President Reagan speaks about Socialized medicine.

[luckytxn 2,265]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

Mark, what would be the scenario if we had unicare now and in five years we experienced a economic collapse such as that of 1929. Cutbacks? elimination? Opinion?

Exactly. These takeovers and increases will mean bankruptcies and many people going under. Many people live paycheck to paycheck. No one has said how many businesses will go under after this health care reform takes over.

[mawilson 2,133]

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

Mark, what would be the scenario if we had unicare now and in five years we experienced a economic collapse such as that of 1929. Cutbacks? elimination? Opinion?

I don't support unicare, but I'm guessing yes. The politicians will not stop until they bankrupt this country and unicare is a sure way to do it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.

Why are you worrying what could happen years down the line?

You can't know what will happen in the future, or that there's any inevitability that the entire healthcare system will become nationalised as a result.

[Tahoma 2,298]

Reagan was so right but even he never saw that so many sheep and Koolaid drinkers would buy the lies of Obama the Socialist so readily.

Rainman returns!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

HB3200 would never be able to be implemented its vague and would be a disaster! Go try to read it!

Many bills are unintelligible to non-lawyers. What's new? If you couldn't comprehend it, then how do you know it would be a disaster? Maybe you did what the rest of us would do...you took the word of someone you trusted on the issue. Rush perhaps?

Speaking of disasters, go read your own insurance policy. It does not address the games your insurance can (and will) play on you. Been there/done that.

So therefore we should just accept it? Sheesh, gotta love that logic.,

OK...I see that I need to slow it down for you. "...you...took...the...word...of...someone...you...trusted...on...the...issu

e." I hope this made it easier for you to understand. We can go slower if you are still having problems with your reading comprehension.

Go read HB3200! Then get back to me. Its trash! 1000 pages of gobledy goop and your all for it? Ignorance is bliss.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

HB3200 would never be able to be implemented its vague and would be a disaster! Go try to read it!

Many bills are unintelligible to non-lawyers. What's new? If you couldn't comprehend it, then how do you know it would be a disaster? Maybe you did what the rest of us would do...you took the word of someone you trusted on the issue. Rush perhaps?

Speaking of disasters, go read your own insurance policy. It does not address the games your insurance can (and will) play on you. Been there/done that.

So therefore we should just accept it? Sheesh, gotta love that logic.,

OK...I see that I need to slow it down for you. "...you...took...the...word...of...someone...you...trusted...on...the...issu

e." I hope this made it easier for you to understand. We can go slower if you are still having problems with your reading comprehension.

Go read HB3200! Then get back to me. Its trash! 1000 pages of gobledy goop and your all for it? Ignorance is bliss.

I think the point you missed there was that the bill being "unintelligible" to a layman doesn't automatically make it a bad bill.

[_Simpson_ 250]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.

Why are you worrying what could happen years down the line?

You can't know what will happen in the future, or that there's any inevitability that the entire healthcare system will become nationalised as a result.

I like to look ahead and avoid problems.

What about this bill could lead me to believe we wont go down that road I mentioned? Bad or good idea aside people on the left need to start being honest about this bill, look at where it will lead to and address those issues.

Edited August 14, 2009 by looking_up

[Heracles 417]

If an actor says it's wrong, then surely, it must be wrong.

Those who are opposing this, I would like to know their background. Their education level.

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[HAL 9000 96]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.

Why are you worrying what could happen years down the line?

You can't know what will happen in the future, or that there's any inevitability that the entire healthcare system will become nationalised as a result.

I like to look ahead and avoid problems.

What about this bill could lead me to believe we wont go down that road I mentioned? Bad or good idea aside people on the left need to start being honest about this bill, look at where it will lead to and address those issues.

Which bill?

I have not read anything in any of the bills that pave the way for any nationalized, socialized, whatever -ized system you want to call it. That one page 16 deal some people were making a fuss about was shown to be a lack of reading comprehension of legalese.

[_Simpson_ 250]

If an actor says it's wrong, then surely, it must be wrong.

That addresses none of the points he made, it seems you want to discredit him somehow because he was a actor.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

HB3200 would never be able to be implemented its vague and would be a disaster! Go try to read it!

Many bills are unintelligible to non-lawyers. What's new? If you couldn't comprehend it, then how do you know it would be a disaster? Maybe you did what the rest of us would do...you took the word of someone you trusted on the issue. Rush perhaps?

Speaking of disasters, go read your own insurance policy. It does not address the games your insurance can (and will) play on you. Been there/done that.

So therefore we should just accept it? Sheesh, gotta love that logic.,

OK...I see that I need to slow it down for you. "...you...took...the...word...of...someone...you...trusted...on...the...issu

e." I hope this made it easier for you to understand. We can go slower if you are still having problems with your reading comprehension.

Go read HB3200! Then get back to me. Its trash! 1000 pages of gobledy goop and your all for it? Ignorance is bliss.

I think the point you missed there was that the bill being "unintelligible" to a layman doesn't automatically make it a bad bill.

So me being a layman should be impressed by unintelligibilty? Are you kidding me? The more vague something is makes it intelligent? Wow.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.

I am dishonest? I am dishonest for pointing out the fact that there are plenty of real world examples of how universal health care coverage does not lead to socialized medicine? Let me tell you that the only dishonest person in our little exhange is you for making a claim for which there isn't a shred of factual evidence. Not a shred. If there is evidence that supports your claim, please present it. Can't wait to see.

[_Simpson_ 250]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Medicine will become socialized if we ensure that everyone has access to adequate health care by taking steps towards universal health insurance coverage? How have all the developed countries except the UK and Sweden (who pursued socialized health care as a model) managed to have private health care sectors while ofering universal coverage? Your argument makes no sense nor does it reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

So you agree it will lead to be socialized for the average Joe. Thats the point I was trying to make, you responded to the Reagan post saying "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" I think that is a dishonest in nature when we all know were it will lead too. Dems are trying to sell it in that manner too and they really dont give the people of enough credit. Its not looking to good to for the bill, and it seems people get it now if Dems can get it

No I do not agree. I specifically refuted that very point. I must ask, is it the reading or the comprehension that troubles you? Clearly, you haven't understood what I wrote.

No you dont get my point. Your being dishonest in nature if you try to say "There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US" because we know what this reform bill will lead to. So when I hear the countless people here at VJ and other places trying to get me on board with this bill because I will have other options well it just makes me want to laugh. I know better.

Why are you worrying what could happen years down the line?

You can't know what will happen in the future, or that there's any inevitability that the entire healthcare system will become nationalised as a result.

I like to look ahead and avoid problems.

What about this bill could lead me to believe we wont go down that road I mentioned? Bad or good idea aside people on the left need to start being honest about this bill, look at where it will lead to and address those issues.

Which bill?

I have not read anything in any of the bills that pave the way for any nationalized, socialized, whatever -ized system you want to call it. That one page 16 deal some people were making a fuss about was shown to be a lack of reading comprehension of legalese.

reform bill. So do you really think that most business wont go the way of the gov. considering it would be cheaper? What about this bill will not pave the road for socialized health care?

[Heracles 417]

If an actor says it's wrong, then surely, it must be wrong.

That addresses none of the points he made, it seems you want to discredit him somehow because he was a actor.

Bunch of BS rhetoric. Fact, you don't have the best medical system in the world. So don't give me this bull ####### that the hc system will be nationalized and turned to ######.

The other thing is that when clowns talk about the "number of pages", that is a bunch of hog wash too. The bill could be one page in length and these same individuals, who don't have a clue or education, would still complain about it.

Some people need to stick to quad driving and leave health care reform to those who earned a degree or two. We earned the right to think, something they haven't. First amendment gives you the right to speak, not think.

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[Peikko 1,575]

Scorchio!