More Ambiguity, The New I-129F, WHAT About the Mandatory Beneficiary Disclosures?

[kitkat1 5]

Sorry, I know this is WAY off topic but it's for Mephys and Caladan.

In case you didn't see this article in the Wall Street Journal - I think you'll enjoy it! I thought it was super interesting and it was the first I had ever heard of these games.

To Find a Mate,

Raid a Dungeon

Or Speak Like an Elf

Flirting in Online Games

Can Lead to Offline Love;

Lord Krideldek's Ploy

By DAVID KESMODEL

June 9, 2006; Page A1

Over the years, Mark Brown searched for Ms. Right in all the usual places: at parties, work functions and the occasional singles bar. He ended up meeting her inside a videogame.

Mr. Brown was sitting at his computer in England, controlling a character named Mighty Thud in an online game called City of Heroes. Across the ocean in Maryland, Jody Petroff guided a figure named Molecule Witch.

The two superhero characters began chatting after each survived a brutal ambush by villains. "We seemed to work on the same wavelength," the 38-year-old Mr. Brown says of the couple's first online exchange of text messages. "There was something that first night, something about the personality behind the keyboard."

Soon, the two, who both are computer programmers, were playing and chatting online every day. Three days ago, they were married. "Meeting Mark was completely surprising, but he's the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me," says Ms. Petroff, 37.

The pair is among those who have fallen in love while playing so-called massively multiplayer online games, known as MMOGs. In them, enthusiasts spend hours killing monsters and completing quests in ever-changing virtual worlds.

Several videogame publishers report that dozens of their players have tied the knot after meeting inside their games. Sometimes they take the leap after first staging an in-game wedding. Sony Online Entertainment, a unit of Sony Corp., says at least 20 couples have wed after meeting in its medieval fantasy games EverQuest and EverQuest 2. That includes the company's senior vice president of legal affairs, Andrew Zaffron, and his wife.

Nick Yee, a Ph.D. student in the Department of Communication at Stanford University who studies online games, found in a survey earlier this year that 29% of women players and 8% of men said they had gone on to date someone they met in a game. He says the games are filled with scenarios that shed light on players' personalities. A risky raid on a dungeon, for example, can reveal whether someone is a team player. "These are trust-building exercises," he says. Players "are constantly having to make decisions like, 'Do I run out and save myself or help the others survive?' " Situations that reveal so much about someone's character are less common in the real world, he thinks.

Yankee Group, a Boston technology-research firm, estimates that MMOGs, which can be played simultaneously by thousands of people using the Internet, are played by 25 million to 30 million people world-wide.

Susan Bard, 26, says she wasn't looking for love when she began playing EverQuest 2. But then her character met Randall Zenonian's early last year.

Mr. Zenonian, a U.S. Navy corpsman who was stationed in Everett, Wash., had his character, Lord Krideldek, approach Ms. Bard's Koloara to discuss her interest in a leadership position in a guild, or group of players.

Ms. Bard, who lived in York, Pa., says she was impressed by Mr. Zenonian because he was an avid role player. She also liked the care he took with his typing. Unlike a lot of players, she says, "he made sure his sentences weren't choppy."

The next time she logged on to play, Ms. Bard began having her character flirt with Mr. Zenonian's. Though she had an actual boyfriend, she saw the in-game flirtation as harmless. Then Mr. Zenonian did something else she found attractive: He learned how to speak a special language unique to her type of character -- an elf. "As a chick, that impressed me all to heck," Ms. Bard says.

Mr. Zenonian was struck by Ms. Bard's intelligence. "The game is very complex," the 29-year-old says, but "I didn't have to spend a lot of time explaining things to her."

Soon, they were playing daily and sending each other instant messages. They exchanged photographs and, about four months after meeting in the game, they talked on the phone for six hours. Before long, Ms. Bard says, she got an ultimatum from her boyfriend: Stop playing with Mr. Zenonian or it's over.

Ms. Bard chose Mr. Zenonian, who had by then been transferred to a naval base in Guam. She was living with her parents and working at a grocery store. So she flew to Guam, about 8,000 miles from home, and has been living with Mr. Zenonian since September. "I didn't question it because it felt right," Ms. Bard says.

David Knife, 32, fell in love with his wife, Tracy, 30, while playing Anarchy Online, a science-fiction game. Mr. Knife says he was impressed by her leadership skills. Ms. Knife, who in the game led a guild of about 50 players, "was very motherly to many of the players," he says. "It's the way she controls everyone by still being very nice."

Mark Brown and Jody Petroff met while playing as Mighty Thud and Molecule Witch in the online game City of Heroes.

He also liked her use of emoticons, the symbols in text messages that denote kisses or hugs, among other things. "She was very forward in the game, especially with me," he says.

In August 2004, about six months after they met in the game, her character proposed to Mr. Knife's. That prompted Mr. Knife to inquire about a possible relationship outside the game, even though he is an Australian, who was living in Melbourne, Australia, and she lived in Red Lion, Pa., where she was raising a daughter after a divorce.

They started talking regularly using an online voice-chat service and said "I love you" before they met in person. "We have very similar personalities," says Ms. Knife. "We're both kind of computer geeks." In February last year, Mr. Knife flew to Pennsylvania for a two-week vacation and proposed on Valentine's Day.

"I have to remember two wedding days and two engagement days," says Mr. Knife. The couple were married in January and live in Red Lion.

Terri Perkins, a spokeswoman for Funcom NV, the Norwegian publisher of Anarchy Online, says the company knows of more than 20 couples who married after meeting in the game, which was launched in June 2001. Because so many players like to stage in-game weddings, she says, the company has assigned about a dozen volunteer players to help arrange the weddings, which can include fireworks displays at the ceremony. She adds that Funcom's director for the game, Morten Byom, met his wife while playing a text-based precursor to today's multiplayer games, called GrimneMUD, in the 1990s.

Many couples continue to play the same games that brought them together long after they have moved in together.

Mr. Brown and Ms. Petroff play NCsoft Corp.'s City of Heroes on separate computers in their house in Bowie, Md. They say they have an uncanny knack for attacking the same villain -- at just the right moment. "Our play styles go so well together," Ms. Petroff says. "There's just no stopping us."

[Caladan 19]

Haha! I don't think we'll go so far as an in-game wedding (we're sort of just a boring long distance couple these days), but ya gotta root for any couple where the guy is called Mighty Thud.

[Imbra2005 0]

Just to clear up any confusion, here is the exact language of IMBRA's definition of marriage broker. It's not at confusing as some here would have you believe:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

[BlueSurf 0]

exception - of a "cultural" nature...???

So, those sites that cater to the foreign culture of ____________ (insert: Eastern Europe, South America, Asia, or be even more specific) are exempt? The fact that I searched for a mate of a certain "culture" exempts us from this quicksand of a law?

Legalities are largely about being "precise", and providing people with clear parameters and protections. It is about splitting hairs. The drafters of IMBRA (IMO) failed terribly in their efforts to provide a law that gives clear direction that a court can enforce without hesitation. Nobody knows what is intended! No wonder the agency has had difficulty for so long...

[Vagina Journey 0]

Haha! I don't think we'll go so far as an in-game wedding (we're sort of just a boring long distance couple these days), but ya gotta root for any couple where the guy is called Mighty Thud.

Well that just made my night!!! Mighty Thud

[Lewis 0]

One of the bottom lines of this law is that someone somewhere sometime will have to decide which companies are classified as marriage brokers and which are not according to their interpretation of this vague definition. I wonder if this list is available for public perusal or if it even exists. It will be disappointing if it will be left up to the applicant to determine whether or not they used a marriage broker according to this definition without any assistance from our government in interpreting this law.

[Mephys 2]

Wow, its like if I was reading my own life story right there (sry out of topic again)

In fact, Mephys was my name in the game and he actually also proposed me in the game kneeling down while my character was wearing a wedding dress , one the many armor sold in the game auction house..

Funniest thing ever, he was talking naughty to me and did a "miss tell" that the other 40 people in the raid could hear on Teamspeak...

Oh well im pretty sure that we'll check NO on the petition.....

Edited June 14, 2006 by Mephys

[Barry2005 0]

I just wrote my "marriage broker" and they know nothing of IMBRA. So sorry for the rest of their clients(since March 6)they are are not obeying the disclosure laws....so they cannot get a fiancee visa?

[Jello 0]

I am not a lawyer, but I think everyone should probably just read the actual Act regarding IMBRA:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/ge...3402enr.txt.pdf

The IMBRA section starts on page 107. From what I have read, there is nothing here that says if the "Marriage Broker" does not comply with IMBRA the petitioners will be denied a visa. All it states is that if the "Marriage Broker" doesn't comply with the law, they (the "Marriage Broker") may be fined up to $25,000 or imprisoned up to 5 years. While not stated, I'm sure if a "Marriage Broker" repeatedly doesn't comply they will be prohibited from doing business inside the United States.

That being said, an immigration lawyer I spoke with a couple months ago indicated that for those that met through a "Marriage Broker" prior to March 6 will be "grandfathered in" as the law was enacted on March 6, 2006 and is not retroactive.

Of course, we won't ever really know for sure until someone goes through the process, but I am confident that for those of us who met through a "Marriage Broker" prior to March 6, 2006, we will not be affected. Will we need to answer the question? Yes, of course. But I think if it is clearly stated (repeatedly throughout the petition where appropriate) that you met prior to March 6, 2006, you should be fine.

[KaiserD 12]

The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity

whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

I am pretty sure that excludes most of us who met on message boards and such, as it indicates a business and/or an exchange of money.

The people who met on WoW I am a bit concerned for. WoW was blatantly not made for making marriages lol but it is a payment in exchange for contact with other people run by a business. Albeit a business that is making games and entertainment not bloomin' international marriages!

[Mephys 2]

The people who met on WoW I am a bit concerned for. WoW was blatantly not made for making marriages lol but it is a payment in exchange for contact with other people run by a business. Albeit a business that is making games and entertainment not bloomin' international marriages!

One thing though. We are paying to play a game, but there is no personnal information given anywhere to attract anyone.

that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals

you have to include the whole sentence, its not just about charging fees, its about chargin fees for..., thats my guess.

There is absolutely no informations in WOW, they dont refer anybody. Its up to you if you want to give info or not and there is nothing that tells you that "there is the description of this person, send him a a message if you are interested".

Ill try to ask about that before sending my K-1.

[Caladan 19]

exception - of a "cultural" nature...???

So, those sites that cater to the foreign culture of ____________ (insert: Eastern Europe, South America, Asia, or be even more specific) are exempt? The fact that I searched for a mate of a certain "culture" exempts us from this quicksand of a law?

Legalities are largely about being "precise", and providing people with clear parameters and protections. It is about splitting hairs. The drafters of IMBRA (IMO) failed terribly in their efforts to provide a law that gives clear direction that a court can enforce without hesitation. Nobody knows what is intended! No wonder the agency has had difficulty for so long...

"Cultural" nature, to my understanding (by reading the next clause), means something like in your or your fianceée's culture, marriages are arranged without the couple having met. IMBRA doesn't wish to burden, say, a registered matchmaker in Afghanistan or India, or somewhere where arranged marriage is common and everyone involved is aware of the risks and is practiced at avoiding them.

While the law isn't precise it's pretty clear that 'I like Asian girls' or 'I wanted a Russian bride' or "Man, Canadian carpenters are hot!' isn't what the law means by 'cultural' reasons. Where the IMBRA law is ambiguous is on the 'otherwise facilitate communication'; it's drawn broad so a site can't just change its masthead, or say 'we didn't provide *direct* contact information' and get around a law. But in one sense, laws don't mean anything until judges decide what they mean, and that doesn't happen without a challenge (like someone arguing that the NYT message board is a marriage broker.)

There's a lot of fear-mongering going around, and the fact is, until a court challenge or a USCIS directive, pretty much anyone's opinion is as good as another and those of us going through it soon get to be guinea pigs.

So, if you used a site purporting to find you a bride of a certain culture, IMBRA's probably going to call that a marriage broker, and not one for cultural reasons. So-called 'mail-order brides' are exactly what this law is targetting. But, depending on how the payment for the site was structured, the second clause of the law may indicate that your site isn't one of the ones targetted. This is just my read on it, and I'm not a lawyer (but it seems the lawyer don't have much of a clue now anyway.)

[Lewis 0]

Caladan, I agree with your train of thought.

Quote "There's a lot of fear-mongering going around, and the fact is, until a court challenge or a USCIS directive, pretty much anyone's opinion is as good as another and those of us going through it soon get to be guinea pigs".

The implementation of IMBRA now begins. Hopefully, as the process moves on more info will be dispersed to aid us all in our process. A calm and logical approach is best.

Thanks for the concise analysis.

[KaiserD 12]

Ill try to ask about that before sending my K-1.

Good idea, best wishes for a swifty approval

[Big Boss 0]

Hi,

How does this update to the law affect me......filed on june 5, 2006.........didnt use a dating service.

Thank You