AOS Help Needed...we're desperate.

[GordonFreeman 0]

OK I didn't include her birth certificate.

You don't send the sponsors birth certificate. I am the USC/wife/sponsor and the only time I sent my BC was with the 1-129f petition. Never again for AOS, etc.

I would take the time to write each RFE they sent and respond to that specific one as to how you are handling it.

Household member's birth certificate: We have no household member's income included so are not sending a birth certificate for a household member.

Household member's tax return: We have no household member's income included so are not sending a tax return for a household member.

Immigrant's birth certificate: I am sending the international Birth Certificate provided by {insert name} to you again, with the English translation highlighted. (If you're sure that's an acceptable document. I don't know anything about translations since I married a British citizen.)

Whoa... so you're saying they don't want HER birth certificate?

So CAN I be included as a household member, while being the immigrant as well?? Apparently not!

These guys are so confusing!! Why are they asking for the household member's birth certificate if they can SEE in the forms that the household member is ME, THE IMMIGRANT??? Jesus christ almighty, this is insane

[Nich-Nick 3,355]

Your confusion after going over this makes me think you don't understand it and there is a chance you didn't get it when you sent it in.

[x] For the household member's income to be included in the household income, the household member's income must have been from a lawful source and earned while the household member was authorized to work in the United States.

In order to process your application further, submit evidence that the household member on form I-864, Affidavit of Support, was authorized to work in the United States. Examples include one of the following:

(x) A copy of a birth certificate issued by the proper civil authority showing birth in the United States. (In this instance a US birth certificate would prove the person was authorized to work because all US citizen are authorized.)

You don't have a household member. You have a sponsor and an immigrant. There is no birth certificate for your wife because she isn't the household member on line 24b. It is blank on your form you said.

These guys are so confusing!! Why are they asking for the household member's birth certificate if they can SEE in the forms that the household member is ME, THE IMMIGRANT??? Jesus christ almighty, this is insane

If they could SEE that you were listed as a household member, then you filled it out wrong. You are the immigrant and should not be listed on line 24b.

An example that has a household member.

John is a full time student who married Mary from China. He still lives at home with his Mom and Dad.

Mary applies for AOS.

John is the sponsor but only makes $10,000 a year. He lists that as the sponsor's income. 24a

Dad agrees to allow his income to be added to the household pot to help support Mary.

Dad makes $65,000/yr.

John lists Dad as a household member line 24b

Total income is $75,000.

Dad must submit birth certificate, income tax, etc, etc.

If John and Mary lived on their own and Dad was going to help:

John cant list Dad on 24b because they aren't living in the same house. The total income is $10,000 on John's I-864.

Dad does a separate I-864 as a co-sponsor and also submitting birth certificate, tax returns, etc..

Edited September 6, 2009 by Nich-Nick

[GordonFreeman 0]

Your confusion after going over this makes me think you don't understand it and there is a chance you didn't get it when you sent it in.

[x] For the household member's income to be included in the household income, the household member's income must have been from a lawful source and earned while the household member was authorized to work in the United States.

In order to process your application further, submit evidence that the household member on form I-864, Affidavit of Support, was authorized to work in the United States. Examples include one of the following:

(x) A copy of a birth certificate issued by the proper civil authority showing birth in the United States. (In this instance a US birth certificate would prove the person was authorized to work because all US citizen are authorized.)

You don't have a household member. You have a sponsor and an immigrant. There is no birth certificate for your wife because she isn't the household member on line 24b. It is blank on your form you said.

These guys are so confusing!! Why are they asking for the household member's birth certificate if they can SEE in the forms that the household member is ME, THE IMMIGRANT??? Jesus christ almighty, this is insane

If they could SEE that you were listed as a household member, then you filled it out wrong. You are the immigrant and should not be listed on line 24b.

An example that has a household member.

John is a full time student who married Mary from China. He still lives at home with his Mom and Dad.

Mary applies for AOS.

John is the sponsor but only makes $10,000 a year. He lists that as the sponsor's income. 24a

Dad agrees to allow his income to be added to the household pot to help support Mary.

Dad makes $65,000/yr.

John lists Dad as a household member line 24b

Total income is $75,000.

Dad must submit birth certificate, income tax, etc, etc.

If John and Mary lived on their own and Dad was going to help:

John cant list Dad on 24b because they aren't living in the same house. The total income is $10,000 on John's I-864.

Dad does a separate I-864 as a co-sponsor and also submitting birth certificate, tax returns, etc..

OK. But you surely understand WHY I filed it out "wrong", don't you? You can see why this is completely ridiculous, don't you?

I'm HER HUSBAND. What do they mean "I'm not a household member"??? This is ridiculous, man...

What? Because I'm an immigrant, my bank account is suddenly worth nothing? It's funny when Republicans complain about a stupid healthcare reform that is meant to help everyone, and they say it's "government control". They don't know what government control is. I'm being treated like an animal here.

**end of rant**

OK... lets take a deep breath then...

So to wrap it up, whoever sent that letter knew full well that I, the immigrant, included myself as a household member, and instead of explaining that in the letter, they pretended they didn't know the immigrant husband, and the household member, were the same person. They felt like playing a prank on me...

So what I need to do, apparently, is ignore their request for a " birth certificate" of the household member.

What I need to do is send a new I-864, pretend that my wife is the only person in the household, and get a joint sponsor to file it with her as well, and try to pass the poverty guidelines. Correct?

Apparently, even though we have no debts, like 80% of Americans, since we don't drive a Corvette, we're considered "poor", under the outdated 1940 USCIS standards. Wow, and I thought, after the K1 interview, there was no way they could ever make me feel more miserable...

Thanks, guys!

Edited September 6, 2009 by GordonFreeman

[Anh map 2,098]

I've been following this thread and have developed an ice cream headache trying to separate the rant and the facts. Here's my take on what's been presented. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Wife = USC = Primary Sponsor submitting an I-864

Husband = Immigrant = Household member completing the I-864A to include current income to meet the sponsorship income requirement. If the intending immigrant is only using assets then the I-864A isn't needed and the their asset value is listed on line 24 b of the I-864.

If the wife is only submitting income for the I-864 did she send in IRS transcripts? If so, that's all that's needed. If she sent copies of her return were all pages, schedules, W2's etc. sent? Double check to be sure. Is her 2008 return showing only wage income or investment or self employment? Did she also send an employer letter and recent paystubs? As others have said, sometimes things get lost, if you sent it all before, send again. Mistakes happen.

Did your wife supply proof of her citizenship or LPR status? (bio page from passport, birth cert., naturalization cert.)

If submitting the I-864A, the household member needs to submit a written explanation of why they were not required to file a 2008 tax return. (page 3 of I-864A instructions, page 8 of the I-864 instructions).

Did you submit the required documentation proving the ownership and value of the assets? And if applicable did your wife do the same for any assets to be used on her I-864? See page 8 of the I-864 instructions for the required info regarding assets.

Are the assets being used likely to be accepted? There is the "liquidity" caveat (Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included) that could be tripping you up. What are you using for assets (cash, investments, property, etc.). Not asking for $$ amounts, just trying to get a sense of suitability.

My two cents, put away the blame thrower and just get the info submitted. Perhaps a mistake was made by someone handling your file. Perhaps you made a mistake. Just get it taken care of (by the date indicated on the RFE) and enjoy life together with your spouse.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Anh map

[GordonFreeman 0]

I've been following this thread and have developed an ice cream headache trying to separate the rant and the facts. Here's my take on what's been presented. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Wife = USC = Primary Sponsor submitting an I-864

Husband = Immigrant = Household member completing the I-864A to include current income to meet the sponsorship income requirement. If the intending immigrant is only using assets then the I-864A isn't needed and the their asset value is listed on line 24 b of the I-864.

Correct.

So that means I CAN be an immigrant and a household member at the same time?

If the wife is only submitting income for the I-864 did she send in IRS transcripts? If so, that's all that's needed.

Yes, she did. They were denied. We still got the RFE.

Did your wife supply proof of her citizenship or LPR status? (bio page from passport, birth cert., naturalization cert.)

No, but someone else here already said that's not needed for HER. I'm confused again.

If submitting the I-864A, the household member needs to submit a written explanation of why they were not required to file a 2008 tax return. (page 3 of I-864A instructions, page 8 of the I-864 instructions).

Did you submit the required documentation proving the ownership and value of the assets? And if applicable did your wife do the same for any assets to be used on her I-864? See page 8 of the I-864 instructions for the required info regarding assets.

Are the assets being used likely to be accepted? There is the "liquidity" caveat (Only assets that can be converted into cash within one year and without considerable hardship or financial loss to the owner may be included) that could be tripping you up. What are you using for assets (cash, investments, property, etc.). Not asking for $$ amounts, just trying to get a sense of suitability.

They were all money in bank accounts. No "weird" assets.

My two cents, put away the blame thrower and just get the info submitted. Perhaps a mistake was made by someone handling your file. Perhaps you made a mistake. Just get it taken care of (by the date indicated on the RFE) and enjoy life together with your spouse.

I am here trying to understand exactly if I did something wrong, what I did wrong, and what can I do to correct it.

I called the USCIS support line and they couldn't tell me anything, nor put me through to someone handling my case. That's why I created this thread...

[KarenCee 3]

You know....maybe you need to have a consultation with an immigration attorney. Have him or her lookk over your AOS packet and see what this person tells you. I've read through what you posted...I personally feel that it's a matter of just sending them what they want AGAIN.

Also, there are example forms on this site. Read through the Guides again. It can't hurt.

[Nich-Nick 3,355]

I-864 Step-by-Step Instructions starting on page 4. Italics is direct from the instructions.

Step-by-Step Instructions Form I-864 is divided into nine parts. The information below will help you fill out the form.

Part 4 Information on the Sponsor (on page 5)

19. Citizenship/Residency. (found on page 6)

Proof of U.S. citizen, national, or permanent resident status is required for joint and substitute sponsors and for relatives of employment-based immigrants who file this form. Petitioning relatives who have already filed proof of their citizenship or immigration status with Forms I-130, Form I-129F, I-600 and I-600A do not need to submit proof of their status with this form

That's where I get that your wife, the sponsor, who has already submitted her proof of citizenship with the I-129f petition does not need to submit a birth certificate. The RFE says the birth certificate of the household member. The OP assumed the "household member" was his wife, so assumed the RFE is asking for her birth certificate. She is NOT the household member (as defined for this form) so his assumptions about her birth certificate are false. She is the petitioning relative for the 129f and the primary sponsor for the Affidavit of Support.

I still interpret a household member this form is mostly referring to is perhaps her Mom, Dad, sister, brother-in-law, or a boarder who lives in the house and wants to help contribute to the support of the immigrant.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Hey everyone - I thought I would never come back to this forum, unless to help out other people with their cases...

K1 was approved, I came to the US, we got married, and we filed for my AOS.

We were so happy that everything went well, and we could finally be together without worries... and in just a couple months I would be looking for a job here!

That happiness was only temporary.

We received 3 pages of request for Initial Evidence on the I-485.

What shocked me (or not really) is that there is no way to fish more information about what exactly they want!

- Among several requests for evidence we already provided, carefully and methodically, they state that we didn't meet the poverty guidelines (when I checked and re-checked all the numbers and we DID meet them!).

- They ask for tax documentation for the last year, which we already sent them on the AOS package.

- They also ask for my translated birth certificate copy, which WAS sent to them, in multi-language format that is used specifically for these situations.

- Last but not least was something I did not send the first time, which was the copy of my wife's US birth certificate. (that's the only thing that makes sense...)

I'm scared because all of these requests are so robotic - I will send them exactly the same things I sent the first time, and her birth certificate, but I will probably get another letter like this one, or get denied! They don't explain WHY the documentation I sent was insufficient (like my birth certificate copy). So how am I supposed to guess what else to send to convince them those ARE the real documents?

I can post the letter here, but it would make the post too long. If someone can help, and thinks that would contain important information to solve this issue, I will gladly copy it here! Thank you all in advance...

Well yes, the exact RFE would help. Some possible problems

1. They lost something

2. The translation is not certified. It needs to bear the name and address of the translator and a signed statement that the person is competent in both languages and it is a true and accurate translation. Often foreign translations do not meet this requirement. My wife does translations and has done re-translations for exactly this reason. The translation met all the requirements for Ukraine or Russia, but not for USCIS. Doesn't matter what else the translation says, if it doesn't have the certification it is no good to USCIS.

3. Possibly did not include w-2s with tax documents

4. Some income may not be eligibe to be considered. If there is ANYTHING wrong with the I-864 it will be dismissed, as if it didn't exist and you will be told you do not meet the guidelines

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I-864 Step-by-Step Instructions starting on page 4. Italics is direct from the instructions.

Step-by-Step Instructions Form I-864 is divided into nine parts. The information below will help you fill out the form.

Part 4 Information on the Sponsor (on page 5)

19. Citizenship/Residency. (found on page 6)

Proof of U.S. citizen, national, or permanent resident status is required for joint and substitute sponsors and for relatives of employment-based immigrants who file this form. Petitioning relatives who have already filed proof of their citizenship or immigration status with Forms I-130, Form I-129F, I-600 and I-600A do not need to submit proof of their status with this form

That's where I get that your wife, the sponsor, who has already submitted her proof of citizenship with the I-129f petition does not need to submit a birth certificate. The RFE says the birth certificate of the household member. The OP assumed the "household member" was his wife, so assumed the RFE is asking for her birth certificate. She is NOT the household member (as defined for this form) so his assumptions about her birth certificate are false. She is the petitioning relative for the 129f and the primary sponsor for the Affidavit of Support.

I still interpret a household member this form is mostly referring to is perhaps her Mom, Dad, sister, brother-in-law, or a boarder who lives in the house and wants to help contribute to the support of the immigrant.

Exactly. The request for his wife's birth certificate threw me also, but hey, whatever. I never submitted one. As I said above, IF there is anything wrong with the I-864 (no birth certificate of the household member for example) then the WHOLE thing is tossed and does not exist. Providing the missing birth certificate will likely "kill two birds with one stone" but they leave that to you to figure out also.

[GordonFreeman 0]

Hey guys Sorry for the bump, this is just to inform (whoever may be interested) about what I'll be doing.

- I xeroxed the front/back birth certificate to 2 separate pages, and signaled the English translation of most individual fields with a yellow marker.

I will be also adding a cover letter explaining that it contains the English translation, which I assume was missed the first time, since it is mostly contained in the second page, in very small print. The first page of the birth certificate only contains the fields in Portuguese and French, which, combined with extreme incompetence of government authorities, laziness and lack of respect for our efforts, could have made them think the BC was untranslated (even though they probably see hundreds of those every month).

- We will be replacing my wife as a sponsor, and getting a completely new joint sponsor altogether. The sponsor will (hopefully) be a friend of ours, who is my step-mother-in-law, and works at NASA-JPL. She sponsored me for the K1, before I came here to get married.

I will report back on the success/failure of this second attempt.

Edited September 19, 2009 by GordonFreeman