Lt. Watada is a real deal hero

[mikeize 0]

I would never join this nation's army, because there is too deep a history of its mis-application. Too often it has been wielded for the purposes of regime change, too often for the benefit of private interests, too often under false pretenses. Too many people have been slaughtered for such bullsh*t!

Yeah, other countries too. Guess what? I wouldn't join their fuckin armies either.

This guy prolly forgot about the disgusting history of our "foreign policy", on Sept. 11th. I can't fault him for that. I also know more than one republican who supports the war in afghanistan but not the one in iraq.

Having said that, if you join the army... and it bites you, you got what you deserve. Well, these days anyway... when there is hardly a reasonable expectation that you will be sent anywhere for noble reasons.

-mike

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I would never join this nation's army, because there is too deep a history of its mis-application. Too often it has been wielded for the purposes of regime change, too often for the benefit of private interests, too often under false pretenses. Too many people have been slaughtered for such bullsh*t!

Yeah, other countries too. Guess what? I wouldn't join their fuckin armies either.

This guy prolly forgot about the disgusting history of our "foreign policy", on Sept. 11th. I can't fault him for that. I also know more than one republican who supports the war in afghanistan but not the one in iraq.

Having said that, if you join the army... and it bites you, you got what you deserve. Well, these days anyway... when there is hardly a reasonable expectation that you will be sent anywhere for noble reasons.

-mike

that's fine... I respect free choice.

But hypothetically... Would you join up if you were alive (and eligable) during WW2? To fight facism?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I would never join this nation's army, because there is too deep a history of its mis-application. Too often it has been wielded for the purposes of regime change, too often for the benefit of private interests, too often under false pretenses. Too many people have been slaughtered for such bullsh*t!

Yeah, other countries too. Guess what? I wouldn't join their fuckin armies either.

This guy prolly forgot about the disgusting history of our "foreign policy", on Sept. 11th. I can't fault him for that. I also know more than one republican who supports the war in afghanistan but not the one in iraq.

Having said that, if you join the army... and it bites you, you got what you deserve. Well, these days anyway... when there is hardly a reasonable expectation that you will be sent anywhere for noble reasons.

-mike

that's fine... I respect free choice.

But hypothetically... Would you join up if you were alive (and eligable) during WW2? To fight facism?

Hypothetically none of us would have had any choice

[gimygirl 0]

*waves my flag hello and runs*

[ual777 0]

Wow. Just read the whole thread. There are a million points made here that make my blood boil, but in short, I can't believe how many people actually argue that following orders is following orders, under all circumstances in the military. It's attitudes like these that are slowly (well, quickly) smothering dissent in this country--doesn't sound like upholding the Constitution very well to me.

Well, we are already an increasingly fascist state, might as well incorporate all components of a good one.

*Now see more clearly why my boyfriend wants all future kids to attend schools outside the US, where they will not be indoctrinated with this BS POV.

2 things,

1. Im selling tin-foil hats for 3.99. Interested?

2. Tell me how the US is fascist? TELL ME. Is it because the supreme court ruled medicinal marijuana illegal? Is it because we don't allow gay marriage? Is it because they want to secure the southern border? Tell me why. Tell me where are the death camps? Who is being prosecuted? Who declared themselves the Führer? You obviously know NOTHING about the oaths of servicemen, the military or what facism even is. I cannot stand it when people come on here and spew this nonsense. When you enlist in the military, you are playing by a new set of rules. You are told what to do, and you do it unless it involved the wholesale killing of civilians. Charging an officer who refuses to deploy is not "smothering dissent". Officers lead men, and what this guy has done makes me want to throw up I find it so disgusting and dishonorable.

They should send him to clear land mines in a penal battalion since we are SOOOOO facist. Oh, and then we can strip him of his citizenship if he survives! Sieg Heil!

Go learn something about the military then come back before saying something so ignorant.

[*Robert* 2]

*waves my flag hello and runs*

Aw come on now Mon... how can you be afraid of *this* government?!!

[desert_fox 32]

Officers dont enlist.

Take this hero...court martial him...put him against a wall and shoot his sorry a$$. You dont have the right to determine which wars are just and which are not.

Hero?????????? A joke!!

[slim 1,514]

I'd like to applaud another American Hero in our U.S. Army:

PFC. Jessica Lynch.

Her overwhelming courage in the face of the enemy is what sets the bar high for other soldiers to follow. Then, the government, by awarding her the Silver Star, further cemented exactly the type of conduct they expect from our "heroes" in the "war on terror" and more specifically, the "war" in Iraq.

I especially liked the part in the Barbara Walters special when PFC Lynch responded after being asked what she did when she heard the enemy firing at her and saw her fellow soldiers being killed and wounded in the attack on their convoy: "I dropped my weapon and just cried and prayed."

IF THAT'S NOT DESERVING OF A SILVER STAR.... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!!!

If Jessica Lynch was awarded the Silver Star, I think this Lt. Watada should be given the Medal of Honor. Seriously, I think this man is a HERO. It's so nice to see someone in the military with the BALLS to stand up for what they believe is right, even when facing such huge and unsurmountable odds. And for those of you out there that say he should've done it earlier... WHY? Military life is VERY different from civilian life. You can fly under the radar as long as you're doing your job and not "stepping out of line." This man's job was to train and organize his group of soldiers to be combat effective and ready to deploy worldwide. HE DID THAT! Furthermore, he related that he would gladly do his duty in Afghanistan and had already served in Korea. He was doing his duty as an officer in the U.S. Army and was willing to deploy to fight the enemy. (And apparently was doing an effective job of it, as he was still in command of soldiers.)

Military personnel are faced with a moral conundrum from day one. It is so engrained in every soldier (and I'll use soldier here as a "generic" term for someone serving in any military unit.) to be part of the team and complete the mission, even if it means sacrificing their own personal well-being. Conversely, they are told to have honor, morals, and integrity. One cannot have honor, morals, or integrity without first having PERSONAL beliefs. Even if they personally believe the GROUP objective (let's invade this country because we're ordered to) they still must decide what is the honorable thing to do. "Should I blow up this power plant that runs both the hospital and the weapons factory... or should I just try to take out the weapons factory.... well, mission priority... take out the power plant. HOOOOAH!" Now, if you believe the mission is one that dictates taking out the power plant, great. You did your duty, did it well, and did it with honor. If you don't feel that cutting the power to a hospital is a good trade for also cutting power to a weapons factory, then you probably wouldn't feel too honorable about doing your duty.) It appears to me that Lt. Watada realized prior to his deployment that he would be asked to do things in Iraq that he could not "morally" do, and could not "morally" ask his soldiers to do either. I don't believe that makes him a coward, I believe that shows his integrity. I also think it shows a lot of courage to speak out against the chain of command and stand up for what he knows he would be crucified for doing.

I believe going to Iraq, and following the orders that he was given there, would've made him more of a coward than standing up for what he believes in. This "war" in Iraq is going in the wrong direction. The only thing that is going to make it go in the right direction is for people (especially officers in the military) with strong morals to stand up for what they believe in.

We can debate all day the semantics of the legality of the "war" in Iraq, and whether his decision to boycott the deployment is covered under LOAC, but why should a man who is STANDING UP for his beliefs be persecuted when a girl who "dropped her weapon and just cried and prayed" under enemy fire is hailed as a Silver Star earning "hero?"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Jessica Lynch thing was rather suspicious IMO, considering that her account contradicts the 'official' story that was put out by the Pentagon. My opinion - it was exaggerated for the purposes of providing 'friendly PR'.

Months after returning, Lynch finally began speaking to the public. Her statements tended to be sharply critical of the original story presented by the Pentagon. When asked about her hero status, "That wasn't me. I'm not about to take credit for something I didn't do ... I'm just a survivor."

She denied the claims that she fought until being wounded, reporting that her weapon jammed immediately, and that she could not have done anything anyway. Interviewed with Diane Sawyer, Lynch stated, concerning the Pentagon: "They used me to symbolize all this stuff. It's wrong. I don't know why they filmed [my rescue] or why they say these things". She also stated "I did not shoot, not a round, nothing. I went down praying to my knees. And that's the last I remember." She reported excellent treatment in Iraq, and that one person in the hospital even sang to her to help her feel at home.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Fishdude

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'd like to applaud another American Hero in our U.S. Army:

PFC. Jessica Lynch.

Her overwhelming courage in the face of the enemy is what sets the bar high for other soldiers to follow. Then, the government, by awarding her the Silver Star, further cemented exactly the type of conduct they expect from our "heroes" in the "war on terror" and more specifically, the "war" in Iraq.

I especially liked the part in the Barbara Walters special when PFC Lynch responded after being asked what she did when she heard the enemy firing at her and saw her fellow soldiers being killed and wounded in the attack on their convoy: "I dropped my weapon and just cried and prayed."

IF THAT'S NOT DESERVING OF A SILVER STAR.... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!!!

If Jessica Lynch was awarded the Silver Star, I think this Lt. Watada should be given the Medal of Honor. Seriously, I think this man is a HERO. It's so nice to see someone in the military with the BALLS to stand up for what they believe is right, even when facing such huge and unsurmountable odds. And for those of you out there that say he should've done it earlier... WHY? Military life is VERY different from civilian life. You can fly under the radar as long as you're doing your job and not "stepping out of line." This man's job was to train and organize his group of soldiers to be combat effective and ready to deploy worldwide. HE DID THAT! Furthermore, he related that he would gladly do his duty in Afghanistan and had already served in Korea. He was doing his duty as an officer in the U.S. Army and was willing to deploy to fight the enemy. (And apparently was doing an effective job of it, as he was still in command of soldiers.)

Military personnel are faced with a moral conundrum from day one. It is so engrained in every soldier (and I'll use soldier here as a "generic" term for someone serving in any military unit.) to be part of the team and complete the mission, even if it means sacrificing their own personal well-being. Conversely, they are told to have honor, morals, and integrity. One cannot have honor, morals, or integrity without first having PERSONAL beliefs. Even if they personally believe the GROUP objective (let's invade this country because we're ordered to) they still must decide what is the honorable thing to do. "Should I blow up this power plant that runs both the hospital and the weapons factory... or should I just try to take out the weapons factory.... well, mission priority... take out the power plant. HOOOOAH!" Now, if you believe the mission is one that dictates taking out the power plant, great. You did your duty, did it well, and did it with honor. If you don't feel that cutting the power to a hospital is a good trade for also cutting power to a weapons factory, then you probably wouldn't feel too honorable about doing your duty.) It appears to me that Lt. Watada realized prior to his deployment that he would be asked to do things in Iraq that he could not "morally" do, and could not "morally" ask his soldiers to do either. I don't believe that makes him a coward, I believe that shows his integrity. I also think it shows a lot of courage to speak out against the chain of command and stand up for what he knows he would be crucified for doing.

I believe going to Iraq, and following the orders that he was given there, would've made him more of a coward than standing up for what he believes in. This "war" in Iraq is going in the wrong direction. The only thing that is going to make it go in the right direction is for people (especially officers in the military) with strong morals to stand up for what they believe in.

We can debate all day the semantics of the legality of the "war" in Iraq, and whether his decision to boycott the deployment is covered under LOAC, but why should a man who is STANDING UP for his beliefs be persecuted when a girl who "dropped her weapon and just cried and prayed" under enemy fire is hailed as a Silver Star earning "hero?"

Well said!

[ual777 0]

I'd like to applaud another American Hero in our U.S. Army:

PFC. Jessica Lynch.

Her overwhelming courage in the face of the enemy is what sets the bar high for other soldiers to follow. Then, the government, by awarding her the Silver Star, further cemented exactly the type of conduct they expect from our "heroes" in the "war on terror" and more specifically, the "war" in Iraq.

I especially liked the part in the Barbara Walters special when PFC Lynch responded after being asked what she did when she heard the enemy firing at her and saw her fellow soldiers being killed and wounded in the attack on their convoy: "I dropped my weapon and just cried and prayed."

IF THAT'S NOT DESERVING OF A SILVER STAR.... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS!!!!

If Jessica Lynch was awarded the Silver Star, I think this Lt. Watada should be given the Medal of Honor. Seriously, I think this man is a HERO. It's so nice to see someone in the military with the BALLS to stand up for what they believe is right, even when facing such huge and unsurmountable odds. And for those of you out there that say he should've done it earlier... WHY? Military life is VERY different from civilian life. You can fly under the radar as long as you're doing your job and not "stepping out of line." This man's job was to train and organize his group of soldiers to be combat effective and ready to deploy worldwide. HE DID THAT! Furthermore, he related that he would gladly do his duty in Afghanistan and had already served in Korea. He was doing his duty as an officer in the U.S. Army and was willing to deploy to fight the enemy. (And apparently was doing an effective job of it, as he was still in command of soldiers.)

Military personnel are faced with a moral conundrum from day one. It is so engrained in every soldier (and I'll use soldier here as a "generic" term for someone serving in any military unit.) to be part of the team and complete the mission, even if it means sacrificing their own personal well-being. Conversely, they are told to have honor, morals, and integrity. One cannot have honor, morals, or integrity without first having PERSONAL beliefs. Even if they personally believe the GROUP objective (let's invade this country because we're ordered to) they still must decide what is the honorable thing to do. "Should I blow up this power plant that runs both the hospital and the weapons factory... or should I just try to take out the weapons factory.... well, mission priority... take out the power plant. HOOOOAH!" Now, if you believe the mission is one that dictates taking out the power plant, great. You did your duty, did it well, and did it with honor. If you don't feel that cutting the power to a hospital is a good trade for also cutting power to a weapons factory, then you probably wouldn't feel too honorable about doing your duty.) It appears to me that Lt. Watada realized prior to his deployment that he would be asked to do things in Iraq that he could not "morally" do, and could not "morally" ask his soldiers to do either. I don't believe that makes him a coward, I believe that shows his integrity. I also think it shows a lot of courage to speak out against the chain of command and stand up for what he knows he would be crucified for doing.

I believe going to Iraq, and following the orders that he was given there, would've made him more of a coward than standing up for what he believes in. This "war" in Iraq is going in the wrong direction. The only thing that is going to make it go in the right direction is for people (especially officers in the military) with strong morals to stand up for what they believe in.

We can debate all day the semantics of the legality of the "war" in Iraq, and whether his decision to boycott the deployment is covered under LOAC, but why should a man who is STANDING UP for his beliefs be persecuted when a girl who "dropped her weapon and just cried and prayed" under enemy fire is hailed as a Silver Star earning "hero?"

I can't believe you think that this scumbag should get the Medal of Honor! He is a coward and a traitor. He failed his men, reneged on his oath as an officer, and should go to jail.

I'm glad he confessed so he wouldn't get any good men killed in the sandbox.

[slim 1,514]

I would gladly follow Lt. Watada into battle any day.

Any man with the willingness to sit in jail for 7 years for his beliefs would get less men killed in the sandbox than those willing to dive head-first into an ill-advised military campaign.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I can't believe you think that this scumbag should get the Medal of Honor! He is a coward and a traitor. He failed his men, reneged on his oath as an officer, and should go to jail.

I'm glad he confessed so he wouldn't get any good men killed in the sandbox.

Suspend for a moment what you're personal views are regarding to the war in Iraq. What is the duty of a U.S. soldier? What are they sworn to uphold and protect? Orders or the law? If Lt. Watada truly believes that going to Iraq would mean that he would violate his ultimate duty of upholding the laws of this country, then why can you not at least respect that?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I would gladly follow Lt. Watada into battle any day.

Any man with the willingness to sit in jail for 7 years for his beliefs would get less men killed in the sandbox than those willing to dive head-first into an ill-advised military campaign.

If he really is willing to serve jail time.

[*Robert* 2]

I would gladly follow Lt. Watada into battle any day.

Any man with the willingness to sit in jail for 7 years for his beliefs would get less men killed in the sandbox than those willing to dive head-first into an ill-advised military campaign.

Going to be hard to follow someone into battle who won't go.

Slim, did you serve in the military?

What example do you think he is setting for other officers? As has been said before in this thread, he should have expressed those beliefs long before this, or he shouldn't have taken a commision.