Poland Visitor Visa

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am seeking advice and help in getting my SO from Poland a US visitor visa while we go through the K1 process. She applied back in October but was denied. During the interview she was timid and was not allowed to show documentation that shows deep roots in Poland. I am going to visit her April 10 through the 18th and want to try again.

My SO has 2 children which will stay behind (on her visit), She owns her own car and flat (fully paid for), has all her family there, a bank account with a reasonable amount on deposit. She currently does not have a job, but does have a company that would say she was working there (if needed) All of this was documented back in October but she was not allowed to even show this evidence.

In October, we were taking a cruise in the Caribbean and had the tickets already booked. In the end, after being denied, I changed our cruise to the Med. She has also traveled to see me in Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic and both trips she returned to Poland.

I would very much like her to visit the US before the K1 to help her in many ways... see the schools the kids will attend (meet with the teachers), see how we live here, which is very different as I am sure you all know... etc...

I know and she knows she will return and do the K1 process... how to convince the Embassy is the question at hand.

I am going to try to go to her interview this time and see if I can do something...

Any and all advice is welcome

Seriously, well I was serious before but a bit tongue in cheek, the schools are better here in terms of physical property, class size, and general facilities. Much better chairs and desks and fun things like rocket building and woodworking class, but the education is of lower quality. If her kids do well in school there (grades) they will probably be bumped up one or two grades here. Our 13 year old was bumped up from 8th to 10th grade after 4 weeks and is getting straight A's now. The principal said (yesterday) they could probably bump him up to 11th grade and just let him take the 11th grade final exams, but graduating a 14 year old from high school would accomplish...what? He didn't speak English at all until one year ago when we started him with a tutor 3 days a week in Ukraine. He was started in an ESL class here, taken out of it after moving to 10th grade and gets A's in his regular English classes in 10th grade and is near the top of the class! He is far ahead, in English, to most of the native speakers in his class. And he isn't even what I would call a "dedicated" student compared to his 17 year old brother, the one in his second year of college!

But he was happy he doesn't have to clean the school building after class, with the other students, like he did in Ukraine. We have PAID custodians to do that!

there are many children from the ukraine and poland in my school district. contrarily to your experience, many of these kids are held back due to the language barrier topped with learning disabilities; however, some excel. it's a natural diversity. if your kid is intelligent and hard-working in their native country, but with limited to no english, they'll catch up- but i don't see how it's possible to throw them ahead a grade level when they can't speak the language.

Well he is the only "foreign" student in our district, but it is admittedly very small. He spoke English, just not so well. 9 months of 3 times a week tutoring plus the very limited English he had in school in Ukraine, plus some help from his mother and brother who both speak English very well. He learned very quickly and in fact the teachers were at a loss to "teach" him anything he hadn't already been taught so they called us in about 4 weeks into the school year and asked our permission to bump him up provided he passed all the exams. He Ace'd the 8th grade exams, so they gave him the 9th grade exams, Ace'd 'em. They put him in 10th grade and dropped the ESL English class. He completed 10th grade Geometry by semester break and went on to 11th grade Algebra 2. He will complete that in less than a semester. He does have two extra English classes in place of study halls but other than that a straight up curriculum. Now, he is no more than a "normal" kid in our opinion, and not nearly the deicated student his older brother is. He is no dummy and he is hard working.

My comments were qualified by "if her children do well in Poland...." which our son certainly did well in Ukraine, then there is no reason for them not to excel here. At any rate, that would not and could not be determined by her meeting with the teachers, that is a question for time to tell. My experience is limited, admittedly, but a good student in Poland should be a good student here. My comments were meant as an assurance to the OP and his fiancee that her children can and should do well here if they are good students.

so now the OP has 2 sides of a story he wasn't looking for...

And what? Someone is injured? I have also addressed his original questions far more than anyone else using the personal experience I have in the matter. Petitioners bringing children are often interested in the educational challenges their children will face. If not today, maybe tomorrow, and lest we forget these posts are read, and searched by many VJ members looking for information on a variety of issues. His fiancee wants to come and, among other things, look at the schools and meet the teachers. A perfectly natural desire for a mother from a foreign country, so maybe a little first hand experience can be passed on to her. D'ya think?

The only posts which are generally useless are ones where one poster berates another for giving what they feel is useless information.

[Richard-Joanna 1]

As I said, I am looking for all comments, so I really didn't mind hearing about how the children were adapting and how they were doing in school... thank you for your insight... it is a concern of mine that my new children acclimate well and have a good life... I am doing many things to accomplish that as well... e.g. tutoring, special ESOL program... and frankly trying to get them here after school lets out in Poland and before it starts here so that they have as much time as possible to get used to ALL the newness in their lives. Most everything regarding the children have been thought through, that does not mean I am not looking for other insights from other parents.. as I am sure we have missed things..

However, the insight I really need is what I (we) can to to help get her a tourist visa.

Thanks everyone for ALL your feedback... it really is appreciated.

Richard

[GiGii 4]

Garyand Alla is providing nothing but a whole bunch of nonsense info.

Its not just the $131 for the interview, its all the denial stamps in her passport. The rule of thumb is that if you've been denied once, you wait a min of 1 year to reapply, or if your circumstances have changed dramatically. Having a flat, car & savings account is not enough. What ties her to Poland? How many people live in the US illegally and have homes abroad that they've left for family to manage? MANY.

Her not having a job and kids to support is what is raising a brow for the CO. Having a long term job/contract is what they are looking for. How about a letter from an employer stating that she's due to return to work at XX date upon her vacation to the US.

Sure some COs see the case background forms and automatically have "denied" in their thoughts, but applying many times isnt going to change that, its going to look weird why all those denials, and yet she still keeps on trying so darn hard, when the I129F will be done soon.

Denial stamps in the passport dont have a bearing on receiving the K1, but surely more than 1 will require some explanation.

Don't worry about school, as long as there is an ESL program they will help the kids. Depends on how determined you are to help them with homework, etc. I work with a couple of people that came here when they were 10-12, they learned english, got degrees and barely have an accent. Its not the end of the world.

[Richard-Joanna 1]

Well, I have decided to write my congressman and see if they can be of any service in helping get a tourist visa. I am not going to hold my breath that they even respond let alone help... but I can't sit back and do nothing... equity is all I am looking for here.

As for ties to Poland... i think home ownership, having children that are staying behind, a car, money in the bank and all of her family there are pretty substantial ties. Having a job is also... but the truth is, from my point of view, IF someone was intending to immigrate NONE of these would stop them. So it seems to be a sense of best judgment. She has traveled in and out of Poland with me and has returned each time... more evidence that she would return again? If you add all the small pieces of evidence, the conclusion (to me) is it a pretty safe bet she would return.

And maybe it is just my "American" pride or maybe even my Male EGO... but if I wanted to go somewhere and was denied... I would apply again.. and again... and again... For the US Embassy to say that she cannot come to take a cruise to the Caribbean that leaves out of the port of Miami seems ridiculous to me. I know these are just my thoughts and I am venting... but this really frosts my bottom.

She is a stay at home Mom so there is no chance of supplying a letter from an employer.

As for denial stamps in her passport, she does not have any denial stamps or any reference of applying for her visa.

[payxibka 10,044]

A congressperson CANNOT overide a CO's decision on a visa that has been determined the alien is not eligible for.

read the DOS position on visa denials... particularly the proof of strong ties... it is quite clear. The alien MUST qualify on there own without assistance or any assurances from a USC.

"Visa applicants must qualify for the visa according to their own circumstances, not on the basis of an American sponsor's assurance."

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/denials/denials_1361.html

Edited April 1, 2009 by payxibka

[Richard-Joanna 1]

I have read this page, thank you.. this is exactly my point... Strong ties... it is very, very subjective... the way I see it, she has very strong ties. Unfortunately, my point of view is NOT relevant

Please note, that I am not asking for my congressman to override anything. I am asking for equity... and if, for example, my congressman wrote us a letter that said.. "Please take some time and LOOK at the evidence submitted" I could be happy with something like this.

Although not in politics for a living. I do deal with it in my business extensively and have even thought about asking for a few favors but have opted not to do that for a variety of reasons. Maybe I am smoking dope.... to think that something like this would help... but in my line of work things like this are done all the time and generally have a very positive effect....

[payxibka 10,044]

Immigration law delegates the responsibility for issuance or refusal of visas to consular officers overseas. They have the final say on all visa cases. By regulation the U.S. Department of State has authority to review consular decisions, but this authority is limited to the interpretation of law, as contrasted to determinations of facts. The question at issue in such denials, whether an applicant possesses the required residence abroad, is a factual one. Therefore, it falls exclusively within the authority of consular officers at our Foreign Service posts to resolve. An applicant can influence the post to change a prior visa denial only through the presentation of new convincing evidence of strong ties.

[Richard-Joanna 1]

"An applicant can influence the post to change a prior visa denial only through the presentation of new convincing evidence of strong ties."

Ok... here is my point... In my SO case... she was not allowed to present evidence. She was not allowed to speak. The CO looked at her 156 application, said... NO JOB, NO VISA!

I would like to believe that IF she were allowed to show her deed to her flat, her children' birth certificates, bank statements etc that the outcome may have been different... or at the very least thought about with some logic and process.

I hope you understand that I am not arguing law... I am arguing equity and there is a difference.

[payxibka 10,044]

"An applicant can influence the post to change a prior visa denial only through the presentation of new convincing evidence of strong ties."

Ok... here is my point... In my SO case... she was not allowed to present evidence. She was not allowed to speak. The CO looked at her 156 application, said... NO JOB, NO VISA!

I would like to believe that IF she were allowed to show her deed to her flat, her children' birth certificates, bank statements etc that the outcome may have been different... or at the very least thought about with some logic and process.

I hope you understand that I am not arguing law... I am arguing equity and there is a difference.

My guess would be that in the CO's eyes... there is no amount of NEW evidence that she could provide that would be compelling enough to overide the NO JOB....

[amberdima 6]

I am seeking advice and help in getting my SO from Poland a US visitor visa while we go through the K1 process. She applied back in October but was denied. During the interview she was timid and was not allowed to show documentation that shows deep roots in Poland. I am going to visit her April 10 through the 18th and want to try again.

My SO has 2 children which will stay behind (on her visit), She owns her own car and flat (fully paid for), has all her family there, a bank account with a reasonable amount on deposit. She currently does not have a job, but does have a company that would say she was working there (if needed) All of this was documented back in October but she was not allowed to even show this evidence.

In October, we were taking a cruise in the Caribbean and had the tickets already booked. In the end, after being denied, I changed our cruise to the Med. She has also traveled to see me in Punta Cana in the Dominican Republic and both trips she returned to Poland.

I would very much like her to visit the US before the K1 to help her in many ways... see the schools the kids will attend (meet with the teachers), see how we live here, which is very different as I am sure you all know... etc...

I know and she knows she will return and do the K1 process... how to convince the Embassy is the question at hand.

I am going to try to go to her interview this time and see if I can do something...

Any and all advice is welcome

Seriously, well I was serious before but a bit tongue in cheek, the schools are better here in terms of physical property, class size, and general facilities. Much better chairs and desks and fun things like rocket building and woodworking class, but the education is of lower quality. If her kids do well in school there (grades) they will probably be bumped up one or two grades here. Our 13 year old was bumped up from 8th to 10th grade after 4 weeks and is getting straight A's now. The principal said (yesterday) they could probably bump him up to 11th grade and just let him take the 11th grade final exams, but graduating a 14 year old from high school would accomplish...what? He didn't speak English at all until one year ago when we started him with a tutor 3 days a week in Ukraine. He was started in an ESL class here, taken out of it after moving to 10th grade and gets A's in his regular English classes in 10th grade and is near the top of the class! He is far ahead, in English, to most of the native speakers in his class. And he isn't even what I would call a "dedicated" student compared to his 17 year old brother, the one in his second year of college!

But he was happy he doesn't have to clean the school building after class, with the other students, like he did in Ukraine. We have PAID custodians to do that!

there are many children from the ukraine and poland in my school district. contrarily to your experience, many of these kids are held back due to the language barrier topped with learning disabilities; however, some excel. it's a natural diversity. if your kid is intelligent and hard-working in their native country, but with limited to no english, they'll catch up- but i don't see how it's possible to throw them ahead a grade level when they can't speak the language.

Well he is the only "foreign" student in our district, but it is admittedly very small. He spoke English, just not so well. 9 months of 3 times a week tutoring plus the very limited English he had in school in Ukraine, plus some help from his mother and brother who both speak English very well. He learned very quickly and in fact the teachers were at a loss to "teach" him anything he hadn't already been taught so they called us in about 4 weeks into the school year and asked our permission to bump him up provided he passed all the exams. He Ace'd the 8th grade exams, so they gave him the 9th grade exams, Ace'd 'em. They put him in 10th grade and dropped the ESL English class. He completed 10th grade Geometry by semester break and went on to 11th grade Algebra 2. He will complete that in less than a semester. He does have two extra English classes in place of study halls but other than that a straight up curriculum. Now, he is no more than a "normal" kid in our opinion, and not nearly the deicated student his older brother is. He is no dummy and he is hard working.

My comments were qualified by "if her children do well in Poland...." which our son certainly did well in Ukraine, then there is no reason for them not to excel here. At any rate, that would not and could not be determined by her meeting with the teachers, that is a question for time to tell. My experience is limited, admittedly, but a good student in Poland should be a good student here. My comments were meant as an assurance to the OP and his fiancee that her children can and should do well here if they are good students.

so now the OP has 2 sides of a story he wasn't looking for...

And what? Someone is injured? I have also addressed his original questions far more than anyone else using the personal experience I have in the matter. Petitioners bringing children are often interested in the educational challenges their children will face. If not today, maybe tomorrow, and lest we forget these posts are read, and searched by many VJ members looking for information on a variety of issues. His fiancee wants to come and, among other things, look at the schools and meet the teachers. A perfectly natural desire for a mother from a foreign country, so maybe a little first hand experience can be passed on to her. D'ya think?

The only posts which are generally useless are ones where one poster berates another for giving what they feel is useless information.

my point was- that you shared what your children experienced. i shared what i have seen a dozen + students experience. then, the OP stated that his main concern at this point was the visitor visa, not the future school issues he might encounter. that ended that.

i thought both of our posts were valuable. however, i never negated what you said, yet you felt compelled to justify your original statement which was unneccessary because no one said you were giving poor information.

[Richard-Joanna 1]

Well, I just got off the phone with my congressional office. They said they would be happy to write the US Embassy in Warsaw on my SO behalf asking them to look at all the evidence provided and to give her all the latitude under the law.

This is all I can ask... if they really look at the evidence and still deny her, although being really upset, at least I did everything I could to assure a 'fair' interview on her behalf.

Interesting sidebar to this is that while speaking to the woman at my Congressman's office that deals with DOS and USCIS she said a few things that I found interesting...

For example... on form DS-156 that needs to be completed by my SO this woman said just remember to check box 36. Box 36 reads, 36. "Has Anyone Ever Filed an Immigrant Visa Petition on Your Behalf?" and I said, a K1 is a 'non-immigrant' visa. She said, but your SO is intending to move here... to which I said... yes, but not under an immigrant visa and not under the tourist visa... The bottom line to these things she mentioned and we debated was that she didn't think there was a snowballs chance that she would get the tourist visa.

To which I said, all I ask is that someone look at this with some sense of objectivity.

Which I am hopeful they will. I leave for Poland next Thursday and I will post the results of all this around the 14th of April since I think that will be the date of her interview.

Richard

[GiGii 4]

As for ties to Poland... i think home ownership, having children that are staying behind, a car, money in the bank and all of her family there are pretty substantial ties. Having a job is also... but the truth is, from my point of view, IF someone was intending to immigrate NONE of these would stop them. So it seems to be a sense of best judgment. She has traveled in and out of Poland with me and has returned each time... more evidence that she would return again? If you add all the small pieces of evidence, the conclusion (to me) is it a pretty safe bet she would return.

As for denial stamps in her passport, she does not have any denial stamps or any reference of applying for her visa.

I dont think those are substantial ties, and apparently neither did the CO. You can have a home abroad and live elsewhere, correct? Poland is notorious for a family member going to the US or UK and never returning cause they found a better life. Take a look at Chicago or NY.

How did she not get a denial stamp after her first tourist visa attempt? Odd.

The problem with applying again and again, is not just the waste of money, its that the CO becomes biased. If the first time she was shown not to have ties, the second time she returns they'll ask "what changed since the last time you were here" and she'll say nothing, and boom another denial. CO's seem to have their pms days, and approve/deny just based on looks too. All of eastern europe has had that fate.

The term "substantial ties" is so opinionated, that is the reason people who get turned away do, cause nearly everything the CO didnt like can fall in that category. Leaving Poland & coming back from a vacation proves little. If she traveled to Australia (where I believe she'd need a visa) and return, maybe some tiny proof. Going to Carribbean on vacation is nothing, cause no one would want to immigrate there. Traveling over Europe where no visa is required also doesnt show proof.

Her being the stay at home mom has the top risk of immigration intent, hence the denials.

I think it would be best to wait out the K1 in my opinion. Go work with your congressmen to allow her country to be in the VWP, I believe its the only EU member without VWP status.

[Richard-Joanna 1]

GiGi,

First... I want to move to a Caribbean Island... In fact I have been working towards that for the last 10 years. Who would not want THIS for the view from the backyard?

I can't disagree with most of your statements IF you are a CO and prone to denying applicants.

The denial stamp apparently went on some form the CO had, presumably the DS-156 form, but that is just a guess on my part.

We have an interview scheduled on April 15th (TAX DAY, how ironic) So, we'll just have to wait and see...

Maybe I am just stubborn... but I just can't sit idly by while this happens to her, not as long as I can do something. If we have to wait for the K1, so be it, but I am going to try.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Richard

[iLoveAPolishGirl 0]

Well, I have no idea of what her chances are, but just wanted to respond to this comment.....

A "marrying age, working age" single woman from Eastern Europe/FSU has half the chance of a snowball in hell to get a tourist visa.

um, my (now) fiancee had absolutely no problem getting a B-2 visa last year. However, she does have a job (3 jobs actually ) She had a very short, friendly interview in Cracow and was approved in perhaps 5 min.

dvc

[Anastassia 0]

I know the case where somebody got tourist visa in Poland after congressman's intervention, but this person was not in K-1 process.

I am from Poland and given who was approved and who was denied a tourist visa I would say it's rather a lottery. People with much stronger ties were denied. To me $120,000 income in Poland is a VERY strong tie, but maybe this CO thought that person was coming to US to work illegally, who knows. Also owning a flat in Poland means nothing because in certain cases people bought them from the government for $2,000 so it's really hard to tell who had money and who just lucked out.

iLoveAPolishGirl - congratulations on her visa, but I would be very concerned crossing the border - it's where even those with VWP are denied entry trying to enter USA while waiting for K-1 visa.