Note: Removing Inactive members from the Org Team

[rebeccajo 14]

personal attacks on members by organizers

If you see this please use the report tool. Myself and all the moderators will be notified. Personal attacks of any consequence are a violation of the TOS and under the new rules will potentially end up causing an Org Team member to be removed from that user group.

Well, anybody reading this thread saw one of the personal insults directed at me and can clearly see the difference in your response and theirs. I suppose it would be too much to ask of the moderators to remove from sight the personal attack posts or portions thereof while dealing with the attackers, but I think it would set a far better example than leaving them for all to read in perpetuity.

Anyway, thanks for your willingness to address the issue publicly. I'll look forward to a swift change in behavior from those who know or don't know who they are. For what it's worth, I never saw this as any sort of abuse of power. I see it as holding people to an appropriate standard, wrt the terms of service. Whether intended or not, the members see the organizers as examples of what is acceptable behavior.

Pushbrk, you need to learn that you reap what you sow. Remember what Ewok said above about being an adult? You certainly have no problem with beating people about the head for everything from their signature size to their ability to speak English. And all in the name of so-called 'straight talk'. Not to mention the fact that you seem to have a particular problem with females who might know a thing or two as evidenced last week by your joining in with some of the other little boys to have a go at me.

If you can't take it when people give it back to you, then maybe you better re-think your style.

Just for the record, the fact that I am an Organizer has nothing to do with the way I address you. I'd do the same if I were not. You are not a straight-talker. You are rude PLUS you give an entirely new meaning to the word 'pompous'. As long as you continue to be, you can expect to get it back.

This is a perfect example of a "personal" insult. It's not about an issue. It's about a person. As such it's out of line and IMO violates the terms of service. It also sets the example that such posts are accepted by the mods because they continue to allow such personal insults and attacks without admonishment. People may not like my direct style and they may "feel" put down by my pointed advice about how to have a successful visa process but you will not see me directly personally insulting them.

Disagreeing with a woman is allowed. If any boys "had a go at you" last week, it was because of what you wrote, not because a woman wrote it and anybody who wishes can compare the personal attacks in your posts to the disagreements about issues in mine. Of course, the Captain or any Mod is free to let me know if they have a problem with anything I do here. When and if that happens, I'll respond accordingly. In the meantime, it is my understanding it's not YOUR job to do so with insults and other personal attacks. If I'm wrong about this, I encourage the Captain to tell me so, here and now.

It's not up to me but if it were, your membership would be cancelled for blatant repeated violations of TOS.

Your 'according' responses are always that it is your right as an adult to speak straight forwardly. So don't give us all this nonsense about how would respond. Your response is ALWAYS that you have a right to say what you say, how you want to say it, and to whomever. You wouldn't change the way you speak to people around here no matter what Admin were to say to you. You are rude and condescending. And, you are not always RIGHT in the advice you offer to members either. But the bullying, swaggering manner in which you handle yourself gives off the aura that you are. It would be refreshing to have a conversation with you in the upper forums wherein you note that you actually learned something from others - I never see that. Rather I see 'sponge' responses from you wherein it's clear from whom and when you gained your knowlege, but fail to ever give them credit.

That's the difference between how things used to be around here than the way they are now. There used to be a team of individuals who had different expertise in different areas of the process and they worked together for the good of the site. Now we have one online 'expert' who thinks he knows it all, and wouldn't say thank-you to someone else for a post if his life depended on it.

You can call this an attack if you like. I prefer to keep discussions out in the open rather than via private message. That's what grown ups do. You need to grow up, be an adult and learn to deal with the consequences of your online personna.

Edited December 21, 2008 by rebeccajo

[pushbrk 13,915]

Either the TOS are terms of service or they are not. If they are, then they apply to all. If they don't apply to all, and/or if there is no consequence for violating them, then they are not terms of service. They are just empty words.

[rebeccajo 14]

Either the TOS are terms of service or they are not. If they are, then they apply to all. If they don't apply to all, and/or if there is no consequence for violating them, then they are not terms of service. They are just empty words.

Here's what's going to happen from now on, Mike.

Every time I see you be being a condescending, pushy, overbearing and overall mean individual, I'm going to hit the Report button.

Some things are worse than violating the TOS.....and one of them is just generally being miserable to the rest of the human race.

Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you that you can't 'help' people without making them feel horrible about it?

[Jenn! 918]

The bickering back and forth between the two of you does no one any good. You both obviously take issue with the other's "posting style", but both of you bring valuable contribution to the site. I don't suppose there's any chance you can agree to disagree and ignore each other's posts or do whatever it takes to put an end to the bickering that has disrupted many a thread? I'd just hate this to become a "last man standing" situation.

[pushbrk 13,915]

Either the TOS are terms of service or they are not. If they are, then they apply to all. If they don't apply to all, and/or if there is no consequence for violating them, then they are not terms of service. They are just empty words.

Here's what's going to happen from now on, Mike.

Every time I see you be being a condescending, pushy, overbearing and overall mean individual, I'm going to hit the Report button.

Some things are worse than violating the TOS.....and one of them is just generally being miserable to the rest of the human race.

Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you that you can't 'help' people without making them feel horrible about it?

Anybody with admin privileges to compare my profile comments and PM's to those of other members is encouraged to do so. Any moderator or admin has always been free to comment publicly or privately and is certainly encouraged to do so now. If personal attacks by organizers and/or general members are acceptable, then I suggest the TOS be modified to reflect the tolerance of such behavior. If not tolerated, then do something about it, so it ceases.

[rebeccajo 14]

The bickering back and forth between the two of you does no one any good. You both obviously take issue with the other's "posting style", but both of you bring valuable contribution to the site. I don't suppose there's any chance you can agree to disagree and ignore each other's posts or do whatever it takes to put an end to the bickering that has disrupted many a thread? I'd just hate this to become a "last man standing" situation.

Mike has made it clear that were it his choice, my account would be deleted.

He has drawn the line in the sand, not me.

[rebeccajo 14]

Either the TOS are terms of service or they are not. If they are, then they apply to all. If they don't apply to all, and/or if there is no consequence for violating them, then they are not terms of service. They are just empty words.

Here's what's going to happen from now on, Mike.

Every time I see you be being a condescending, pushy, overbearing and overall mean individual, I'm going to hit the Report button.

Some things are worse than violating the TOS.....and one of them is just generally being miserable to the rest of the human race.

Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you that you can't 'help' people without making them feel horrible about it?

Anybody with admin privileges to compare my profile comments and PM's to those of other members is encouraged to do so. Any moderator or admin has always been free to comment publicly or privately and is certainly encouraged to do so now. If personal attacks by organizers and/or general members are acceptable, then I suggest the TOS be modified to reflect the tolerance of such behavior. If not tolerated, then do something about it, so it ceases.

You just don't get it do you?

Does it ever enter your mind that what you regard as an attack on you is precipitated by HOW YOU ACT! Since when is it a TOS violation to call someone out on that? I mean, you don't have a problem with telling somebody they have trouble with English....................

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'd like to see no more personal attacks on members by organizers. That was the point. That's what reflects badly on the ownership, IMO. I'm disappointed you didn't see fit to address that issue.

He did address it.

Here's where.

1) If an organizer is suspended for anything beyond the most casual of items (we all do stupid little things now and again) their Organizer status will be removed for no shorter then 60 days before we will consider reinstating it.

[brnidokiegurl 1]

Either the TOS are terms of service or they are not. If they are, then they apply to all. If they don't apply to all, and/or if there is no consequence for violating them, then they are not terms of service. They are just empty words.

Here's what's going to happen from now on, Mike.

Every time I see you be being a condescending, pushy, overbearing and overall mean individual, I'm going to hit the Report button.

Some things are worse than violating the TOS.....and one of them is just generally being miserable to the rest of the human race.

Seriously, what the heck is wrong with you that you can't 'help' people without making them feel horrible about it?

Anybody with admin privileges to compare my profile comments and PM's to those of other members is encouraged to do so. Any moderator or admin has always been free to comment publicly or privately and is certainly encouraged to do so now. If personal attacks by organizers and/or general members are acceptable, then I suggest the TOS be modified to reflect the tolerance of such behavior. If not tolerated, then do something about it, so it ceases.

maybe if you both do this process, you both can be sent to your corners for a while

[rebeccajo 14]

maybe if you both do this process, you both can be sent to your corners for a while

LOL.

You have a point.

Look....I don't have a dog in this fight anymore really. I stayed around VJ after the physical separation between my husband and I ended because I wanted to pay back the help I had been given. I did that for a good long while and I enjoyed it. I made a lot of friends and I learned a lot.

After a while, it became more difficult for me to help people. It seemed the issue of my timeline was brought up more and more. I could enter a thread and say the most innocuous thing and quickly be told to GTFO. I'm fairly certain that if there is 'bad blood' between me and certain more-vocal members of VJ, nine times out of ten you will find the root-cause of the problem isn't what I said as much as it is my timeline.

I'll take self-responsibility at this point and note that about a year ago, I decided enough was enough and stopped trying to reason with persons who attacked me over the timeline. My tactic became to give it right back at the same intensity it was leveled at me. This might not be the best way to handle the problem, but it had just become to overwhelming to handle otherwise. Moderators cannot be on-board all the time, and essentially I had to stand up for myself.

I should note that this is not the problem between myself and pushbrk. He has never attacked me for my timeline. I do bring it up, however, because of the thread last week wherein he decided to line himself up with what I referred to as 'little boys'. Those gentlemen in question have specifically taken issue with my timeline in the past. I personally felt that for him to sit and 'gang up' with those persons was .....immature.

Anyway - I don't go to the upper forums much anymore because of the attacks. It's really just too difficult to try and help people who can't get past the fact I got lucky.

Edited December 21, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Sinergy 3]

I can honestly say WE DO GET WARNED when we break the TOS...and we can and do get suspended just like anyone else. i dont understand the constant whining about orgs. You give orgs no respect whats so ever, and now you want us to have to go by the same rules as a mod. It seems like you just want to continue to belittle, attack and insult ORGS with us not being able to say anything back as a regular member would be able to.

Capt,

No matter what an org does, we get attacked for it, bc we are not mods we were and are able to say something back, NOW bc pushbrk and "ofcorse" Mox says something, we have to hold our tongues and act as if we can not defend ourselves. This does not seem fair, if we have to act like a mod, we should get the respect as a mod. FROM ALL MEMBERS.

[rebeccajo 14]

I can honestly say WE DO GET WARNED when we break the TOS...and we can and do get suspended just like anyone else. i dont understand the constant whining about orgs. You give orgs no respect whats so ever, and now you want us to have to go by the same rules as a mod. It seems like you just want to continue to belittle, attack and insult ORGS with us not being able to say anything back as a regular member would be able to.

Capt,

No matter what an org does, we get attacked for it, bc we are not mods we were and are able to say something back, NOW bc pushbrk and "ofcorse" Mox says something, we have to hold our tongues and act as if we can not defend ourselves. This does not seem fair, if we have to act like a mod, we should get the respect as a mod. FROM ALL MEMBERS.

Hadn't thought about that one. Good point.

[Sinergy 3]

I can honestly say WE DO GET WARNED when we break the TOS...and we can and do get suspended just like anyone else. i dont understand the constant whining about orgs. You give orgs no respect whats so ever, and now you want us to have to go by the same rules as a mod. It seems like you just want to continue to belittle, attack and insult ORGS with us not being able to say anything back as a regular member would be able to.

Capt,

No matter what an org does, we get attacked for it, bc we are not mods we were and are able to say something back, NOW bc pushbrk and "ofcorse" Mox says something, we have to hold our tongues and act as if we can not defend ourselves. This does not seem fair, if we have to act like a mod, we should get the respect as a mod. FROM ALL MEMBERS.

Hadn't thought about that one. Good point.

Ive kept my mouth shut long enough, i guess ill be like others on VJ, and just tell on ppl for everything stupid

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Mods probably get abused the most

[Sinergy 3]

Mods probably get abused the most

that doesnt exclude that orgs get abused ALOT...thats my point