Silver Spur Saloon Restaurant in Cave Creek outside Phoenix, said he will allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry in his business, and Silver Spur will be safer because of it.

"It's a deterrent," he said. "In the criminal element, there is some logic that says when people look at a place that they might want to rob, the ones that have big signs up that say 'We do not permit firearms' would be the first target.

"They know there's not going to be anybody in there that can stop them," he said.

Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns — on a belt or holster, for example. Those people still won't be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol under the new law if they're armed.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...mp;type=bondage

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A bar owner would be crazy, CRAZY not to post a sign banning weapons from entering the bar. It'd be a liability nightmare.

[sara..... 371]

normally im all for gun owners as i am one myself but it does not take much intelligence to figure out that guns and alcohol............................. bad choice

sara

[catknit 144]

Wait - it's up to the person carrying a concealed weapon to follow the dictat of a sign - like an honor system of sorts? And they think that will work?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Wait - it's up to the person carrying a concealed weapon to follow the dictat of a sign - like an honor system of sorts? And they think that will work?

Yep. And I'm not sure that a sign posted would absolve the bar owner of any liability if someone decided to ignore the sign. This has got to be one of stupidest laws created in recent years. I'd be furious if I were a bar owner.

[sara..... 371]

unless the bar has metal detectors how are they going to know the person is carrying a weapon? so there for how would they know not to serve that person im sorry this law makes no logical sense at all

i know that sooner or later someone is going to say some people go to bars for some other reason than drinking but thats not going to help the poor person that gets killed or injured from a drunk with a gun

just my opinion

sara

[one...two...tree 2,762]

unless the bar has metal detectors how are they going to know the person is carrying a weapon? so there for how would they know not to serve that person im sorry this law makes no logical sense at all

i know that sooner or later someone is going to say some people go to bars for some other reason than drinking but thats not going to help the poor person that gets killed or injured from a drunk with a gun

just my opinion

sara

Some of them may do their own searches, as some do now.

Maybe some restaurants that cater more towards dining than drinking won't be so worried.

[john & jean 37]

if you don't have one, they will allow you to check one out, library style!!!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Valley bars, eateries get ready for gun-toting patrons

Al McCarthy, owner of Duke's Sports Bar & Grill in Scottsdale, has posted three signs at the entrances to his property to inform patrons that guns are not permitted inside.

by Amy B Wang -

The Arizona Republic

Starting Wednesday, those carrying concealed weapons are allowed to enter Arizona's roughly 5,300 establishments licensed to sell alcohol, as long as they don't drink. If those bar and restaurant owners don't want guns on the property, they must post a sign indicating that they are not allowed.

The law only requires one sign be posted in a "conspicuous" place, near the establishment's liquor license. But Al McCarthy, owner of Duke's Sports Bar & Grill in Scottsdale, put up three signs - one for each entrance to his property - "as soon as the bill passed" nearly three months ago.

"I want to make sure there's no confusion as to where this business stands on the issue," McCarthy said. "I have yet to have a customer to tell me they wish I hadn't put up the sign."

About a thousand official, laminated signs have been requested since they became available in mid-August, according to the Arizona Department of Liquor Licenses and Control, with the average establishment requesting four signs.

Business owners also have been able to download and print their own signs from the department's Web site.

...

"I'm not anti-firearm. I honestly don't think that firearms, drinking and dining are a match," said Don Carson, who has owned Don & Charlie's Steakhouse in Scottsdale for 28 years. "I don't know that I'm looking for a gentleman with a permit for a firearm to defend me against a person who has a firearm illegally, because maybe the person with the legal firearm isn't such a good shot."

Thirty-nine other states have "restaurant

carry" laws that allow guns inside dining establishments.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/aze...gunlaw0929.html

[Amby 490]

I think it's crazy to mix guns and alcohol. This seems a bit silly.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

wow... classy stuff going down in AZ

[sara..... 371]

unless the bar has metal detectors how are they going to know the person is carrying a weapon? so there for how would they know not to serve that person im sorry this law makes no logical sense at all

i know that sooner or later someone is going to say some people go to bars for some other reason than drinking but thats not going to help the poor person that gets killed or injured from a drunk with a gun

just my opinion

sara

Some of them may do their own searches, as some do now.

Maybe some restaurants that cater more towards dining than drinking won't be so worried.

i dont know my mom and i both have concealed weapon permits but its for when we travel or hunting........so im really having a hard time wrapping my mind around this new law for Arizona

sara

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I am scared of sister estadia now

[sara..... 371]

I am scared of sister estadia now

no need that gun is for three legged men

sara

[Dan J 277]

Alcohol + Guns = natural selection