5 immigrants convicted in NJ of plotting to kill GIs

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CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) - Five Muslim immigrants were convicted Monday of plotting to massacre U.S. soldiers at Fort Dix in a case that tested the FBI's post-Sept. 11 strategy of infiltrating and breaking up terrorist conspiracies in their earliest stages.

The men could get life in prison when they are sentenced in April.

The five, who lived in and around Philadelphia for years, were found guilty of conspiring to kill U.S. military personnel. But they were acquitted of attempted murder, after prosecutors acknowledged the men were probably months away from an attack and did not necessarily have a specific plan. Four defendants were also convicted of weapons charges.

...

Defense lawyers argued that the alleged plot was all talk—that the men weren't seriously planning anything and that they were manipulated and goaded by two paid FBI informants.

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Convicted were: Shnewer, a Jordanian-born cab driver; Turkish-born convenience store clerk Serdar Tatar; and brothers Dritan, Eljvir and Shain Duka, ethnic Albanians from the former Yugoslavia, who had a roofing business. A sixth man arrested and charged only with gun offenses pleaded guilty earlier.

...

But some Muslim leaders in New Jersey disputed that.

"I don't think they actually mean to do anything," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "I think they were acting stupid, like they thought the whole thing was a joke."

Jim Sues, executive director of the New Jersey chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said: "Many people in the Muslim community will see this as a case of entrapment. From what I saw, there was a significant role played by the government informant."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9...;show_article=1

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In a courtroom artist's sketch, Judge Robert Kugler, center rear, listens to closing arguments by attorney Michael Huff, right, in U.S. District Court in Camden on Dec. 16 in the case of five defendants charged with conspiracy to kill military personnel and attempted murder in a jihad-inspired attack on Fort Dix. The defendants, Shain Duka, bottom left, Eljvir Duka, Dritan Duka, Mohamad Shnewer, and Serdar Tatar listen.

Source: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/article/200...ONTPAGECAROUSEL

Edited December 22, 2008 by A.J.

[Nagishkaw 510]

But some Muslim leaders in New Jersey disputed that.

"I don't think they actually mean to do anything," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "I think they were acting stupid, like they thought the whole thing was a joke."

0k, if you say so.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I do have to wonder what the basis for the charges was. Granted that the general idea for their "plan" seems to have been fairly specific, but how is it determined that what they were talking about was a genuine attempt to orchestrate and carry out a terrorist attack?

Is that burden of proof not necessary under the terrorism laws?

[Jasman0717 9]

But some Muslim leaders in New Jersey disputed that.

"I don't think they actually mean to do anything," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "I think they were acting stupid, like they thought the whole thing was a joke."

0k, if you say so.

Acting stupid doesn't remove guilt

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I do have to wonder what the basis for the charges was. Granted that the general idea for their "plan" seems to have been fairly specific, but how is it determined that what they were talking about was a genuine attempt to orchestrate and carry out a terrorist attack?

Is that burden of proof not necessary under the terrorism laws?

From the original article (not in the pasted excerpt above):

... they were acquitted of attempted murder, after prosecutors acknowledged the men were probably months away from an attack and did not necessarily have a specific plan.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Wrong dialect

[Sister Fracas 5]

Honestly though, how stupid do you have to be to attack a friggin' Army base? I don't know if anyone told those guys or not, but they have, like, guns and berets and stuff.

It's the berets that scare me more than anything...

[DeadPoolX 9]

Honestly though, how stupid do you have to be to attack a friggin' Army base? I don't know if anyone told those guys or not, but they have, like, guns and berets and stuff.

Definitely not the brightest plan anyone has ever had. It reminds me of someone attempting to hold up a gun store.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I do have to wonder what the basis for the charges was. Granted that the general idea for their "plan" seems to have been fairly specific, but how is it determined that what they were talking about was a genuine attempt to orchestrate and carry out a terrorist attack?

Is that burden of proof not necessary under the terrorism laws?

From the original article (not in the pasted excerpt above):

... they were acquitted of attempted murder, after prosecutors acknowledged the men were probably months away from an attack and did not necessarily have a specific plan.

That's not my question though - I'm wondering how they determined "intent" in this case.

Edited December 22, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Doesn't planning for it demonstrate intent?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Doesn't planning for it demonstrate intent?

But they didn't "plan" exactly - the FBI assumed intent based solely on the testimony of criminal informants that they hired to befriend the defendants.

[Ban Hammer 14,587]

Honestly though, how stupid do you have to be to attack a friggin' Army base? I don't know if anyone told those guys or not, but they have, like, guns and berets and stuff.

It's the berets that scare me more than anything...

[Nessa 23]

i had to google beret

[Nagishkaw 510]