Gheys Want to Marry

[mRx 16]

By Charles Reese

What in the world is all this flap and hullabaloo about homosexual marriage licenses? Who cares?

This is another of those inconsequential red-herring issues designed to distract you while the politicians steal the country right out from under you. You had better worry about why one euro costs $1.19 rather than whether two homosexuals can get a piece of paper at the county courthouse.

Logically, to forbid something, one must demonstrate that the forbidden act will cause harm to others. OK. What harm will befall you and me and our children if two homosexuals get a marriage license? Well, I'm waiting. I'm sorry I have nothing to contribute. I can't think of any harm it will cause to anyone.

The fact that the state has intruded itself as a third party in every marriage does not add to the sanctity of the marriage. It is just a state license, like a license to be a plumber. As far as the state is concerned, a marriage license is a license for a civil union, since the state doesn't care whether a preacher or a notary public marries you.

"Civil union" is a political euphemism for marriage. It allows the politician to get votes from both sides. The politician can be in favor of civil union but not marriage. That's like a legislator being "personally opposed" to abortion but voting to legalize it. We already have a surplus of hypocrisy in this country. Let's not add to it with euphemisms.

Well, homosexual acts are against God's law, you say. OK, presumably God will enforce his own laws. You won't find in the Christian Bible any passage that says the responsibility for enforcing God's laws rests with the secular state. There are several acts denoted as sins that are not illegal.

Furthermore, Christianity is a personal religion, not a tribal or state religion. If you wish to be a Christian, then you have a personal obligation to obey the commands of the Christian religion. Whether someone else does or does not is of no concern to you. You can be a devout, scrupulously pure Christian in the midst of the most outrageous sinners. Your obligation is to obey God's commandments, not to compel someone else to do it.

Protestants in particular have a problem. It was the Protestants who said: "We don't need no Pope or priest to interpret the Bible. Everybody can read it and interpret it for themselves." Well, everybody includes homosexuals. Protestants have been arguing and even fighting over interpretations of the Scripture for centuries, but again, that is a private affair and no concern of the secular state.

Some people have acted as if state recognition of homosexual marriages will cause the whole of Christian morality to collapse. I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but traditional Christian morality collapsed in this country long before homosexuals came out of the closet. This is a secular, decadent, even freaky society, or have you not noticed? Watch MTV or go to the movies or watch prime-time television. The elites in this country definitely do not practice morality, Christian or otherwise. You are already living in the dawn of a new Dark Age – or whatever the 21st-century equivalent will turn out to be. Don't sweat homosexual marriage licenses. That is the least of our problems.

Since I'm not a plumber, the state's policy on plumbers' licenses is not an issue for me. Since I'm not a homosexual, the state's policy on homosexual marriage licenses is not an issue for me. But as a libertarian, I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people have an incurable itch to control other people's lives.

If homosexuals want a marriage license, give it to them. It won't have any effect whatsoever on our lives or the life of the nation or the course of world history. And a word to homophobes, most of whom are latent homosexuals themselves: Denying them a marriage license does not convert them into heterosexuals.

November 24, 2003

[TotalTommyTerror 0]

I love the argument that marriage is "sacred" or we have to preserve the "tradition" of it.

For one, the "tradition" of marriage changes every 10-20 years. It wasn't that long ago that interracial couples didn't get blessings for marriage.

As for the "sacred" state. As Chris Rock put it... "Michael Jackson got married!"

[Nessa 23]

i think it's unamerican to deny gays and polygamists to get married, since this is the land of the free.

[Marina-Del 10]

By Charles Reese

Well, homosexual acts are against God's law, you say. OK, presumably God will enforce his own laws. You won't find in the Christian Bible any passage that says the responsibility for enforcing God's laws rests with the secular state. There are several acts denoted as sins that are not illegal.

Too true. Great article, thanks for sharing!!!!

i think it's unamerican to deny gays and polygamists to get married, since this is the land of the free.

Agreed!

[Danno 1,228]

By Charles Reese

What in the world is all this flap and hullabaloo about homosexual marriage licenses? Who cares?

This is another of those inconsequential red-herring issues designed to distract you while the politicians steal the country right out from under you. You had better worry about why one euro costs $1.19 rather than whether two homosexuals can get a piece of paper at the county courthouse.

Logically, to forbid something, one must demonstrate that the forbidden act will cause harm to others. OK. What harm will befall you and me and our children if two homosexuals get a marriage license? Well, I'm waiting. I'm sorry I have nothing to contribute. I can't think of any harm it will cause to anyone.

The fact that the state has intruded itself as a third party in every marriage does not add to the sanctity of the marriage. It is just a state license, like a license to be a plumber. As far as the state is concerned, a marriage license is a license for a civil union, since the state doesn't care whether a preacher or a notary public marries you.

"Civil union" is a political euphemism for marriage. It allows the politician to get votes from both sides. The politician can be in favor of civil union but not marriage. That's like a legislator being "personally opposed" to abortion but voting to legalize it. We already have a surplus of hypocrisy in this country. Let's not add to it with euphemisms.

Well, homosexual acts are against God's law, you say. OK, presumably God will enforce his own laws. You won't find in the Christian Bible any passage that says the responsibility for enforcing God's laws rests with the secular state. There are several acts denoted as sins that are not illegal.

Furthermore, Christianity is a personal religion, not a tribal or state religion. If you wish to be a Christian, then you have a personal obligation to obey the commands of the Christian religion. Whether someone else does or does not is of no concern to you. You can be a devout, scrupulously pure Christian in the midst of the most outrageous sinners. Your obligation is to obey God's commandments, not to compel someone else to do it.

Protestants in particular have a problem. It was the Protestants who said: "We don't need no Pope or priest to interpret the Bible. Everybody can read it and interpret it for themselves." Well, everybody includes homosexuals. Protestants have been arguing and even fighting over interpretations of the Scripture for centuries, but again, that is a private affair and no concern of the secular state.

Some people have acted as if state recognition of homosexual marriages will cause the whole of Christian morality to collapse. I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but traditional Christian morality collapsed in this country long before homosexuals came out of the closet. This is a secular, decadent, even freaky society, or have you not noticed? Watch MTV or go to the movies or watch prime-time television. The elites in this country definitely do not practice morality, Christian or otherwise. You are already living in the dawn of a new Dark Age – or whatever the 21st-century equivalent will turn out to be. Don't sweat homosexual marriage licenses. That is the least of our problems.

Since I'm not a plumber, the state's policy on plumbers' licenses is not an issue for me. Since I'm not a homosexual, the state's policy on homosexual marriage licenses is not an issue for me. But as a libertarian, I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people have an incurable itch to control other people's lives.

If homosexuals want a marriage license, give it to them. It won't have any effect whatsoever on our lives or the life of the nation or the course of world history. And a word to homophobes, most of whom are latent homosexuals themselves: Denying them a marriage license does not convert them into heterosexuals.

November 24, 2003

MAt85 you let me down.

Usually you post more thought provoking stuff but this was so light-weight I almost did not waste time to reply to these talking-points... usually made in a one way conversation.

It's Sat. so I don't have much time but let me take a few swats.

1. I can do two things at once... like watch them steal my money "and" watch them change laws dealing with social issues.

2. Getting a plumber license is not all that easy in most states (especially where Unions rule)so that was a poor comparison

3.If we followed your logic we would be marrying any assortment of peoples.... blood related or not.

4. These changes DO EFFECT us all for good or bad. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for school programs

to teach my kid the joy and mechanics of Homosexuality when it is against the principles of not only me but

the vast majority of people in the world, the majority of people in this country and contrary to our traditions history and culture?

Gay Marriage opens the door to bring all this into the class room. (lets look at the progress so far.)

http://massresistance.com/media/video/brainwashing.html

5.The State has a compelling interest to preserve and promote efforts which benefit our society.

Thats why strip clubs can be zoned away from schools and churches, home owners get tax breaks and the States funds Gym class and sex-ed...... We are left with debating which ones we want... not IF it's the States roll.

6. Pretending Religion has no place in our laws or Government is laughable, take a trip to Washington DC and you will see it reflected on every building and inscribed at nearly every Memorial.

(You can also check your money, I think it is still inscribed there too). If you need specific examples, let me know.

There is a reason the Libertarian Party never gets past first base in national elections.

You guys are rejected by both the Right and the Left, your core is made up of a few Post Smoking Moderates who only care about one thing....Getting Govt off your back and.... doing drugs (legally).

IF you guys were not so extreme (in your own way) you probable could field a national candidate but legalizing

drugs and prostitution and throwing poor old Grandmothers off the Govt dole is not (in my opinion) ever going to get you much traction in the mainstream of politics.

... But by the time Bush/ Obama get finished running us aground, who knows.

[Marina-Del 10]

6. Pretending Religion has no place in our laws or Government is laughable, take a trip to Washington DC and you will see it reflected on every building and inscribed at nearly every Memorial.

(You can also check your money, I think it is still inscribed there too). If you need specific examples, let me know.

Several things:

1. I don't agree with what you said above either. You are right, religion is reflected on every building and our money, ect. But that's not right either. The FIRST amendment says that we have freedom of religion, so placing religion on things like buildings and money that are there for all of our citizens is wrong as well. Even so, while that may be wrong according to our constitution and our government continues to do it, that doesn't mean that religion is free to affect other aspects of our government.

2. Matt85 didn't write the article. I'm pretty sure you are aware of that, but toward the end of our rant you seemed to be attacking HIM as opposed to the writer. Matt85 posted the article, but didn't give us *his* personal opinion at all.....yet.

[HappyNathy 0]

To the OP: please post your source as I want to link this piece.

Thanks!

[mRx 16]

1. I can do two things at once... like watch them steal my money "and" watch them change laws dealing with social issues.

One of these issues directly affects you, the other does not.

3.If we followed your logic we would be marrying any assortment of peoples.... blood related or not.

Again, the issue doesn't affect you. That is the heart of the article.

4. These changes DO EFFECT us all for good or bad. Why should my tax dollars go to pay for school programs

to teach my kid the joy and mechanics of Homosexuality when it is against the principles of not only me but

the vast majority of people in the world, the majority of people in this country and contrary to our traditions history and culture?

Gay Marriage opens the door to bring all this into the class room. (lets look at the progress so far.)

http://massresistance.com/media/video/brainwashing.html

You're mixing other State run elements into this. If you don't agree with homosexuality, it doesn't affect me and I respect your belief. Your child is your property until they reach adulthood, therefore, it is your right and responsibility to educate and raise your children as you wish. However, your principled opposition to homosexuality must not be coercively imposed on me. I'm sure they're are plenty of schools that teach the immoralities of homosexuality. You are under no force to have your child attend a school that teaches beliefs that you don't agree with.

The DOE is a joke, and shouldn't be forced upon America. The cartelization of America's education should be abolished; but that's another story for another time.

5.The State has a compelling interest to preserve and promote efforts which benefit our society.

Thats why strip clubs can be zoned away from schools and churches, home owners get tax breaks and the States funds Gym class and sex-ed...... We are left with debating which ones we want... not IF it's the States roll.

Society; I really hate that word. There is no such thing as society. There are only individuals, as only individuals can make decisions. The wants and needs of society cannot be measured, as society is an intangible manifestion. This is what fundamentally separates indivualistic Libertarianism from every other collectivist political ideology.

Hopefully you're starting to see that the government cannot possibly create a social environment that benefits all while harming none.

There is a reason the Libertarian Party never gets past first base in national elections.

You guys are rejected by both the Right and the Left, your core is made up of a few Post Smoking Moderates who only care about one thing....Getting Govt off your back and.... doing drugs (legally).

IF you guys were not so extreme (in your own way) you probable could field a national candidate but legalizing

drugs and prostitution and throwing poor old Grandmothers off the Govt dole is not (in my opinion) ever going to get you much traction in the mainstream of politics.

... But by the time Bush/ Obama get finished running us aground, who knows.

You must not have read many of my posts, Danno.

My principle belief is that people should have the liberty to freely govern themselves, as long as they don't cause any aggression which would harm the ability of another to pursue that same self-governance. A government should be instituted to protect this way of life; not enact laws inhibiting it.

Here is the link to the article.

Link

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “####### fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/th...animal_kingdom/

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “####### fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/th...animal_kingdom/

But no matter how muh ####### fencing and genital massaging they do, at the end of the day, no babies.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “####### fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/th...animal_kingdom/

But no matter how muh ####### fencing and genital massaging they do, at the end of the day, no babies.

They might get some straight stuff on the side, and there are always turkey basters.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “####### fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/th...animal_kingdom/

But no matter how muh ####### fencing and genital massaging they do, at the end of the day, no babies.

They might get some straight stuff on the side, and there are always turkey basters.

Turkey basters.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in “####### fencing,” which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/th...animal_kingdom/

But no matter how muh ####### fencing and genital massaging they do, at the end of the day, no babies.

They might get some straight stuff on the side, and there are always turkey basters.

Turkey basters.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...1&hl=Turkey

[mawilson 2,133]

Gay marriage is not natural as gay couples can't reproduce on their own. If everyone was gay, the human race would cease to exist in one generation. Kinda like mules.

So you're saying that straight marriages are valid because they produce children?

Following your logic, one could argue that infertile couples and old people should be

denied marriage licenses as well. After all, infertile couples and old people can't

reproduce on their own. If everyone was infertile or old, the human race would cease

to exist in one generation.