3 Years Minus 90 Days Question

[sqtb 0]

As I understand, I can apply for Naturalization after 3 Years of being married to USC. However, I can also apply for Naturalization 90 days before the 3 Years (so at 2 Years and 9 Months).

I tried to find the exact meaning of this 90 Day allowance, but I'm a little confused. "A Guide to Naturalization" says this on Page 22:

"If you are applying based on 5 years as a Permanent Resident or 3 years as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you

may file for naturalization up to 90 days before you meet the continuous residence requirement. For example, if you are applying

based on 3 years of continuous residence as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you can apply any time after you

have been a Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days."

I have underlined the relevant portions. There are two requirements in The Guide: the "Time as a Permanent Resident" requirement and the "Continuous Resident" requirement. From the underlined portion above, it seems that the 90 Day allowance only applies to the Continuous Resident requirement, and it does not apply to the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement.

So assuming that I meet all the other requirements, when can I actually apply starting from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

Do I need to wait for 3 Years from the date on my Permanent Resident Card (to meet the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement)? Or can I apply after 2 Years and 9 Months from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

I would appreciate if someone who has tried this 90 Day allowance could answer my questions?

Thanks!

[riz 0]

As per my understanding you can apply after 2 Years and 9 Months from the date on my Permanent Resident Card.

Edited September 14, 2009 by riz

[Dakine 26]

As I understand, I can apply for Naturalization after 3 Years of being married to USC. However, I can also apply for Naturalization 90 days before the 3 Years (so at 2 Years and 9 Months).

I tried to find the exact meaning of this 90 Day allowance, but I'm a little confused. "A Guide to Naturalization" says this on Page 22:

"If you are applying based on 5 years as a Permanent Resident or 3 years as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you

may file for naturalization up to 90 days before you meet the continuous residence requirement. For example, if you are applying

based on 3 years of continuous residence as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you can apply any time after you

have been a Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days."

I have underlined the relevant portions. There are two requirements in The Guide: the "Time as a Permanent Resident" requirement and the "Continuous Resident" requirement. From the underlined portion above, it seems that the 90 Day allowance only applies to the Continuous Resident requirement, and it does not apply to the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement.

So assuming that I meet all the other requirements, when can I actually apply starting from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

Do I need to wait for 3 Years from the date on my Permanent Resident Card (to meet the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement)? Or can I apply after 2 Years and 9 Months from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

I would appreciate if someone who has tried this 90 Day allowance could answer my questions?

Thanks!

2 years and 9 months. You must show proof of still having a bonafide marriage.

[NickD 202]

As I understand, I can apply for Naturalization after 3 Years of being married to USC. However, I can also apply for Naturalization 90 days before the 3 Years (so at 2 Years and 9 Months).

I tried to find the exact meaning of this 90 Day allowance, but I'm a little confused. "A Guide to Naturalization" says this on Page 22:

"If you are applying based on 5 years as a Permanent Resident or 3 years as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you

may file for naturalization up to 90 days before you meet the continuous residence requirement. For example, if you are applying

based on 3 years of continuous residence as a Permanent Resident married to a U.S. citizen, you can apply any time after you

have been a Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days."

I have underlined the relevant portions. There are two requirements in The Guide: the "Time as a Permanent Resident" requirement and the "Continuous Resident" requirement. From the underlined portion above, it seems that the 90 Day allowance only applies to the Continuous Resident requirement, and it does not apply to the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement.

So assuming that I meet all the other requirements, when can I actually apply starting from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

Do I need to wait for 3 Years from the date on my Permanent Resident Card (to meet the Time as a Permanent Resident requirement)? Or can I apply after 2 Years and 9 Months from the date on my Permanent Resident Card?

I would appreciate if someone who has tried this 90 Day allowance could answer my questions?

Thanks!

2 years and 9 months. You must show proof of still having a bonafide marriage.

First you find the date of your green card, say it's 11/2/2006, your 3rd anniversary will be 11/2/2009, circle that day on your calendar. Using that day as day one, count back exactly 90 days, that is the day you can date and mail in your application, or even a day or two later. Our day landed on a Sunday, so mailed it in the following Monday, so we sent ours in in 89 days. No telling what kind of harda$$ will open and review your application, and attempting to send it in a day or two early can cost you weeks.

[warlord 72]

First you find the date of your green card, say it's 11/2/2006, your 3rd anniversary will be 11/2/2009, circle that day on your calendar. Using that day as day one, count back exactly 90 days, that is the day you can date and mail in your application, or even a day or two later. Our day landed on a Sunday, so mailed it in the following Monday, so we sent ours in in 89 days. No telling what kind of harda$$ will open and review your application, and attempting to send it in a day or two early can cost you weeks.

Yes it's good to file it between the 85th and 89th day as people have had the N-400 returned for being on the 90th day.

Another thing to remember is that 2 years and 9 months is not the same as 3 years minus 90 days. You need to count back as mentioned from that exact date of your PR status for marriage based...

[sqtb 0]

First you find the date of your green card, say it's 11/2/2006, your 3rd anniversary will be 11/2/2009, circle that day on your calendar. Using that day as day one, count back exactly 90 days, that is the day you can date and mail in your application, or even a day or two later. Our day landed on a Sunday, so mailed it in the following Monday, so we sent ours in in 89 days. No telling what kind of harda$$ will open and review your application, and attempting to send it in a day or two early can cost you weeks.

Yes it's good to file it between the 85th and 89th day as people have had the N-400 returned for being on the 90th day.

Another thing to remember is that 2 years and 9 months is not the same as 3 years minus 90 days. You need to count back as mentioned from that exact date of your PR status for marriage based...

Yes, I realize that 2 year and 9 months is not the same as 3 years minus 90 days. I was planning on sending it on 88th day.

However, like I mentioned above, to me it's not clear that I can send it at 3 years minus 90 days from the date on the Permanent Resident Card.

The Guide and the N-400 instructions both say that the 90 day allowance only applies to the "continuous residence" requirement. To quote the N-400 Instructions:

"...you may apply for naturalization up to 90 days before you meet the "continuous residence" requirement. You must meet all other requirements at the time that you file your application with USCIS."

But the "Time as Permanent Resident" requirement says that I must have my GC for 3 Years, and the Instructions imply that I must meet that requirement.

Has anyone here successfully applied for Naturalization at 3 years minus 90 days? I just don't want to get into trouble if they decide that I was wrong to send the N-400 application before 3 years.

Thanks!

Edited September 14, 2009 by sqtb

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

If you are still married to your spouse that petitioned for you to get your permanent residence, you can apply 90 days before the date your original green card was issued, assuming you didn't leave the country for more than 6 months.

Let's say you left the country a year ago for 7 months, then the clock started ticking again the moment you got back to the US. You would be married for God knows how many years, still to the same spouse, would be a permanent resident for 3 years, but you would not fulfill the requirements of continued residence.

[lucyrich 19]

The Guide and the N-400 instructions both say that the 90 day allowance only applies to the "continuous residence" requirement. To quote the N-400 Instructions:

"...you may apply for naturalization up to 90 days before you meet the "continuous residence" requirement. You must meet all other requirements at the time that you file your application with USCIS."

But the "Time as Permanent Resident" requirement says that I must have my GC for 3 Years, and the Instructions imply that I must meet that requirement.

The "Time as Permanent Resident" requirement is the same as the "continuous residence" requirement. They aren't two different things. It is one thing. You get a 90 day shortcut on that one requirement.

It may be clearer if you look at the law instead of looking at the M-476. Then again, maybe it won't be, but here's the references to the law anyway:

The five year continuous residence requirement comes from INA 316(a). The three year shortcut if married to and living with a US Citizen is in 319(a). The 90 day shortcut to either of these requirements comes from INA 334(a) (note that, in the actual text of the statute, it's phrased as three months, but in 8 CFR 334.2(b) it's 90 days. The USCIS seems to procedurally enforce it as 90 days, but if you wait a few extra days to file, you'll safely avoid any borderline issues).

You can look up the text to each of these references on the USCIS site. Go to the "laws and regulations" page.

Notice that INA 334(a) specifically says it's a shortcut to the requirements of INA 319(a) or 316(a), whichever applies to the particular case. And INA 319(a) specifically says that it's a shortcut to the requirement in INA 316(a).

Also notice that INA 334(a) only allows you to file your application early. The requirement in INA 319(a) or 316(a) still must be met before you can actually complete your naturalization. In the unlikely event the USCIS processes your paperwork very fast, you still can't take the oath of naturalization until you've completed three full years of continuous residence (five years if not married to and living with a US Citizen).

[wannabe_texan 0]

Agree with all the explanations on this thread...

I've just been approved at interview today using the 3 years minus 90 days. I waited a few days into the 90 days before applying as suggested by others here.

[sqtb 0]

Agree with all the explanations on this thread...

I've just been approved at interview today using the 3 years minus 90 days. I waited a few days into the 90 days before applying as suggested by others here.

Awesome...thanks everyone for their explanations -- especially lucyrich for all the laws and regulations.

I will hit the 3 years minus 90 day mark next week -- so I will wait until the end of next week to send the application.

Thanks!

[NickD 202]

"Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days"

The permanent resident is cut and dry, starts from the day your green card is issued to either your marriage 3rd anniversary or 5th without the marriage privilege.

Continuous residence is not quite so cut and dry and refers more to physical presence, not only the physical time spent in the USA with LPR status, but the time you spent with your USC spouse using the marriage privilege, and the time you spent in the field office area where you are applying from, that has to be at least 3 months.

The latter can be caused by simply moving across the street if that puts you into a different field office district. Meeting the physical presence requirement with your spouse leads to many questions, for example if your job takes you away from home during the work week, or you are going to school. But in USCIS terms, boils down to sharing your finances together, same permanent address, joint ownership and bank accounts, life and health insurance, etc.

Physical presence in living in the USA also has it's loopholes, for example, you own two homes, one this country another in your home country, USCIS doesn't seem to mind as long as you are not working in your home country and paying taxes to this one. Other means are serving in the military or where your USC spouse has some kind of government or religious job. This is where the law becomes complex, I had no reason to dig deep into this as we just made a few trips abroad that was well under the six month questionable limit and not a single day went by where we couldn't spend just a few minutes together with a hectic life style we have in this country.

Length of being a LPR is cut and dry, written right on your permanent resident card. But continuous residence has to be shown, and for some people, that can be a major problem.

[sqtb 0]

"Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days"

The permanent resident is cut and dry, starts from the day your green card is issued to either your marriage 3rd anniversary or 5th without the marriage privilege.

Continuous residence is not quite so cut and dry and refers more to physical presence, not only the physical time spent in the USA with LPR status, but the time you spent with your USC spouse using the marriage privilege, and the time you spent in the field office area where you are applying from, that has to be at least 3 months.

The latter can be caused by simply moving across the street if that puts you into a different field office district. Meeting the physical presence requirement with your spouse leads to many questions, for example if your job takes you away from home during the work week, or you are going to school. But in USCIS terms, boils down to sharing your finances together, same permanent address, joint ownership and bank accounts, life and health insurance, etc.

Physical presence in living in the USA also has it's loopholes, for example, you own two homes, one this country another in your home country, USCIS doesn't seem to mind as long as you are not working in your home country and paying taxes to this one. Other means are serving in the military or where your USC spouse has some kind of government or religious job. This is where the law becomes complex, I had no reason to dig deep into this as we just made a few trips abroad that was well under the six month questionable limit and not a single day went by where we couldn't spend just a few minutes together with a hectic life style we have in this country.

Length of being a LPR is cut and dry, written right on your permanent resident card. But continuous residence has to be shown, and for some people, that can be a major problem.

I don't have any situations about moving, or not having spent time in the US, etc. I have been in the US the whole time since I got my GC, so that is not an issue.

My only question is, can I apply for N-400 after 3 years minus 90 days, even though I have not been a PR for 3 years?

My confusion arose because the Instructions and Guide imply that I must be a PR for 3 years, but they also say that I can apply 90 days before my continuous residence requirement is satisfied. Ideally, I can just wait until 3 years are up, but I'd like to apply earlier if possible.

From what people have said, it seems like I can apply after 3 years minus 90 days of being a PR. If anyone here has any other opinions, please let me know.

Thanks!

[NickD 202]

"Permanent Resident in continuous residence for 3 years minus 90 days"

The permanent resident is cut and dry, starts from the day your green card is issued to either your marriage 3rd anniversary or 5th without the marriage privilege.

Continuous residence is not quite so cut and dry and refers more to physical presence, not only the physical time spent in the USA with LPR status, but the time you spent with your USC spouse using the marriage privilege, and the time you spent in the field office area where you are applying from, that has to be at least 3 months.

The latter can be caused by simply moving across the street if that puts you into a different field office district. Meeting the physical presence requirement with your spouse leads to many questions, for example if your job takes you away from home during the work week, or you are going to school. But in USCIS terms, boils down to sharing your finances together, same permanent address, joint ownership and bank accounts, life and health insurance, etc.

Physical presence in living in the USA also has it's loopholes, for example, you own two homes, one this country another in your home country, USCIS doesn't seem to mind as long as you are not working in your home country and paying taxes to this one. Other means are serving in the military or where your USC spouse has some kind of government or religious job. This is where the law becomes complex, I had no reason to dig deep into this as we just made a few trips abroad that was well under the six month questionable limit and not a single day went by where we couldn't spend just a few minutes together with a hectic life style we have in this country.

Length of being a LPR is cut and dry, written right on your permanent resident card. But continuous residence has to be shown, and for some people, that can be a major problem.

I don't have any situations about moving, or not having spent time in the US, etc. I have been in the US the whole time since I got my GC, so that is not an issue.

My only question is, can I apply for N-400 after 3 years minus 90 days, even though I have not been a PR for 3 years?

My confusion arose because the Instructions and Guide imply that I must be a PR for 3 years, but they also say that I can apply 90 days before my continuous residence requirement is satisfied. Ideally, I can just wait until 3 years are up, but I'd like to apply earlier if possible.

From what people have said, it seems like I can apply after 3 years minus 90 days of being a PR. If anyone here has any other opinions, please let me know.

Thanks!

We applied exactly 89 days before my wife's 3rd anniversary as a green card holder with an expired green card and the one year extension notice that we copied and sent in with our application. When her ten year card came in, she took that in with her for her interview that occurred just three weeks after she receive her ten year card. Four weeks later she said her oath. She had her ten year card for exactly seven weeks, then they took it back after all that hassel.

I see that one poster had her interview four days before her 3rd anniversary where at her field office, she could have said the oath the same day, they made her wait and not sure if she got her certificate or not.

It was because of the stress the USCIS caused us with the I-751 extremely long delays we decided to apply as early as possible, would have been 90 days for us, but that day occurred on a Sunday. With green cards, it's strictly up to you to keep yourself legal even if you have to make extra trips for that I-551 stamp in your current valid foreign passport, another pain in the a$$ to keep current or bring in two passport photos for an I-94.

We started filling out the N-400 two months in advance of that 90 day limit, had to regather all the evidence we submitted both for the AOS and I-751 plus updated stuff. Then another long trip for biometrics, then the interview, then the oath ceremony, then the DOS for a US Passport, her overpriced foreign passport was worthless for coming back. Then it's finally all over.

Our state was really cracking down on illegals, wife could have lost her job and driving license, it was up to us to keep her legal. And with no help from the USCIS, it's like they are your greatest enemy.