I just HAD to say something ...

[Fandango 1,440]

First of all, I am with Merc 100% here.

And if it really WAS abuse.....do any of you think the pattern will stop just cos some woman came up screaming at them? Think about it, if it was abuse, the intervention (imo) is lacking & ineffective....if it wasn't abuse, it's pure presumption & self0righteousness.

Sorry Gimy, but that's my take on it.

[keltic 1]

there is a difference between respect and fear... they are NOT the same thing:

respect: n.

A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.

The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.

Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

fear: n.

A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.

a child can respect a parent without FEARING them

[pax 1]

one of the downsides to the freedom we have here is that there are people being afraid, or thinking they dont have a right to stand up for those that are helpless... thinking that those that are being abusive or tyrannical have more rights than their victims...

Yes. I commented on this in another thread. People have become so afraid of offending or upsetting anyone that they refuse to stand up for what they believe in.

Force-feeding a child is not acceptable behavior, and as someone who worked as a babysitter and nanny for many years, any parent who saw me do something like that would have been appalled and would have fired my ###. I would never have forced a child to eat; I got my kids to eat simply by telling them that there would be no cookies or movies or what have you until all their vegetables had been eaten. I never had to raise my voice or use force. And, wouldn't you know it, those kids cleaned their plates after they realized that all their whining carried no water with me!

Again, I admire Monique for speaking her mind and for noticing what many people would not. If what she said is true, that behavior is, in fact, abusive to a child.

[ace13 0]

there is a difference between respect and fear... they are NOT the same thing:

respect: n.

A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.

The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.

Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

fear: n.

A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.

a child can respect a parent without FEARING them

You don't fear your parents. You fear the consequences of your actions (and you respect your parents )

[keltic 1]

since when is shoving something into a childs mouth to the point of causing choking NOT abuse? choking can cause DEATH.. hello?!?!?!?!?!?

and where did gimy say that she was screaming at the woman?

[Dixie_Peach 1]

merc... i can understand where you are coming from... i think that it tends to depend upon the situation...

if it was just yelling... i would not have stopped... but that poor kid was bleeding... and i felt i had to do something...

i am sure that gimy felt the same way... i would have said something to the parent out of earshot of the child... because apparently the child may/may not see enough of CONFRONTATIONAL situations at home...

everyone i think agrees here... that it is important to raise a child with love... and respect...

it is apparent that we all have different variations of what constitutes abuse...

[keltic 1]

there is a difference between respect and fear... they are NOT the same thing:

respect: n.

A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.

The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.

Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

fear: n.

A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.

a child can respect a parent without FEARING them

You don't fear your parents. You fear the consequences of your actions (and you respect your parents )

please refer to mercuryroads post above where he states that kids should fear their parents

[Fandango 1,440]

there is a difference between respect and fear... they are NOT the same thing:

respect: n.

A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem. See Synonyms at regard.

The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.

Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

fear: n.

A feeling of agitation and anxiety caused by the presence or imminence of danger.

A state or condition marked by this feeling: living in fear.

A feeling of disquiet or apprehension: a fear of looking foolish.

a child can respect a parent without FEARING them

I don't think that's entirely true...I was scared sh!t of my Dad. All he had to do was look at me sideways,hahah.

I think kids today are less controllable cos everyone's on this 'child abuse' kick. YES THERE IS LEGITIMATE CHILD ABUSE. But I got spanked from time to time growing up & that's not abuse imo.

[ace13 0]

since when is shoving something into a childs mouth to the point of causing choking NOT abuse? choking can cause DEATH.. hello?!?!?!?!?!?

and where did gimy say that she was screaming at the woman?

It sounds exaggerated. Thats all. She was stuffing food into the childs mouth so that she would choke.... I find that hard to believe. That would be attempted murder.

[mercuryroad 0]

this is the same thing that will keep someone from responding to a woman screaming 'rape'... women are taught to yell 'fire' because the chances of someone actually helping with that are much greater... too many people, in general, are afraid to be a good samaritan and help... they are afraid that they will be attacked, sued, whatever... instead, we should all be trying to protect each other... thats what community is

Force feeding a child and rape or a fire are two completely different things. Rape and fire require intervention and are accepted as bad things where people need help. Force feeding a child is not abuse for many people out there and the child's life was not in danger. This was a difference in parenting decisions/philosophy or just a frustrated moment.

Maybe we should have parent police following parents around all day everyday making sure they say and do the exact things out of the how to raise your child perfectly manual.

[Fandango 1,440]

since when is shoving something into a childs mouth to the point of causing choking NOT abuse? choking can cause DEATH.. hello?!?!?!?!?!?

and where did gimy say that she was screaming at the woman?

Ok change screaming to berating.

And if the mother was REALLY choking the kid by shoving food in her mouth...if the mother would endanger her daughter to that degree...do you think a stern talking to is gonna fix it?

Seriously. I'm curious.

[keltic 1]

since when is shoving something into a childs mouth to the point of causing choking NOT abuse? choking can cause DEATH.. hello?!?!?!?!?!?

and where did gimy say that she was screaming at the woman?

It sounds exaggerated. Thats all. She was stuffing food into the childs mouth so that she would choke.... I find that hard to believe. That would be attempted murder.

whether it was the mothers intent is not the point... the point is that gimy said the child WAS gagging... if the mother meant to cause that or not, it was what happened... unless you are going to try to say that gimy is lying

but, lets assume that the child was indeed gagging... are you going to say that you wouldnt feel that you should do anything to protect the child, because it is the mothers right to do it as long as she wasnt intending on that as the outcome?

[Ladylethal 12]

I've been tempted to say stuff to people as well, but I wouldn't want people intruding in my life (not that I would ever behave like that), so I never say anything. I'd get in the way if I saw someone beating the other up or something.

At the same time if my kid ever throws a tantrum in the street one good pinch and menacing look will be enough. Mom used that on us and we never threw fits asking for stuff again, and have grown up to be polite and well mannered. I'm against spanking even though a little pulling in the ear is not bad sometimes, to make your point (it doesn't hurt and gets the kid to realize you're really upset at their behaviour). Mom used the ear grabbing on me when I would leave stuff on the floor and not pick it up after she told me to a bunch of times. She'd then grab my ears and without a word she'd take me to the stuff I left on the floor. Very clear to me.

Screaming at your kid will only get them to scream louder. Doesn't work.

Spanking hard, to really hurt, will only get them to fear you but not to respect you. Doesn't work.

But being too soft on them will make them think they can get away with anything, so there's got to be some boundaries and some level of control.

[ace13 0]

exagerated.

Edited June 1, 2006 by ace13

[Fandango 1,440]

all in all i feel really good for standing up and speaking my mind ... it's who i am. but this was the first time that it was somewhere very public and with my children around. we had a family discussion about it afterwards. we explained that even though i said something ... the woman would not change and she would most likely continue to treat her daughter in that fashion.

See, this is the part that I'm focusing on. It's not about the kid at all...it's about you speaking YOUR mind. I'm sorry I don't mean to be argumentative here, but I cannot help it. Presumably you stepped in to help the child, but even you agree that you prolly didn't. So you feel good about something that was ineffective, but you got to speak your mind, so it's all good?

If you were THAT concerned that the child was being abused, why didnt' you call the police?

Edited June 1, 2006 by LisaD