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Phil80

TN Travel *before* wedding?

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Filed: Other Country: Canada
Timeline

(I posted this in the AOS forum but this is probably a better spot for it)

So I got engaged after I got my TN visa renewed (with non-immigrant intent). This means that I currently have a TN-1 visa with multiple re-entry. I'm getting married March 21 2009. After which I'll be adjusting my status. I'd like to travel to Canada March 7th and was wondering if its advisable to leave the country and come back in so close to the wedding date.

Basically will it hurt my chances to file for AOS?

Meet in D.C.: Nov 2005

Start Dating: March 2006

Moved down (on TN-1): April 2007

Engaged: July 2008

Married: 03/21/2009

Mailed AOS 04/11/2009

Package received 04/13/2009

Checks Cashed: 4/20/2009

NAO-1: 4/20/2009

Biometrics: 5/9/2009

Advance Parole Issued: 5/20/2009 (Grandma's Funeral, hence why I got it so quickly)

EAD Issued: 5/20/2009

GC Interview: 8/11/2009

Temp GC Issued: 8/11/2009

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Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
Timeline

I would say that the answer is yes as you're entering the country with intent to marry which can make AOS very difficult afterwards as you need to prove that you had no intent to marry/immigrate when you entered the country.

I'm not an expert though, but I'm sure there are others who will come along and help answer your question. I think it would be best if you stayed in the US until after AOS, just to be on the safe side.

October 2006- Met Taktyx playing the World of Warcraft

I-129F

September 26, 2007- I-129F Package sent by courier to CSC

September 28, 2007- Received at CSC

October 29, 2007- NOA1 hardcopy arrives!

February 5, 2008- NOA2!

April 23, 2008- Medical

April 22, 2008- Interview!

April 26, 2008- POE Edmonton

June 5, 2008- Legal wedding

October 11, 2008- Wedding ceremony with family

AOS

December 6, 2008- AOS package mailed

December 8, 2008- Package received

December 15, 2008- Check cashed! WOOHOO!

December 22, 2008- All 3 NOA1's received

January 5, 2009- I-485 transferred to CSC. Here's hoping for no interview!

January 14, 2009- Biometrics

February 23, 2009- EAD and AP received in the mail, dated Feb 14th.

April 23, 2009- Welcome to the United States Letter arrives. Card to follow.

June 1, 2009- GC received in mail. Approval date 04/09/09

Done with USCIS until 04/2011!

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Germany
Timeline

Hm, I posted this before and it seems it got lost....

Phil, I seriously think you shouldn't leave the US before filing for AOS and receiving your Advance Parole documents. The TN is a non-immigrant visa and even it has a reentry option (which my J-1 had, too), I was told by my attorney that every time you enter the US you have to not have an intent to immigrate when you use this kind of visa for the admission.

As you said you already planned the wedding and even the AOS procedure afterwards, leaving the US and reentering before the wedding date is definitely violating this rule. And as it would happen so close to the wedding day, the AO will probably interrogate you guys about that and chances are that you could get denied the AOS and they might charge you with visa fraud on your last admission which then will get you into real trouble.

If you can somehow avoid this trip, just avoid it and wait some months until you get the AP docs.

Torsten.

Edited by MacPara

08/25/2006 US entry on J-1, stating INA212(e) does NOT apply

06/10/2008 (0) filed for Adjustment of Status: I-130, I-485, I-131, I-765 through attorney

11/12/2008 (155) Interview at local USCIS office, recommended for approval by AO, I-485 and I-130 touched - GC production ordered

11/22/2008 (165) GREEN CARD ARRIVED!

08/17/2010 (-) mailed package I-751 for Removal of Condition to CSC

08/23/2010 (0) package received by CSC, I-797C, NOA-1 (mailed on 08/25)

12/18/2010 (117) new GC received, mailed 12/16

08/13/2011 (-) filed N-400 at Phoenix lockbox

08/18/2011 (5) NOA sent

09/13/2011 (31) Biometrics appointment

09/19/2011 (37) Interview Appointment Notice

10/31/2011 (79) Interview, recommended for approval

12/02/2011 (111) Oath Ceremony - US Citizen

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Canada
Timeline

http://www.canuckabroad.com/forums/canadia...he-usa-vf4.html

Might get some more answers on the above site, as that site is geared more towards TN visas!

Canadians Visiting the USA while undergoing the visa process, my free advice:

1) Always tell the TRUTH. never lie to the POE officer

2) Be confident in ur replies

3) keep ur response short and to the point, don't tell ur life story!!

4) look the POE officer in the eye when speaking to them. They are looking for people lieing and have been trained to find them!

5) Pack light! No job resumes with you

6) Bring ties to Canada (letter from employer when ur expected back at work, lease, etc etc)

7) Always be polite, being rude isn't going to get ya anywhere, and could make things worse!!

8) Have a plan in case u do get denied (be polite) It wont harm ur visa application if ur denied,that is if ur polite and didn't lie! Refer to #1

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Canada
Timeline

You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

I'm just a wanderer in the desert winds...

Timeline

1997

Oct - Job offer in US

Nov - Received my TN-1 to be authorized to work in the US

Nov - Moved to US

1998-2001

Recieved 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th TN

2002

May - Met future wife at arts fest

Nov - Recieved 6th TN

2003

Nov - Recieved 7th TN

Jul - Our Wedding

Aug - Filed for AOS

Sep - Recieved EAD

Sep - Recieved Advanced Parole

2004

Jan - Interview, accepted for Green Card

Feb - Green Card Arrived in mail

2005

Oct - I-751 sent off

2006

Jan - 10 year Green Card accepted

Mar - 10 year Green Card arrived

Oct - Filed N-400 for Naturalization

Nov - Biometrics done

Nov - Just recieved Naturalization Interview date for Jan.

2007

Jan - Naturalization Interview Completed

Feb - Oath Letter recieved

Feb - Oath Ceremony

Feb 21 - Finally a US CITIZEN (yay)

THE END

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Filed: Other Country: Canada
Timeline
You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

Ok... so I'm getting conflicting answers:

1) My Visa is a non-immigrant intent visa. If I leave the country and come back in on the same visa with immigrant intent I'm committing fraud and this will be caught when I apply to adjust my status. So the problem won't be when I re-enter the country but when I apply for AOS 2 weeks later (after the wedding).

2) Since I applied for the Visa in October and was issued the visa without a problem that Visa is good until I apply for AOS. Technically I could leave and come back in the country every day until the wedding date, at which time I'd apply for AOS and have to wait for my AP.

I'm just confused as to which one it is? I'm going to try that other board that was posted with this same question.

Meet in D.C.: Nov 2005

Start Dating: March 2006

Moved down (on TN-1): April 2007

Engaged: July 2008

Married: 03/21/2009

Mailed AOS 04/11/2009

Package received 04/13/2009

Checks Cashed: 4/20/2009

NAO-1: 4/20/2009

Biometrics: 5/9/2009

Advance Parole Issued: 5/20/2009 (Grandma's Funeral, hence why I got it so quickly)

EAD Issued: 5/20/2009

GC Interview: 8/11/2009

Temp GC Issued: 8/11/2009

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Canada
Timeline
You are fine since you are on a TN status. You have not applied for AOS so there is nothing to worry about. As long as you have the TN status you can come and go as much as you like. Nothing will be mentioned of the upcomming wedding and there won't be any questions to you about is as you are on a valid status. This applies to people that are on non-immigrant visas as well, as long as those people have their proper visa (or staus depending on the type) then there is nothing to worry about.

After you get married and file for AOS, then you will not want to travel anywhere until the AP document comes in which will allow you to leave the country...

Ok... so I'm getting conflicting answers:

1) My Visa is a non-immigrant intent visa. If I leave the country and come back in on the same visa with immigrant intent I'm committing fraud and this will be caught when I apply to adjust my status. So the problem won't be when I re-enter the country but when I apply for AOS 2 weeks later (after the wedding).

2) Since I applied for the Visa in October and was issued the visa without a problem that Visa is good until I apply for AOS. Technically I could leave and come back in the country every day until the wedding date, at which time I'd apply for AOS and have to wait for my AP.

I'm just confused as to which one it is? I'm going to try that other board that was posted with this same question.

Yes, conflicting answers.

The reason for that is that no one here really knows (what the actual legal implications are).

I will give you an example I know of with regard to a TN visa and adjusting status.

Someone I know worked in the U.S. for around 8 years on a TN visa. During that time his wife found out she had a claim to U.S. citizenship, applied for documentation on this and received it.

They went back to Canada - as they did every year, to renew the TN. The last time they did the renewal they knew full well that they were going to apply for his AOS when they returned to the U.S. Is that visa fraud? He had a visa approved to say he could be in the U.S. working - does a plan to adjust status negate that?

I will be interested to know what you find out.

Oh and his AOS was successful, no problems and he now has his green card.

Edited by trailmix
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Hm, I posted this before and it seems it got lost....

Phil, I seriously think you shouldn't leave the US before filing for AOS and receiving your Advance Parole documents. The TN is a non-immigrant visa and even it has a reentry option (which my J-1 had, too), I was told by my attorney that every time you enter the US you have to not have an intent to immigrate when you use this kind of visa for the admission.

As you said you already planned the wedding and even the AOS procedure afterwards, leaving the US and reentering before the wedding date is definitely violating this rule. And as it would happen so close to the wedding day, the AO will probably interrogate you guys about that and chances are that you could get denied the AOS and they might charge you with visa fraud on your last admission which then will get you into real trouble.

If you can somehow avoid this trip, just avoid it and wait some months until you get the AP docs.

Torsten.

Actually, Phil is planning a trip to Canada (and return to US) prior to the marriage.

It's technically legal and doesn't require AP....but he does run the risk of running into a CBP official who may deny him entry because of his marriage intent. Basically, he should not volunteer that info.

2005/07/10 I-129F filed for Pras

2005/11/07 I-129F approved, forwarded to NVC--to Chennai Consulate 2005/11/14

2005/12/02 Packet-3 received from Chennai

2005/12/21 Visa Interview Date

2006/04/04 Pras' entry into US at DTW

2006/04/15 Church Wedding at Novi (Detroit suburb), MI

2006/05/01 AOS Packet (I-485/I-131/I-765) filed at Chicago

2006/08/23 AP and EAD approved. Two down, 1.5 to go

2006/10/13 Pras' I-485 interview--APPROVED!

2006/10/27 Pras' conditional GC arrives -- .5 to go (2 yrs to Conditions Removal)

2008/07/21 I-751 (conditions removal) filed

2008/08/22 I-751 biometrics completed

2009/06/18 I-751 approved

2009/07/03 10-year GC received; last 0.5 done!

2009/07/23 Pras files N-400

2009/11/16 My 46TH birthday, Pras N-400 approved

2010/03/18 Pras' swear-in

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As long as the LORD's beside me, I don't care if this road ever ends.

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So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).

2005/07/10 I-129F filed for Pras

2005/11/07 I-129F approved, forwarded to NVC--to Chennai Consulate 2005/11/14

2005/12/02 Packet-3 received from Chennai

2005/12/21 Visa Interview Date

2006/04/04 Pras' entry into US at DTW

2006/04/15 Church Wedding at Novi (Detroit suburb), MI

2006/05/01 AOS Packet (I-485/I-131/I-765) filed at Chicago

2006/08/23 AP and EAD approved. Two down, 1.5 to go

2006/10/13 Pras' I-485 interview--APPROVED!

2006/10/27 Pras' conditional GC arrives -- .5 to go (2 yrs to Conditions Removal)

2008/07/21 I-751 (conditions removal) filed

2008/08/22 I-751 biometrics completed

2009/06/18 I-751 approved

2009/07/03 10-year GC received; last 0.5 done!

2009/07/23 Pras files N-400

2009/11/16 My 46TH birthday, Pras N-400 approved

2010/03/18 Pras' swear-in

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As long as the LORD's beside me, I don't care if this road ever ends.

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Filed: Other Country: Canada
Timeline
So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).

So basically we're saying that I can go across the border and so long as I don't (a) tell them straight up it was for a bachelor party and (B) they don't directly ask me if I have an intent to immigrate or apply for AOS it should be ok?

This helps in another regard: My grandma is sick, had a bad stroke not too long ago. I'm concerned that if she dies before the wedding it would hurt my AOS claim (I'm also worried for her health but this forum isn't a 'my grandma is sick' forum).

Meet in D.C.: Nov 2005

Start Dating: March 2006

Moved down (on TN-1): April 2007

Engaged: July 2008

Married: 03/21/2009

Mailed AOS 04/11/2009

Package received 04/13/2009

Checks Cashed: 4/20/2009

NAO-1: 4/20/2009

Biometrics: 5/9/2009

Advance Parole Issued: 5/20/2009 (Grandma's Funeral, hence why I got it so quickly)

EAD Issued: 5/20/2009

GC Interview: 8/11/2009

Temp GC Issued: 8/11/2009

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Filed: Citizen (pnd) Country: Canada
Timeline

Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

I'm just a wanderer in the desert winds...

Timeline

1997

Oct - Job offer in US

Nov - Received my TN-1 to be authorized to work in the US

Nov - Moved to US

1998-2001

Recieved 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th TN

2002

May - Met future wife at arts fest

Nov - Recieved 6th TN

2003

Nov - Recieved 7th TN

Jul - Our Wedding

Aug - Filed for AOS

Sep - Recieved EAD

Sep - Recieved Advanced Parole

2004

Jan - Interview, accepted for Green Card

Feb - Green Card Arrived in mail

2005

Oct - I-751 sent off

2006

Jan - 10 year Green Card accepted

Mar - 10 year Green Card arrived

Oct - Filed N-400 for Naturalization

Nov - Biometrics done

Nov - Just recieved Naturalization Interview date for Jan.

2007

Jan - Naturalization Interview Completed

Feb - Oath Letter recieved

Feb - Oath Ceremony

Feb 21 - Finally a US CITIZEN (yay)

THE END

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Filed: Other Country: Canada
Timeline
Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

THANK YOU!

This was also bugging me because I just realized we did the same thing over christmas break. We crossed the border at the same time and everything when we went to my parents for the holidays.

Meet in D.C.: Nov 2005

Start Dating: March 2006

Moved down (on TN-1): April 2007

Engaged: July 2008

Married: 03/21/2009

Mailed AOS 04/11/2009

Package received 04/13/2009

Checks Cashed: 4/20/2009

NAO-1: 4/20/2009

Biometrics: 5/9/2009

Advance Parole Issued: 5/20/2009 (Grandma's Funeral, hence why I got it so quickly)

EAD Issued: 5/20/2009

GC Interview: 8/11/2009

Temp GC Issued: 8/11/2009

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Canada
Timeline
Since I have been on the TN status (it is not a visa, there is no such thing as a TN visa) process through marriage to citizenship I do know how the process is. You are on a TN Status and it is active. When you cross the border you are not married. It doesn't matter if you are going to marry down the road or not, you are on a TN status which is your authorized document for being allowed back into the US to work.

Always when crossing the border you never regardless of your status you only answer what is asked from you. They will want to see your proper documents visa or status or green card etc. You show them your TN, they may ask you a few questions like where you work, how long you've been away etc. They are not going to ask randomly if you are getting married at any time in the near future at all.

I was with my girlfried before we got married when we flew to Canada for a trip. Both of us together at the checkpoint at the airport, she hands in her US passport, I had in my TN status. The person can clearly see we're dating (but not married since no rings) and boom that's it we're in.

The reason is because I was still on a valid status. Nothing changes until you actually get married. The only way fraud would be commited would be if you attempted to apply for a TN status AFTER you were already married to your US spouse...

Hi Warlord,

In fact that is what USCIS calls it - a 'visa'.

When I posted before, btw, I wasn't taking a dig at you warlord - just want to clarify that.

What I am saying is that I don't think that anyone here can tell the OP - with 100% certainty, that if he leaves the U.S. now, that he will be allowed back in. My understanding is that the TN holder must maintain nonimmigrant intent throughout their stay. The OP cannot claim this now.

Sure he can probably go back to Canada for a visit and probably he won't have any trouble at the border - but what if he does, you can't really take responsibility for that, so i'm unclear why you would advise that he do this? What if they don't let him back in - then he and his fiancee/wife will be separated for a year while he does the processing in Canada.

Phil, this looks like a pretty good site you might want to have a look at.

1. TN Visa Professionals & Nonimmigrant Intent.

A TN visa professional must maintain bona fide nonimmigrant intent throughout the TN professional's stay in the United States. The regulations provide that a TN applicant cannot intend to establish permanent residence in the U.S. and must satisfy immigration officials that the proposed stay is temporary and has a finite end. See 8 C.F.R. § 214.6 B. This means the TN professional must intend to depart the U.S. at the conclusion of the TN employment. At the moment a Canadian citizen applies for a new TN or an extension of or change to TN status, the applicant cannot intend to remain permanently in the U.S. after the TN is approved.

Edited by trailmix
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So, my advice to Phil is: go for the trip, and don't volunteer the info about the marriage (and don't carry incriminating documents back into US such as wedding invites) to the CBP official (presumably at a PFI).
So basically we're saying that I can go across the border and so long as I don't (a) tell them straight up it was for a bachelor party and (B ) they don't directly ask me if I have an intent to immigrate or apply for AOS it should be ok?
As warlord answered these, ...

This helps in another regard: My grandma is sick, had a bad stroke not too long ago. I'm concerned that if she dies before the wedding it would hurt my AOS claim (I'm also worried for her health but this forum isn't a 'my grandma is sick' forum).
No bearing whatsoever; you need to be in the US to file an AOS.

2005/07/10 I-129F filed for Pras

2005/11/07 I-129F approved, forwarded to NVC--to Chennai Consulate 2005/11/14

2005/12/02 Packet-3 received from Chennai

2005/12/21 Visa Interview Date

2006/04/04 Pras' entry into US at DTW

2006/04/15 Church Wedding at Novi (Detroit suburb), MI

2006/05/01 AOS Packet (I-485/I-131/I-765) filed at Chicago

2006/08/23 AP and EAD approved. Two down, 1.5 to go

2006/10/13 Pras' I-485 interview--APPROVED!

2006/10/27 Pras' conditional GC arrives -- .5 to go (2 yrs to Conditions Removal)

2008/07/21 I-751 (conditions removal) filed

2008/08/22 I-751 biometrics completed

2009/06/18 I-751 approved

2009/07/03 10-year GC received; last 0.5 done!

2009/07/23 Pras files N-400

2009/11/16 My 46TH birthday, Pras N-400 approved

2010/03/18 Pras' swear-in

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As long as the LORD's beside me, I don't care if this road ever ends.

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I think the intent to marry and adjust status trumps the TN. This is skating on the hairy edge of fraud if you ask me. That you can do it and get away with it doesn't mean that it is within the spirit of the law.

Sent I-130 to VT 25-Oct-2007

I-130 Moved to California 6-August-2008

My petition has been in 3 states (1, twice) in 9 months!

Rec'd by CSC 8/9, touched 8/11, 8/12, 8/15, 8/20, 8/25

Approved Tuesday, 25-August-2008

10 months since we mailed the petition

Rec'd NVC 9/3, Invoice Generated 9/10, DS-3032 emailed 9/11.

Rec'd AOS invoice 9/15, paid online 9/15, Accepted as Paid 9/18, mailed I-864EZ 9/19

IV Invoiced 9/18, paid online 9/19, Accepted as paid 9/22

DS-230 sent 10/2

Case complete @NVC 10/8 - 11 months, 1 week and 6 days

Interview in Montreal December 18, 2008 - scheduled 1 year, 1 week and 3 days after the start of our journey. Takes place 1 year, 1 month, 3 weeks and 2 days after the start...

[X] Passed [ ] Failed Interview

Thursday, April 2, 2009 Activated Visa - 1 year, 5 months, 1 week and 1 day

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