need advice

[kcoyclay1 98]

I haven't read most of the replies, so sorry if I repeat what others are saying, but I've been there too, confused. My husband used to threaten to return to Morocco many times and it is SO WRONG! Everytime he did that, it took away a piece of me. I believe strongly that yelling divorce everytime something goes wrong is so damaging to a marriage! It is not something that should be thrown around and taken back over and over! I know he's homesick, he's culture shocked, he's having a hard time with the economy, yada, yada, excuses, excuses. But seriously it's no excuse for treating your wife that way! Cultural differences or not....I certainly don't want to be a part of a culture that a SO threatens divorce constantly (not saying that's what Moroccans do but some reply here I read spoke of cultural differences)! I think you should make it clear to him how much it hurts you and your marriage and that next time he treatens it, he better have that plane ticket ready and bag packed!

Good luck. PM me anytime if you want to talk about it. I haven't been around VJ in months (came back after an old friend prompted me to) but I can receive PM's.

sereia, as you say its not good and it should not be done. Both you and confused have Morocco spouses that respond the same way in an argument. They apparently resort to fleeing at the first sign of "rain". As you say, make it clear to him how much it hurts you and your marriage. I feel your frustration and it is validated. Truth is, you should not be looking at the door every time you have an argument. It's a weak way for him to respond because he should be there to support you and not be ready to leave after every argument. I know it hurts and it makes you question his love and I can understand that. Now how do you work this thing out? Only you guys knows what works in your relationship without adding fuel to the fire. Maybe calling his bluff might be one way, then again it might not.

Let them know in a kind manner after you have composed yourselves, that if they are not prepared to walk then they should stop throwing those words around, because it not only hurt but cause you to lose trust and confidence in them that they will be there through thick or thin.. but try not to match anger with anger as it never solves anything. Be firm but not aggressive.

All the best to both of you.

Edited May 8, 2009 by kcoyclay1

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I counsel mixed culture couples on the side and one thing that is a common thread no matter what the culture is that there will be ocassional disagreements between otherwise rational people. The important thing is not that you argue, but HOW you argue. Another thing that is a constant is that hostile interactions take on a pattern; X happens, then Y, then Z. People rarely pay attention to the fact that their fights follow a pattern based on your individual reactions, but you need to if you're going to make your arguments more constructive and less hurtful.

When asked for advice, I recommend an assertiveness training technique that works wonders to de-escalate confrontations. I've had couples do this with marvelous results the first time they try it. I don't have enough information to know your specific pattern, but whatever it is, if you do not react the same way as you always do, it will change.

For example, when he gets upset, calmly tell him that you are not going to fight with him, but will wait until you can both talk rationally. Then, don't say anything more, but repeat that like a broken record if he continues to try to bait you. The first time is the hardest, but stand your ground. He cant fight without you. When its clear that you are not going to participate, he will cease to retaliate, and you can get past the tension faster, and down to the real issue.

Fights can only grow when couples feed off of eash other's anxieties. One of you must resist the impulse to respond with more of the same in order for the fighting to disapate and allow you to create more productive ways of dealing with the underlying issues.

I hope that helps.

[Wantedtobelieve 4]

I counsel mixed culture couples on the side and one thing that is a common thread no matter what the culture is that there will be ocassional disagreements between otherwise rational people. The important thing is not that you argue, but HOW you argue. Another thing that is a constant is that hostile interactions take on a pattern; X happens, then Y, then Z. People rarely pay attention to the fact that their fights follow a pattern based on your individual reactions, but you need to if you're going to make your arguments more constructive and less hurtful.

When asked for advice, I recommend an assertiveness training technique that works wonders to de-escalate confrontations. I've had couples do this with marvelous results the first time they try it. I don't have enough information to know your specific pattern, but whatever it is, if you do not react the same way as you always do, it will change.

For example, when he gets upset, calmly tell him that you are not going to fight with him, but will wait until you can both talk rationally. Then, don't say anything more, but repeat that like a broken record if he continues to try to bait you. The first time is the hardest, but stand your ground. He cant fight without you. When its clear that you are not going to participate, he will cease to retaliate, and you can get past the tension faster, and down to the real issue.

Fights can only grow when couples feed off of eash other's anxieties. One of you must resist the impulse to respond with more of the same in order for the fighting to disapate and allow you to create more productive ways of dealing with the underlying issues.

I hope that helps.

As a couselor, what do you advise a person when the spouse gets mad and throws something? I wasn't raised that way, can't stand it. Last time, he kicked something that went all over the walls of the house. Advice???? He says that is just the way he is, and that's it. Of course, I always "push him" which is BS.

[Cheryl & Medo 3]

Hummm I have heard that I will just go back to Egypt...Till I said then go ahead and go.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I counsel mixed culture couples on the side and one thing that is a common thread no matter what the culture is that there will be ocassional disagreements between otherwise rational people. The important thing is not that you argue, but HOW you argue. Another thing that is a constant is that hostile interactions take on a pattern; X happens, then Y, then Z. People rarely pay attention to the fact that their fights follow a pattern based on your individual reactions, but you need to if you're going to make your arguments more constructive and less hurtful.

When asked for advice, I recommend an assertiveness training technique that works wonders to de-escalate confrontations. I've had couples do this with marvelous results the first time they try it. I don't have enough information to know your specific pattern, but whatever it is, if you do not react the same way as you always do, it will change.

For example, when he gets upset, calmly tell him that you are not going to fight with him, but will wait until you can both talk rationally. Then, don't say anything more, but repeat that like a broken record if he continues to try to bait you. The first time is the hardest, but stand your ground. He cant fight without you. When its clear that you are not going to participate, he will cease to retaliate, and you can get past the tension faster, and down to the real issue.

Fights can only grow when couples feed off of eash other's anxieties. One of you must resist the impulse to respond with more of the same in order for the fighting to disapate and allow you to create more productive ways of dealing with the underlying issues.

I hope that helps.

As a couselor, what do you advise a person when the spouse gets mad and throws something? I wasn't raised that way, can't stand it. Last time, he kicked something that went all over the walls of the house. Advice???? He says that is just the way he is, and that's it. Of course, I always "push him" which is BS.

When fights get physical, your safety is numero uno. That type of behavior is manipulative and a non-negotiable. Get out of range and get help. Call the police, if you have to. It may be the way he is now, but if he stays that way, he should not be allowed to stay with you. You have to give your permission to be his victim.

[venusfire503 54]

I think that sometimes they get overwhelmed and maybe for that moment, think that the only way to deal with stress is to get away from it. Think about it - everyone at least once in their lives runs into a stressful situation that is too much to deal with and we wonder if we'll ever make it through. Some people commit suicide, some turn to drugs, alcohol, or some other harmful behavior. Some blow their top. Some actually walk away from the situation. I'm sure sometimes we think of it, too, if only for a moment. But we're already in our home country, and most of us I think have learned to keep the thoughts to ourselves. These MENA men's mistake is saying it out loud and emotionally hurting us.

I really believe that my husband sometimes projects/transfers his frustration onto me because the marriage IS the reason he's here dealing with all the stress he didn't have before. Not that I had any idea (neither did he) how challenging it would be, and it's not like I purposely put him into a stressful situation, but I am the reason he's in it.

I had two choices in my mind - deal with things they way they were, or figure out the reason for his behavior and try to help him deal with it. When I take a moment to realize how much he's going through, and remember how much he means to me (and how wonderful he is at least 95% of the time), it's easier to make the decision to put forth more effort. I read something once about how we can't change someone else's behavior, but we can change the way we react. As someone else on this thread mentioned, it takes two people to form the pattern. We might not think it's 'fair' because it's not our 'fault' or our behavior that is the problem, and that HE is the one who should change. That may or not be true, but it's not going to make anything better. If you love your man and want to stop this cycle, the only thing you can really do is creatively think of things to do differently. Then it's all up to him how he will react. If things get better, it's well worth the effort. If not, then you can decide if you want to try something else, keep tolerating it the way it is, or send him on his way. A good relationship takes work, and PLENTY of patience.

I've tried different things. The first, and least effective, was to try to talk with him when he was being unreasonable. That almost always escalated things, especially since I tended to get upset as well. Even when I stayed calm, the more I talked, the more overwhelming it was and the more upset he got. I think he needs time to think things through, and who can do that with someone talking? I tried ignoring him, which is unbelieveably hard for me, and I wasn't very successful at it. Now I try (but I admit I sometimes resort to doing stupid things - I'm far from perfect) to make a calm statement like "no, you don't hate me, you love me. I love you too. Let me know when you calm down and are ready to talk" and then walking away. It will take a few tries to find the right thing to say. I sometimes push it by giving him a quick kiss on the head (he's almost always sitting at the computer, staring at the screen) before I walk away. Yes, I often then go upstairs and cry to myself. At the time, I usually wonder if I can do this any longer. I'm learning that if I leave him alone and don't make nasty comments back or keep talking, it blows over quickly, and he will apologize. I repeat that it really hurts me when he says he's going to leave. He feels bad about it, and he is getting better about not doing it. Things have definitely improved. Now he's more likely to stay reasonable. I'm impressed with his progress sometimes. Also, I've learned to sense when he's getting overwhelmed and ask him if he's ok or whatever to try to avoid problems. We also both try to get him away before he gets overwhelmed. If he doesn't find some excuse to go run errands or whatever, I'll find something I "need" at the store, and he's almost always willing to go. I've even gotten to the point where I can tell him that I can tell he's getting crabby and maybe he can go shopping or to see a movie or something. The first few times, it didn't go well, but now he'll usually agree with me. Oh, and sometimes I find it easier to go somewhere instead, or find something to keep me busy. If I leave him alone when he's starting to seem frustrated, and just check in with him every once in a while, he'll usually miss me and come looking for me.

It's not easy, but with lots of love and the support of friends, it gets easier. Try to do what you can (depending on what you're willing to do) and see if there is improvement. Saying mean things is unacceptable, but sometimes we can choose to accept some things temporarily. Dealing with physical abuse, for example, is a different story. My SO doesn't do anything like that, and I wouldn't put up with it if he did.

Best of luck!

venusfire

[kcoyclay1 98]

I counsel mixed culture couples on the side and one thing that is a common thread no matter what the culture is that there will be ocassional disagreements between otherwise rational people. The important thing is not that you argue, but HOW you argue. Another thing that is a constant is that hostile interactions take on a pattern; X happens, then Y, then Z. People rarely pay attention to the fact that their fights follow a pattern based on your individual reactions, but you need to if you're going to make your arguments more constructive and less hurtful.

When asked for advice, I recommend an assertiveness training technique that works wonders to de-escalate confrontations. I've had couples do this with marvelous results the first time they try it. I don't have enough information to know your specific pattern, but whatever it is, if you do not react the same way as you always do, it will change.

For example, when he gets upset, calmly tell him that you are not going to fight with him, but will wait until you can both talk rationally. Then, don't say anything more, but repeat that like a broken record if he continues to try to bait you. The first time is the hardest, but stand your ground. He cant fight without you. When its clear that you are not going to participate, he will cease to retaliate, and you can get past the tension faster, and down to the real issue.

Fights can only grow when couples feed off of eash other's anxieties. One of you must resist the impulse to respond with more of the same in order for the fighting to disapate and allow you to create more productive ways of dealing with the underlying issues.

I hope that helps.

As a couselor, what do you advise a person when the spouse gets mad and throws something? I wasn't raised that way, can't stand it. Last time, he kicked something that went all over the walls of the house. Advice???? He says that is just the way he is, and that's it. Of course, I always "push him" which is BS.

When fights get physical, your safety is numero uno. That type of behavior is manipulative and a non-negotiable. Get out of range and get help. Call the police, if you have to. It may be the way he is now, but if he stays that way, he should not be allowed to stay with you. You have to give your permission to be his victim.

Listen to Barza Woman she has great advice. :thumbs:

[bhajishah 4]

"say ok" and call Taxi to airport. put his things on the curb. Doood dont know CARAAZY until he has run across me!! so tell him back off the threats unless he means them!! Wot a big baby puzz girlie boy you have

[Nagishkaw 510]

Wot a big baby puzz girlie boy you have

That was un necessary, since you do not know the OP's husband personally. The advice ( or opinion ) you gave should have been left in the comic books. As long as he gets his mail at the marital home, unless she begins eviction proceedings, or files for divorce and asks the courts for a restraining order then legally she cannot just

'put his things on the curb'. She may begin by checking the laws regarding this in her State.

[confused2009 0]

thanks for all the advice. The thing is he is frustrated with finding a good job, He always says you are so lucky cause i have a very good job. I think it makes him feel not ok that i make more money then him. In morocco the man always takes care of the family and he wants to do that too. The problem is i can also see when he is not ok sometimes he talks about it but most the time i ask if you are ok and he says he is fine. I can see he is not ok, i feel bad for him. But to me that is still no reason to threaten to leave the person you say you love cause you can not find a good job. I told him the economy is very hard right now and if you do not have degree or experience it is hard to get good job. I told him he should go to school we were working on getting his transcripts from his family. Then he just quit doing that. He did find a little better job then he has right now but they will not give him full time so he is working both jobs. In normal economic he would have easy time getting better job cause he has been at same job for 19 months. But since there are so many people out of work its is so much harder. He said this morning before he left for work that he thinks he wants to go back to school. He feels he should work alot of hours and support us and i should wotk part- time. I love him very much i know he loves me just one problem the threats to leave. I too try to calmly explain what i said that he misunderstood. It does not seem to help at all. I try to talk to him and he gets more mad. I guess maybe i should try to just say one thing and give him time to cool down. He says it hurts his heart when he sees me cry. That is why i do not understand he knows him threatening to leave almost always makes me cry. He knows how much it hurts me. We have to start process for 10 year green card. The other day a said if he wanted to do the process he said yes. Well you never ask what we have to do or is there anything i can help you with. His threat to leave is using that money to go home. He is wonderful man just one issue that hurts me alot not sure if i can live with that or not. I would hate to see our marriage end cause of something i think is stupid. He worries so much about getting fired. One job he applied for like a year after he got here had interview and lady said his english was not good. He says he is afraid people will laugh at him cause of his english. His english is alot better then then but he still thinks about that. If i had a law degree and was working at fast food place i would not feel that great about myself either. I am sorry it took so long to post i am doing this without his knowledge which i do not feel right about either. But just needed some advice from other women in my situation or have had this problem. People most time fight about money we never do or about cheating or lying and we don't do either of those things too. We are alot alike considering we come from 2 different countries. The thing is there is alot of stress here where morocco is more calm and relaxing life. I have been there 2 times and it was very wonderful time. It just hard to be rational when he says that about leaving its like i knife in my heart. I am not so worried about the financial part cause we are back to 40 hours at work we were working 32 hours a week for awhile. So i am going to try very hard if happens again not to cry just say i love you and i know you love me and we can talk when you calm down and give him time to cool down. I really hope i can do that lol and i hope it works. As for abuse i know he would never hurt me. I think he does know what to say in fight so he just says that. He use to threaten to go to bar but he knows that does not work cause he does not drink lol. Marriages are alot of work but i want to try to save ours cause i will never find a man like this.

take care

darlene

[kcoyclay1 98]

"say ok" and call Taxi to airport. put his things on the curb. Doood dont know CARAAZY until he has run across me!! so tell him back off the threats unless he means them!! Wot a big baby puzz girlie boy you have

askfruitcakelady, wow!! and I mean wow!!! Your answer is OUT OF LINE. What right do you have calling her husband "a big baby puzz girlie boy" . I truly pray to God Almighty that your marriage will be divorce-proof and that you will NEVER EVER IN THIS LIFETIME HAVE A DISAGREEMENT.

It seem as if you had a relationship problem in the past and you are venting and please take note that I said it seem as if. Can you imagine being raped and feeling violated and someone said to you "you big baby get over it?" or can you imagine experiencing a traumatic event like double murder in your family and someone calling you a big baby because you are depressed? That's the equivalent of what you are doing. You are really out of line and I am saying it like it is. We are not here to judge anyone and I am sure confused2009 didn't need anyone going off on her husband and call him names because of what he said. We are not divorce lawyers and based on the recommendations you are giving I can see that there is a great chance of your marriage ending up..........

Peace out.

Edited May 12, 2009 by kcoyclay1