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GaryC

An open letter to the political posters

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An open letter to all who discuss politics on this forum.

As anyone that follows the political threads here know that I am an unapologetic conservative. Whenever I express my views I am assaulted by a barrage of liberal platitudes. It seems that I am totally outnumbered. This makes me worry about the future of our country. With the “We are at fault and we should give up” attitude I see here we will eventually go the way of Europe. Most of the European countries have gone to socialism and I fear that we are heading that way also. This is not the America I know and love. But it seems that I am in the minority now at least on this forum. When it comes to vital issues like the war in Iraq, the war on terrorism, illegal immigration, taxes and the degrading of our moral values I am not one to compromise. In my view right is right and wrong is wrong. However, since it seems that a lot of the others that also frequent the political threads here have opposite views and I feel like I am just banging my head on a wall and pissing off others with my “ignorance”. So, I will no longer be posting or responding to any thread that has to do with politics. The liberals here can have it. I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

I know that there will be a flame war over this post and I will not be looked upon favorably because of it but I will not compromise my values. So therefore I will restrict myself to only the non-political postings from now on. This is a great forum for immigration issues and that is all it will be for me from now on.

Peace to everyone that I have sparred with, you are entitled to your viewpoints. That is also something that is American. Even though I totally disagree with you I would fight to the death for your right to state your views. I hope that we can eventually come together in this country and work towards restoring it to the values that our founding fathers envisioned.

Bye and good luck to you all.

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hmm

IMO, only by listening and learning from each other do we grow - and not joining a debate because you are in a minority doesn't seem to be 'in the spirit of coming together to change things'...

How can one fight against what you see as wrong if you refuse to engage? That seems a rather defeatist attitude to me.

When I was much younger I was TOTALLY opposed to the death penalty - but now I am a parent I am not - I still don't think its right in ALL cases but some, yeah - I will say fry em.

My views on many things have changed over the years - from being alive in this world, from visiting many MANY different cultures and counties, from listening to others, from the fact my own life has changed.

I still don't 'like' war but I now see it as a necessary evil - in fact my other half was once in the army, a fact he is proud of and with good reason - I see many things from both sides now whereas before I did not.

I have never shirked from giving my own opinion on things but sometimes that opinion has been changed by hearing the other side of the argument. To not give the other side as you feel it is 'banging your head against a wall' is deny people the chance to see how you have come to your ideas - perhaps they will agree perhaps not but that is what being free means - the ability to disagree.

I hope you change your mind about going, but nevertheless I wish you well :)(F)


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I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

Isn't this the easy way out? Sounds very cliche if you ask me.

Although there may be many who have jumped on the the liberal band wagon, there still exist high-minded liberals. How would you like it if I said all conservatives are racist? Sounds fair to me if you think it's accurate to say all liberals are stupid.

That's too bad that you've been intimidated away. I myself like to hear diverse opinions.

Edited by jenn3539

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Jay I think that was very well put :thumbs:

As you grow older your views do change, I think it is an automatic progression from being a "footloose and fancy free " teenager, to growing older, marrying, family and a change of lifestyle even.

You may always hold true to the same political party whilst not always agreeing with everything they advocate. Debate is good and should always be entered into bearing in mind that the other person/people have a right to their views as much as you do about yours.

Much of what I see in the UK now makes me despair and especially over Europe, from my point of view a sheer waste of money and time, a golden gravy train for the MEP's is how I see it. And yet in saying that there are bound to be some good ones, just not seen any as yet. However that is only MY opinion

It is an "unfortunate" state that we do find ourselves in when the "Politically Correct" brigade and some of their policies impact so heavily on our lives and more often than not for the worst.

I am a conservative and will probably always remain one, so do not leave this side of VJ Gary, yes, it is mainly for immigration but other topics "lighten the load" somtimes and after all, irrespective of what is said it is only debate and own opinions.

And if anyone has a go at you - callout the cavalry - I will stand with you :bonk::lol::lol:


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I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

Isn't this the easy way out? Sounds very cliche if you ask me.

Although there may be many who have jumped on the the liberal band wagon, there still exist high-minded liberals. How would you like it if I said all conservatives are racist? Sounds fair to me if you think it's accurate to say all liberals are stupid.

That's too bad that you've been intimidated away. I myself like to hear diverse opinions.

Ok, I was out of line there. Sorry. I am just very frustrated by some of the attitudes I am confronted with. I didn't mean any insult and I take that part back.

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If you are opposed to any political philosophy that requires someone to feel without thinking, how is it your entire support of the 'war on terror' seems to be based almost singularly on fear, anger and outrage?

Simply pointing out the historical context for why the world is the way it is, and the consequences of continuingwith the same policies that have created many of today's problems is a relatively objective criticism IMO, and a relevant one considering where we are right now.

Its easy to label someone as a means of dismissing their criticisms out of hand. Much more difficult to actually engage in honest debate, that doesn't involve trotting out slogans and party political talking points.

Most european countries are not 'socialist' BTW, they may have some socialised domestic policies, but that's very very different from a socialist government.

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I tend to stay away from many of the controversial threads here (but not always ... sometimes I just can't help myself). Very seldom do they lead to adult debate with rational discourse.... personal attacks seem to be the prevailing theme rather than debating the merits of opposing views. It seems that if they don't have a valid arguement to offer they attack opposing posters ... change the theme .... argue against points that were never made .... look for a partial sentence out of an entire paragraph that they can take out of context and attack even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with the point being made. Some will cite a single instance (often themselves) in an attempt to totally disregard a larger picture and sidetrack the entire post.

Now I'll sit back and watch the picking apart of sentences and personal attacks.

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And if anyone has a go at you - callout the cavalry - I will stand with you :bonk::lol::lol:

Noone's attacked him. He just threw his toys out of the pram because he can't handle diverse opinions. ;)

Here's the thread in question - you decide Israeli Vice Premier: 'Iran can also be wiped off the map'

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I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

Isn't this the easy way out? Sounds very cliche if you ask me.

Although there may be many who have jumped on the the liberal band wagon, there still exist high-minded liberals. How would you like it if I said all conservatives are racist? Sounds fair to me if you think it's accurate to say all liberals are stupid.

That's too bad that you've been intimidated away. I myself like to hear diverse opinions.

Ok, I was out of line there. Sorry. I am just very frustrated by some of the attitudes I am confronted with. I didn't mean any insult and I take that part back.

Apology accepted. Thanks for steppng up to that. For the record, I do not think all conservatives are racist, just making a point.

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I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

Isn't this the easy way out? Sounds very cliche if you ask me.

Although there may be many who have jumped on the the liberal band wagon, there still exist high-minded liberals. How would you like it if I said all conservatives are racist? Sounds fair to me if you think it's accurate to say all liberals are stupid.

That's too bad that you've been intimidated away. I myself like to hear diverse opinions.

Ok, I was out of line there. Sorry. I am just very frustrated by some of the attitudes I am confronted with. I didn't mean any insult and I take that part back.

Apology accepted. Thanks for steppng up to that. For the record, I do not think all conservatives are racist, just making a point.

Indeed they are not. But one of the biggest hurdles in this country is the fact that mainstream political thought can only be understood as part of two basic extremes. We never get honest debate from either political parties, on any issue, most of the time. They are too busy sermonizing and soundbiting each other.

Its very easy to label, because it allows you to dismiss any criticism that isn't compatible with a person's preconceived views, far less easy to engage in an honest (and polite) exchange of ideas.

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Indeed they are not. But one of the biggest hurdles in this country is the fact that mainstream political thought can only be understood as part of two basic extremes. We never get honest debate from either political parties, on any issue, most of the time. They are too busy sermonizing and soundbiting each other.

I think the above is an exceptionally good point, I am not conversant with other countries but I know in the UK that although we "have" 3 main parties, the reality is we have two and for the vast majority of time it definitely is just having a go at each other and blaming the last party that was in for the woes of the current government - even after 9 years. ;) (but that is another story :lol: ) And then it will be the turn of the next party to do the same. ;)


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CHERISH YESTERDAY, LIVE TODAY AND DREAM TOMORROW

Life is like a song... Sing it.

Life is like a challenge... Pursue it.

Life is like a sacrifice... Offer it.

Life is love... Enjoy it.

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umm, ok... :huh:


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I'm from the UK and one of the things I find very odd about US politics is that everything is so black and white. Every issue has to be strictly polarised and there seems to be no room for middle ground and all those shades of grey in between.

Over in the UK I was considered really quite right-wing, but I cannot ally myself with Bush and the Republicans here because the issue of separation of church and state bothers me too much. I cannot bring myself to ally with a party which would take away my personal freedoms and choices and legislates morality based on a literal interpretation of a religious philosophy.

There are a lot of people who hold those middle-ground views, and are primarily personally fiscally conservative but believe that there is a place for socialised policies also. There are people who believe that we should not have gone to war in Iraq, but believe that now we are there we must do the best we can to salvage the mess we have created. There are liberal people who are vehemently against illegal immigration, and others who can see the pain of splitting up families by deporting the undocumented members.

What may be definitively "right" or "wrong" in your book does not make it difinitively "right" or "wrong" in somebody elses, and maybe being open and receptive to reasoned debate (it does happen here on VJ sometimes, I've seen it!) might broaden your horizons a little. You don't have to toe the Republican party line to consider yourself a conservative, you just have to be able to justify your views with reason not "because I said so"s and vitriol.

You must post where you see fit Gary, but you know you are not alone in the views you hold and that you cannot paint everybody either blue or red. There are many purple people with very interesting views who can change your mind and perhaps temper down some of the more radical views at both ends of the spectrum to find a way we can all agree on to move forward and better this country.

:star:


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An open letter to all who discuss politics on this forum.

As anyone that follows the political threads here know that I am an unapologetic conservative. Whenever I express my views I am assaulted by a barrage of liberal platitudes. It seems that I am totally outnumbered. This makes me worry about the future of our country. With the “We are at fault and we should give up” attitude I see here we will eventually go the way of Europe. Most of the European countries have gone to socialism and I fear that we are heading that way also. This is not the America I know and love. But it seems that I am in the minority now at least on this forum. When it comes to vital issues like the war in Iraq, the war on terrorism, illegal immigration, taxes and the degrading of our moral values I am not one to compromise. In my view right is right and wrong is wrong. However, since it seems that a lot of the others that also frequent the political threads here have opposite views and I feel like I am just banging my head on a wall and pissing off others with my “ignorance”. So, I will no longer be posting or responding to any thread that has to do with politics. The liberals here can have it. I only hope that some posters here will start thinking with their brains instead of their feelings. Liberalism is the easy way out because it only requires you to feel and not think.

I know that there will be a flame war over this post and I will not be looked upon favorably because of it but I will not compromise my values. So therefore I will restrict myself to only the non-political postings from now on. This is a great forum for immigration issues and that is all it will be for me from now on.

Peace to everyone that I have sparred with, you are entitled to your viewpoints. That is also something that is American. Even though I totally disagree with you I would fight to the death for your right to state your views. I hope that we can eventually come together in this country and work towards restoring it to the values that our founding fathers envisioned.

Bye and good luck to you all.

I'm with you Gary. But you know what they say about arguing with idiots.......... :)


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



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