Since when

[rebeccajo 14]

... and per mox lets all just be the bigger person and drop the banter. I will follow up in the next few days and monitor things and see what is really the case and not the case.

As a site issue, my suggestion is that if a "person" or person's behavior is the issue, take it to the moderators or the Captain. Don't post it in public.

Hope you've got your mirror out.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

please drop the back and forth or take the banter to PM. Thanks. It does not help or further this topic.

[rebeccajo 14]

... and per mox lets all just be the bigger person and drop the banter. I will follow up in the next few days and monitor things and see what is really the case and not the case.

Give me a break.

You've got about two years of written history if you care to take the time.

Pay particular attention to any thread between Push and a woman. Kezzie, Mermaid, myself....any.

please drop the back and forth or take the banter to PM. Thanks. It does not help or further this topic.

I've tried that. All I got told was if I didn't like what he posts, too bad.

Oh....I also got told that he pitied my husband.

Nice.

Edited March 21, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

... and per mox lets all just be the bigger person and drop the banter. I will follow up in the next few days and monitor things and see what is really the case and not the case.

Give me a break.

You've got about two years of written history if you care to take the time.

Pay particular attention to any thread between Push and a woman. Kezzie, Mermaid, myself....any.

please drop the back and forth or take the banter to PM. Thanks. It does not help or further this topic.

I've tried that. All I got told was if I didn't like it, too bad.

Oh....I also got told that he pitied my husband.

Nice.

I plan to read old stuff and new a like. Basically I have people on both sides saying the other side it at fault. It is prudent for me to read both old AND new.

If Push is starting stuff up consistently and making arguments, well that should be clear and then you will be right. Either way it appears you both have feud going on that does not seem to help anyone.

[rebeccajo 14]

Oh, now we have SIDES?

That's infantile.

Are you a grown-up or not? Are you or are you not responsible for the integrity of information on this site? Or is this all just a game for you?

It's the same old-same old BS. Drama promotes traffic and traffic produces revenue.

I'm starting to think you don't give a damn about peoples cases as long as the dollars keep rolling in. The fact that you have a pontificating egomaniac as your 'star expert' just proves it.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

Lol. Dear goodness rj. I simply want to know what is going on. You keep reply to this thread and every time I get a msg on my phone saying "new post". I come back and read and reply.

How on earth do you expect me to "read" anything and make a fair decision on the truth when you keep hitting this thread. I bet you don;t realize but I actually had to come home from a nice meal with someone because all this mess is going on. They were not very happy that I bailed on them but such is life and my responsibility to this site.

I actually "do" want to help but it does take time and reading to do that. I do not read your or anyone else's posts on a daily basis as I spend a lot of time just trying to keep everything else moving behind the scenes as well as launching new tools, fixing potential security items, updating software, cleaning out the timelien database to keep it up to date with no errors, replying to technical problems for members on the site (new registrations, lockouts, TOS issues).

In short, I spend a lot of time trying to help people and while I am not always visible to you on the forums I do indeed have the best interest of the community at heart.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

One more note, there is a reason I do not post a lot of the things I am doing behind the scenes to moderate. I can never make everyone happy. I can only try my best to do what is right int he best interest of keeping VJ a helpful and "welcoming" place to be. The arguing on the forums "despite who is right or wrong" scares new members looking for help. They did not ask for their threads to turn into a battleground for senoir members but I see it happening which is a shame.

w.r.t. to the arguing between the two members central to this tangent... it is possible that both are wrong and both are right. At the most basic level they may simply not like each other... which is just part of life: not everyone likes each other. That said this is not a reason to leave ones civility behind at the expense of keeping the community a helpful and welcoming place for all members.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

Last comment. I am going to follow up (right now in fact) and once I am done PM both you (rj) and push directly. It is not the place (here) for TOS related discussion. That is a private matter. Beyond the TOS is just simply keeping the site a welcoming and helpful place for members. I will direct future conversation via PM. If anyone has suggestions on how to run things smoother though I am always open to critique or suggetions. My skin is pretty thick .

On a side note, illumine today did give a solid suggestion to me. Right now I get "help" requests via PM/email. She told me that I had let several requests by members slip through and not gotten back to them. While I do get about 40 or so PM's or emails a day I certainly want to solve everyones issue or at least give it my best shot at understanding. To that end, I am going to implement a "trouble ticket" system people can submit to so they will get a status on their issue, and I can track what is close and open. This should greatly improve my response to member concerns as well as member satisfaction .

[bakofoil 27]

The arguing on the forums "despite who is right or wrong" scares new members looking for help. They did not ask for their threads to turn into a battleground for senoir members but I see it happening which is a shame.

w.r.t. to the arguing between the two members central to this tangent... it is possible that both are wrong and both are right. At the most basic level they may simply not like each other... which is just part of life: not everyone likes each other. That said this is not a reason to leave ones civility behind at the expense of keeping the community a helpful and welcoming place for all members.

That is precisely why many people, old and new members alike, have stopped or never even begin posting on VJ. Some of this petty bickering is seemingly for 'argument's sake' or to score personal points in what is obviously a very personal disagreement. It is obvious to me there are sides, since the same 'sides' keep throwing pies at one another.

Frankly, it has become tiresome trawling through the threads for relevant information and I very rarely come back here for information. I am glad that my K1 visajourney experience on these boards, at least, was in some way positive as many of those filing with me were extremely supportive and shared some genuinely useful information. The site and some member's commitment to the quality of the site have definitely degenerated in the past year.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

The arguing on the forums "despite who is right or wrong" scares new members looking for help. They did not ask for their threads to turn into a battleground for senoir members but I see it happening which is a shame.

w.r.t. to the arguing between the two members central to this tangent... it is possible that both are wrong and both are right. At the most basic level they may simply not like each other... which is just part of life: not everyone likes each other. That said this is not a reason to leave ones civility behind at the expense of keeping the community a helpful and welcoming place for all members.

That is precisely why many people, old and new members alike, have stopped or never even begin posting on VJ. Some of this petty bickering is seemingly for 'argument's sake' or to score personal points in what is obviously a very personal disagreement. It is obvious to me there are sides, since the same 'sides' keep throwing pies at one another.

Frankly, it has become tiresome trawling through the threads for relevant information and I very rarely come back here for information. I am glad that my K1 visajourney experience on these boards, at least, was in some way positive as many of those filing with me were extremely supportive and shared some genuinely useful information. The site and some member's commitment to the quality of the site have definitely degenerated in the past year.

That is great feedback. Thank you. Do you think it would be helpful for more to stop in from time to time throughout the forums. While I am not a source of any immigration information I would not mind suggesting areas of the site for people to read (replying to the topic). I would also like to welcome new members and "Set the welcoming tone" that VJ should really be all about. Maybe this will help to encourage that atmosphere to be more prevalent if it is at all lacking.

Thoughts?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

All that "welcome" VJ could offer to its members will be for naught, if by pushing out the "welcome mat" the members step into a place where "mis-information" is not addressed, quickly and precisely.

A lot of people do drift away. Some move on with their lives after passing a stage in their journey. Others move away because there's so much information on here that is not factual, that it becomes hard to read and know which way to turn to clean it all up. It seems, of late, one out of 10 threads, nowadays, is useful. 9 are simply timeline checks and OT.

But consider this thought for a moment. If virtually 10% of your VJ inventory addresses the very protocol, procedure, and regulations related to immigration and of that a large percentage of it is false, misleading, or conjectural....just what have you got? What value does this forum provide? Consider that, for a moment, and perhaps the attrition might make a little more sense. I don't think the bickering is the issue. It is that the bickering occurs in the pith of the project. Why? Because some people don't check their facts before posting.

The arguing on the forums "despite who is right or wrong" scares new members looking for help. They did not ask for their threads to turn into a battleground for senoir members but I see it happening which is a shame.

w.r.t. to the arguing between the two members central to this tangent... it is possible that both are wrong and both are right. At the most basic level they may simply not like each other... which is just part of life: not everyone likes each other. That said this is not a reason to leave ones civility behind at the expense of keeping the community a helpful and welcoming place for all members.

That is precisely why many people, old and new members alike, have stopped or never even begin posting on VJ. Some of this petty bickering is seemingly for 'argument's sake' or to score personal points in what is obviously a very personal disagreement. It is obvious to me there are sides, since the same 'sides' keep throwing pies at one another.

Frankly, it has become tiresome trawling through the threads for relevant information and I very rarely come back here for information. I am glad that my K1 visajourney experience on these boards, at least, was in some way positive as many of those filing with me were extremely supportive and shared some genuinely useful information. The site and some member's commitment to the quality of the site have definitely degenerated in the past year.

That is great feedback. Thank you. Do you think it would be helpful for more to stop in from time to time throughout the forums. While I am not a source of any immigration information I would not mind suggesting areas of the site for people to read (replying to the topic). I would also like to welcome new members and "Set the welcoming tone" that VJ should really be all about. Maybe this will help to encourage that atmosphere to be more prevalent if it is at all lacking.

Thoughts?

Edited March 22, 2009 by diadromous mermaid

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

To me (and correct me if I am wrong) the best way to approach things is to promote a sense of community where people can comment and post without feeling like someone will personally attack them on jump on their back. This allows people to post things, correct each other, and generally express ideas in a constructive manner. If someone corrects you then you can learn from that and not take it as an insult. etc.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

Aside from basic immigration issues, VJ offers a community of people that are "in your shoes". I can not stress how important I think it is that we maintain an open arms and non-judgmental environment. So many people face that already simply by their peers or people just not aware of the immigration mess. There are so many stereotypes out there and VJ is hopefully the one place where you can talk even about issues relating to this (and the wait) where you will not feel judged and in fact have people that understand your pain.

[MonkeyJuice 3]

Personally I think this site provides the best visa information. I have researched as much as I can & learned so much with the help of VJ members. It also provided support in the long wait for our NA02 (especially in the 6 month+ plus thread).

But also VJ has also helped take my mind off this long, stressful process by being able to discuss "off topic" matters with people going through the same process. However, these sometimes get argumentative but most of the time are entertaining.

I personally think that RJ has a point. She only answered the original OP's question from an immigration point of view & then the bickering started. Nothing on the thread offended anyone but the people involved, so who cares?

No one actually has to read a whole thread if they can see that arguing is involved. A forum is meant to be a place where personal views can be aired.

I've seen a lot more "taboo" subjects discussed in other threads & nothing has been mentioned.

[Captain Ewok 1,930]

I worry about the "mod" voting too which is why the "praise/report member" voting results are simply used as a moderation tool and not a public mark of "fame/scorn".